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I want to mention that the word “Tuckahoe” also sounds a lot like the word “Tutelo” especially when you hear the gutteral sound the second t was originally. Dennis Kniceley pronounced the word that was carried in his family, and that second consonant is halfway between a k and a t. If the ‘l’ sound was voiced with a lot of breath to it, it might go either way to a foreigner’s ear as an ‘l’ or an ‘h.’
Just curious but what Souian tribes lived along or near the James river? and also how many Souian tribes lived in Virginia? I was thinking 5 or 6.
I don’t know. What 5 or 6 tribes are you thinking of? That is a lot of tribes for such a small geographic area, isn’t it? That’s why I wonder if we have our history right. I am thinking something called “tribes” might really have just been cities or bands which were affiliated in a way the Europeans knew nothing about.
vance
Vance, I have read where there is a place along the james river called Tuckahoe. That is years ago I do not know about now. What I was thinking and it is just a thought was that maybe the Native Americans that lived near the place called Tuckahoe may have had the name applied to them because of where they lived. But I agree with Linda after considering the explination about the way you could say Tutelo and it sounding like Tuckahoe. As far as the Souian tribes I was just trying to think how many Lived in Virginia. Such as Tutelo,Saponi, Eno, Monacan?, there are some others but can’t remember at the moment. It dosen’t seem like they were are large group. But rather made up of a number of smaller groups. I would say that is why when the Natives from the north came down the Souian would join together to defend themselves.
Waitman,
There is still a Tuckahoe in VA. I was using mapquest the other day to determine the distance between the location of Rev Richard Sankey, a minister whose name may have been “borrowed” by my ancestor. He and his father-in-law had Presbyterian churches in many of the locations where Siouan tribes moved to. He ended up someplace near Hampden-Sydney, 70 miles from Tuckahoe, where he was a trustee for Hampden-Sydney College, a college begun to “educate boys on the frontier.”
Techteach
Thanks. I didn’t know all those goups lived on that one river, the James River. It is hard to imagine so many tribes living on that one river without thinking they all belonged to one tribe.
Most of what have read or seen implies usually a single tribe would control several rivers as well as a great deal of land they never lived on that was used solely as a hunting grounds. Perhaps Virginia was more densely populated.
Something is wrong with this picture that doesn’t jive with tribes in the rest of America. There are just too many tribes in Virginia. I say this looking at that link Techteach showed us the link to of Indinas in Virginia. “Enemies” are living too close to gether, tribes are too close together — some dynamic was at work that is not recorded, that we don’t know about.
Where are the hunting grounds for the Pamunkey, Pocahatas people? I can’t find enough hunting grounds for them, some one was living on them. Maybe they were living mostly on fish and small game like squirell and rabbit and off the abundance of the sea? Who controlled central Virginia, the Siouian or the Algonquin people?Siouans could hunt in the mountains, but the Algonquins had to have central Virginia just to survive I’d think. That’s the only place I can find where they could call a hunting grounds. Am I wrong? Am I missing something?
I believe some one was telling me there were five Monacan Towns, but I don’t know how to document this. Can anyone tell me the source of this?
Were those 5 towns — Eno Town, Monacan Town, Saponitown, Tutelo Town, and one other, I don’t know, maybe Saura Town?
Or were each of these Siouan groups represented by 3 to 10 or more towns, maybe 100 to 500 people each? Is there any way to know?
Perhaps the coastal Algonquins and inland Siouans were in a death struggle that was wiping them both oput at the time of the founding of the Jamestown colony?? Just a speculation . . .
vance
Techteach, Thanks for letting me know about Tuckahoe still existing. I wasn’t sure. Here in the town where I live there is a Tuckahoe road and also a Tuckahoe lake. My friends have a field day with that name and my ancestors being Tuckahoe(Tutelo).
Vance, It is unusaual to have so many different groups in one area. They would have had to bumped into each other pretty often. I was looking at a map showing where some of the Souian tribes were living back like in the 1600’s if I can locate it again i’ll let you know where it is. It was showing that the Tutelo were living in the western part of virginia around Salem,Va. And the Saponi living over toward the central part, and the occoneechi living down next to the Virginia and North Carolina border. I don’t know which one lived along or near the James maybe someone here on the forum can help with this question.
An interesting website for finding locations is the National Mapping Service, which is at http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnis/web_query.gnis_web_query_form
Below is several of them that I looked up, but if you are on the actual webpage, you can click on the name and it will give you several options for maps (including terraserver).
Stacey
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There were a total of 65 features for Tuckahoe. Virginia had 15 of them with the majority being in Henrico County…
Feature Name; St; County Equivalent Name; Type; Latitude; Longitude; USGS 7.5′ Map
Tuckahoe Elementary School; VA; Arlington; school; 385332N; 0770935W; Falls Church
Tuckahoe Creek; VA; Goochland; stream; 373353N; 0773914W; Midlothian
Tuckahoe Estate; VA; Goochland; locale; 373412N; 0773912W; Midlothian
Tuckahoe; VA; Henrico; populated place; 373524N; 0773324W; Bon Air
Tuckahoe Branch Henrico County Public Library; VA; Henrico; building; 373627N; 0773355W; Bon Air
Tuckahoe Church; VA; Henrico; church; 373604N; 0773458W; Bon Air
Tuckahoe High School; VA; Henrico; school; 373628N; 0773336W; Bon Air
Tuckahoe Island; VA; Henrico; island; 373338N; 0773711W; Bon Air
Tuckahoe Magisterial District; VA; Henrico; civil; 373614N; 0773558W; Bon Air
Tuckahoe Presbyterian Church; VA; Henrico; church; 373536N; 0773150W; Bon Air
Tuckahoe School; VA; Henrico; school; 373504N; 0773310W; Bon Air
Tuckahoe Shopping Center; VA; Henrico; locale; 373455N; 0773314W; Bon Air
Tuckahoe Village; VA; Henrico; populated place; 373552N; 0773726W; Bon Air
Tuckahoe Village Merchants Square Shopping Center; VA; Henrico; locale; 373555N; 0773727W; Bon Air
Tuckahoe Village Shopping Center; VA; Henrico; locale; 373556N; 0773720W; Bon Air
Feature Name; St; County Equivalent Name; Type; Latitude; Longitude; USGS 7.5′ Map
Sappony Cemetery; VA; Chesterfield; cemetery; 372215N; 0774636W; Mannboro
Sappony Creek; VA; Chesterfield; stream; 372002N; 0774749W; Mannboro
Sappony Church; VA; Dinwiddie; church; 365816N; 0773809W; McKenney
Sappony School (historical); VA; Dinwiddie; school; 365759N; 0773845W; McKenney
Sappony Cemetery; VA; Sussex; cemetery; 365643N; 0772709W; Stony Creek
Sappony Church; VA; Sussex; church; 365642N; 0772709W; Stony Creek
Sappony Creek; VA; Sussex; stream; 365701N; 0772610W; Stony Creek
Feature Name; St; County Equivalent Name; Type; Latitude; Longitude; USGS 7.5′ Map
Monacan Town (historical); VA; Albemarle; populated place; 380455N; 0782614W; Charlottesville East
Monacan High School; VA; Chesterfield; school; 372845N; 0773650W; Chesterfield
Monacan Hill; VA; Goochland; populated place; 373630N; 0774105W; Midlothian
Feature Name; St; County Equivalent Name; Type; Latitude; Longitude; USGS 7.5′ Map
Sauratown Estates (subdivision); NC; Rockingham; populated place; 362808N; 0794410W; Southeast Eden
Sauratown Mountain; NC; Stokes; summit; 362228N; 0802218W; King
Sauratown Mountain Church; NC; Stokes; church; 362158N; 0802051W; King
Sauratown, Township of NC; Stokes; civil; 362046N; 0802145W; King
Just thought I would share what I read today. I was in a library in Bath co. Virginia today and came across a book titled ” The peopling of Virginia” By R.Bennett Bean. It tells about the percentages of different groups of people living in certain areas in Virginia such as Germans and English and so forth. What caught my eye was on page 243. Mr Bean states that (the Indians from the Blue Ridge and beyond, called Cohees, were taller than the Indians of the Tidewater, called Tuckahoes, and the same applies to the white people of the two sections today.) This book was written in 1938. So Mr. Bean was aware that some Native Americans were called Tuckahoe and Cohee. I don’t know about one being taller than the other but I wasn’t concerned about that. Just that Tuckahoes were mentioned. He was mainly talking about people that were living in the 1700’s. If anyone could find this book in their library it would make interesting reading.
I had heard that inland “people” were one time referred as Cohees and tidewater people were referred to as Tuckahoes, but I didn’t know these people were referred to as “Indian”.
This was written in 1938 you said? Does Mr. Bean provides citation from earlier sources?
Thanks.
Vance
Vance, I didn’t read far enough to know. The next time I’m in that library I’ll take a closer look. I’ll also check and see if a library closer to home has one. He also mentioned that white people where called tuckahoe and cohee. He said that the white people called Cohee were people that cleared land,built houses and churches, were hardy frontiersmen, and Indian fighters.
The white people called Tuckahoe of Tidewater were men of the church of England with huge estates.
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