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the bottom line make sure you know what you are doing,you can make a fool out of yourself and your tribe or band by reproducing sacred items and wearing them
I believe that’s basically what we’ve all been saying since we found out what the necklace was for.
Maybe I missed something Linda,or miss read something Linda.
ON 11-7-03 you made a post for tom ,is the way I read it ,and in that post it says.
{I do not see anything wrong with making one of these but since you know what it is and understand its use then if you make one use it in the same way.}
I could of miss read something or took it the wrong way,but it sounded to me like tom was saying it was not only OK to make a SACRED necklace ,but ok to use it.
George
Hello All
Iam still having trouble posting if this goes up great! look for a lengthy reply on this Friday.
My first question is what makes this type of an article so sacred that it make you all squirm?
It is a strand of beads, reinterpreting a strand of beads with ribbons attached to it is not a sin, even you said George sacred medicine is applied to the object! That is what makes the object sacred not because it is a collection of beads and ribbons, we do not know the exact function of this necklace, and I intend to find out and will post it for all to read.
Yes make something simular if it please you, and wear it to memorials (if you know what it is) intended for; if it helps you; do it.
Name one piece of POw wow regalia used today that is not based on a “sacred object” , JUST ONE!
Everything at a pow wow has its origins in some sacred ceremony event, object, song or concept. This is how we are reinterpreting these objects in our time.!
The reinterpretation of the object is not a sin, its what makes it a viable part of Native American traditions , perhaps some do not understand that there is a ceremony that both gives and takes away the sacredness of an object.. and many objects were not given up as complete pieces the “medicine” was removed prior to doing that. WE do not know if that was done here or not.
Let me say in closing that I did not start this quest last week, I have studied both formally in informally with many people, after 30 years of study I have seen this over and over again, “IT’S SACRED” but no one can really come up with the goods why, just that it is, the reason is , is because it was taken through a chain of events that imbued it with a value, making a object does not make it sacred, it use does.
I had this explained when an elder showed me a snare that was made from the spine of a very large eagle feather, I said it’s sacred ! and he said it’s a snare! all the best ’til Friday Tom
Personally, I read the book about the adoption ritual, and know someone who’s been taking part in it, so I was very awed to see what appears to be a necklace used in it. It trips me out to think that these Ancestors we are chasing, who seem to be coaxing us to do just that, have a religion still going on. Not bad for an “extinct” people.
So personally, no, I wouldn’t make it, or have one, unless I was invited to by those involved. All this is pretty much getting to be religion to me that I couldn’t take lightly, or in a cerebral, academic way.
Ordinarily, I would agree with Tom about items we come across related to our ancestors, that no one living knows much of anything about. In that case our attempts to re-create them are perhaps the best way there is to memorialize or honor what once was. But, knowing what I do about this ceremony, it would be like taking something very special and alive and turning it into something common and dead. That would be pretty stupid, wouldn’t it?
Hello Its friday, I did track down the answers to my questions ; let me say if you look thro’ my postings there are suggestions where to look for ideas that may help develope a necklace that it is unique to the SAponi town people( tube beads etc from Occaneechie Town) but don’t replicate what is already out there, the Ohio people are especially interesting.
In the future I believe it best that we all do our own research and maybe one day come together to share, that’s it!
The goods are out there one just has to look in the direction to find them,,, enough to rebuild the total tribal styles. All The best Tom.
Two developments with this. I heard from a Mohawk acquaintance at Six Nations whose family has been involved with keeping culture alive for generations. I asked him if this is the necklace used in the Adoption ritual and he said no, it’s not. It’s a necklace used for adornment.
I also just heard from a lady at the American Museum of Natural History and she said,
The Tutelo shell necklace was collected by M. R. Harrington in 1907 from the few Tutelo living with the Cayuga on the Six Nations Reserve. The necklace is made of some kind of shell, but the purple quahog shell does not appear in it. Harrington called it wampum. Harrington mentions this necklace in a short article published in the American Anthropologist in 1909.
She’s offered to send me a copy of the article. She also stated that the Monaca appelation was in error and has now been removed.
I’ll report on the article when I’ve read it.
The lady at the museum wrote me back that the article she’s sending me by Harrington does identify the necklace as the one used in the adoption ceremony. Well, how are we going to go about sorting this out?
Hello , After considereing this and not being clear about the issues that I have presented, this is not to say that others have not, I believe that it should be up to the individual to deal with this, I said “if you know what it is respect it”, that means if you know what the original is all about then respect it, different views will always surface.
The one event I do not want to happen is that perhaps someone might make and wear one and be scolded for it, beads and ribbons do not make anything sacred the objects use does, find a place of balance and take a stand , all the Best Tom
When I looked at the picture of the necklace several thoughts came to mind. First I thought about the time and love that was put into making it. The hands that made this necklace belonged to a person who cared about their heritage. I don’t just see a necklace, I see a person. If only we could only treat each other with the same care and respect, what a kind place this world would be.
Coheelady
My last post; read what I have said it’s not disrespectful in any way, and I will not be posting my research on this forum in the future Tom
I have read all of these posts, I think if there’s no gain on Toms part he’s just sharing, letting averyone know, I think that was lost sight of. I’d like to know more about this
I edited my post above for one reason. I read it again realizing my words didn’t hold true to my personal Christian beliefs. As I was taught never to treat an object as sacred.
Coheelady
Merry Christmas!
I hope Tom reconsiders about sharing his research. I know I’d be at a loss without it. I know I never meant any disrespect towards his opinions. I’m still not comfortable with making a necklace even inspired by this one, till I know for sure it’s not something used for the ritual. That’s just me. The existence of the ritual is something super significant to me, and I don’t want to trivialize it. But that doesn’t mean that someone else dealing with it for their own reasons in their own way, is doing something I’ve judged wrong.
If my expressing my opinions was troublesome, my apologies. I did not mean them as a judgment on anyone else’s feelings or opinions.
Hello All, in the future when I find something that I feel is worthy of sharing with this group I’ll post the info to the site book or otherwise and the interested parties can make the effort to track the materials down.
Since not everyone is interested in material culture I feel that it be sited and that way each can come to thier own decision .
To all that sent emails thank you.
To all of the “Saponi Towners” have a Merry Xmas.
Tom
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