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I have recently discovered some information I didn’t know before on 2 fronts and would like to pass it along. If anyone has these surnames I’ll pass the details along. I had always been lookin in the south as that’s where we wound up. Maybe earlier tho, that was not the case, I don’t know. But recently that thought has been comin to me.
John Richey’s wife was a Mary Woods whose fathers (John Woods) wife was a Mary Dickson (We had thought it was Nancy Dickson, but there was a second Dickson girl (named Nancy, we presome a sister or Mary) who married a brother of John Woods).
I have recently found where these first Woods came from — in Berkeley Co, Virginia, early mid 18th century. They were on Holston Island, East Tn in mid/late 18th century, and by 1800 or thereabout to Indiana, where they married my Richey’s in 1817. Holston was a well known place where Cherokee and Caucasian traded goods in those days. I think a fort was nearby. My Dicksons married Woods while at Holston. John Woods mother’s maiden name was Hamilton.
Also I did write Airy Dixon and he replied, and paraphrasin, he was tellin me the Dixon surname and the Dickson surname were one and the same, implyin some documents might spell it one way and others another. I thought that, as I’ve seen Richey spelled 5 or 6 ways, sometimes the same people in the same documents spelled differently. He also gave me other addresses of people I might get more information. Thank you Linda for tellin me how to get in touch with him. This might be very helpful
I have been a little wary of information but leads I get on this web site always keep coming through as valid and traceable. Instead of reachin dead ends (like I did with many of the Cherokee genealogies from those undocumented/unrecognized Cherokee tribes in Arkansas and Missouri I used to be in contact with) — genealogical leads I get from this web site pan out, and don’t appear to be “made up” like many of those groups appear to me to me (and I might be wrong about that, that is as I see it, and my perception may be wrong). I don’t expect them to pan out, but they do, and so this amazes me. 🙂
vance hawkins
Vance;
In 1768 John Green had died in Mecklenburg county Va.. John was the son of Henry Green of old Lunenburg county Va..
Henry Green’s will; 10/15/1748, Lunenburg County Va. will book 1/477-8. Wife; Elizabeth, eldest son: John Green, second son: Henry Green, third son: Stephen Green, fourth son: Frederick Green. youngest son:Richard Green, daughter: Dorcas Green, sister-in-law: Abigail Green (wife of John Green- brother).
Will of John Green; 4/28/1768, Mecklenburg County Va. Will Book 2 page 339. Wife: Jane. Sons: James, Thomas, William. Daughters: Jane, Anne, Peggy, Sarah, Alse, Mary Callaham, Elizabeth Gee. Other: JOHN RICHEY (relationship not stated). Executrix: Jane Green. Witnesses: William Johnson, John Chambles, Joseph J. Dunham.
Although this is an earlier generation than what you are looking for, it appears that some of the Va. Richeys were acquainted with the Greens.
Dan Akin.
thank you!
I read some of what you said in another thread about Gardner Green. I’ve heard that name before from some Cherokee group in Missouri but don’t recall exactly where I saw it. But I believe he was a Chief of some reputation in Mo/Ar, wasn’t he?
I do have a Cherokee line also starting from near Holston River/Island. Surnames Guess, Looney and Brown, & related to other families These people went to NE Al (Brown’s Valley) then some went directly to Ar and others went to Winston Co, Lawrence Co, Al before goin to Ar. After to N. Tx and also IT (Choctaw & Chickasaw Nations). We still live in Ok. After the Richeys were in Indiana, they moved to Ark and married my Cherokee ancestors (Brown’s).
I have been told Cherokee in Ar married Blackfoot but I never really knew what that meant. I have gotten an education here.
vance
Interesting Vance, we both have families in two different locations. I have Ulm/Smiths in Berkeley, WV ca. 1810. Then these Ulms are in Wabash, IL and Sullivan (?) IN soon after. Maybe we ought to swap some more family photos. 😎
My husband has Woods cousins from Mecklenburg, Va. He’s a Green from Brunswick.
Vance:
There is no real evidence, found to date, that suggests that Gardner Green (my 6th greatgrandfather) was either a cherokee or a cherokee chief.
A majority of the claims often applied to my greatgrandfather are not based on historical or geneological fact.
I am working on the mystery surrounding this man and the Green family of old Lunenburg County Va.. I am also working on the Sizemore, Griffin, Jackson, Vaughn, and Overby families of old Lun. Co. Va. (later Mecklenburg). I am also looking at the Brown family of Bedford County Va..
Some of the members of the families of Green, Sizemore and Brown applied to the Guion-Miller Commission (ca. 1908) to be included in settlement payments for the Eastern Cherokees.
200 Greens, 2,000 Sizemores, and (I think) 250 Browns applied.
All were un-accepted and denied.
Yet photos of descendants of these families show people of obvious mixed-blood American Indian ancestry.
They could not prove then and cannot prove now that they are cherokee. The cherokee tribes do not know who they are.
I am searching for those little bits and pieces that may shed some light on this mystery.
Dan.
.
Dan, I have photos of relatives from grandma’s generation — includin grandma — who look full-blood but I know they are mixed. Also we have “Akins” on my mother’s side of the family. They came fro Pa, to Ill, to Tx at the time of the Civil War to Oklahoma in 1906 where they met my dad’s relatives who were already here. My Dad’s grandma (Josephine Brown Richey) was a midwife and she delivered my mother. She also delivered my father a month before (dad was one month older that my mother).
Linda, I need to look up those counties on a map. It seems to me 1. some people stayed put or to the Soutehrn Appalations (sp?) 2. Others left for Canada 3. Others went to Ar and/or Ok. 4. Others went whereever they wanted, to the four winds, but there seems to be a cocentration in Canada and in the Ozarks and Oklahoma. Does this correspond to the locations Linda, where people are e-mailing from or about?
But to have the same locations, surnames, and dates is interesting, and I think it is probably more than just a coincidence, which it still might be.
Linda I am too ugly to be photographed. The camera breaks when it finds out who its to be focusin on 🙁 — but I have other family photos 🙂
vance
The Midwest and Appalachia seem to be the biggest areas. Ohio has a lot of Eastern Siouan descendants, many with good paper trails, a lot of research has been done there — Michigan, too, Missouri has a lot of people in the Ozarks.
Dan and co. –
One thing about the Cherokee claims in 1908 –
It seems many indians applied at that point in virginia and Northcarolina (as well as SC, GA, TN etc) to accept or be included in federal monies. Many indians apllied including lumbees, nottoways(? several applications), Indians of person, halifax, and warren counties – and of course a whole host of other localities. Creeks applied too, so did catawbas etc.
There are several points to be made with all this applying by all these people.
1) the people applying really were cherokee, just not enough to qualify.
2) the people weren’t indian at all, but hoped to gain $$$$ from the chance.
3) the people were indian, didn’t know what kind, except “cherokee” and applied to help their situation out.
4) the people knew they weren’t cherokee, but figured $$$ for indians was $$$ for indians, even if you were lumbee or coharie – hey you might get something
5) cherokee and proud, sign me up im qualified
Not that everyone doesn’t know this, but some might be confused to see ggma chavis applied for this cherokee $$$ from county X in NC, she must have been cherokee! (not Saponi, as we mostly know)
Side note to parties of Greens – Green town of course is Saponi in Brunswick, a stones throw from Mecklenburg or Lunenburg. But Also a major Patowomack name in Stafford county, and may have some creedance in ” the missing 15″ from Hanover, as well as concerns in Powhatan and Amelia counties. not too far away….
Anyone know how many Blackfeet applied for cherokee allotments in 1908?
That is an excellent question and something someone needs to research who has access to that information in DC. From something someone said, I had the feeling there is mention in those applications of that ID. Of course, as you just pointed out, if people had to say they were Cherokee to get the $$s why would they mention being something else, but it’s worth a try.
Very good points.
Also to qualify for Dawes you had to live in 14 counties in NE Oklahoma, and either be on or have ancestors on the 1880 & 1896 census records in Oklahoma, showin that you resided there at that time. I’m not sure about Guion-Miller requirements. Mine, livin in Chickasaw Nation, would not have been able to qualify for Dawes. The Cherokee Nation is happy to admit by their criteria many were left off their rolls and today admit this is unfortunate. Cherokee Nation officials are easy to talk to nad want to be helpful.
There is an “Alfred Richey” curiously on the Chickasaw Dawes Rolls. Now Jeffrey (my great-grandpa) had only one full brother, as his dad died in 1852 and his Mama died in 1857 and Jeffrey was born in 1851. His Uncle Hamilton Wood Richey raised him and his brother. That full brother’s name was Alfred. I hope to go to Ft. Worth one day and check that out. If it is the same Alfred, he’d have been about 55 years old, so it’d be easy to determine if it isn’t him. If they are the same, we are pretty sure they were not Chickasaw. But they would have had to claim to be Chickasw to get enrolled. Of course if it is another Alfred, the point is mute.
vance
Itconani;
The Greens and the Vaughns went to the Mecklenburg County area from Amelia County Va.. One of the Vaughns of Amelia County was supposed to have gone trading with the Cherokees in 1740.
Do you know more?
Vance;
I cannot confirm this info. from the family sites of Lewis Green Sr., but a granddaughter of his is supposed to have married a John Ritchie.
It goes like this: Lewis Green Sr. (born 1724 in Prince George County Va., died 1784 near Glasgow Ky.) married Eliz. Lauderdale (born 1730 Augusta County Va.) in 1750 in Culpepper County Va..
They had Nancy “Susannah” Green (born 1763 in Va., died 1825 in Scott County Va.) she married Peter Hutchinson Sr. (born 1748,died 1823 in Scott County Va.).
They had Nancy Hutchinson (born 1788, died 1880 in Wise County Va.) she married a JOHN RITCHIE.
Of course this may have nothing to do with you, but you might find it interesting.
These Greens were extremely interesting characters on the frontier.
Dan.
Can you point me in the right direction as to where you found this information on the Greens and Vaughn’s who moved to Mecklenburg from Amelia County?
Dan –
I know nothing about the “greens” in Amelia county per se.
I only know that their are several Powhatan families in the Amelia, Hanover, and Powhatan county area that are not part of the collective “organized” tribes. Many of these people married within the old social settings, crossing county lines. Several marriages in the 1800’s into the reserved pamunkey and mattaponi tribes came from fringe groups (who are now unorganized and unknown to most) from counties like gloucester/mathews. Interesting enough the last “documented” speaker of fluent Powhatan was from this fringe group area in the 1850’s living with her mattaponi husband. Similiarly, the green name was documented as Patawomack in the early 1900’s and is still carried by the “tribe” today. With the missing representation from the Amelia, Powhatan, and Hanover counties – I was only stating that earlier Greens may have married within their tribal / social frameworks. An imporatant late 1700’s / early 1800’s upper mattaponi marriage took place in Amelia county for instance, while the tribe is in King William. Since the Bass family traveled so far, it might not be that unheard of. A check to the Patowomack would hopefully document how long the name has been within that group – according to their research.
Linda –
I only know that some (many?) of the applications had dual claims on them;
the ones Ive been engaged in were Catawba / cherokee; Nottoway / Cherokee; Creek / Cherokee. I was curious if there were any of the today’s popular Blackfoot / Cherokee. I paid 25$ bucks a name to have a researcher look them up in the archives. Im sure you could just pour over the petitions if one had the time to scan for such things.
Thanks Dan — I am missing one generation. Maybe if I could find my Jon Richey’s (b. 1797 Va, Gibson Co., Indiana, d. 1861 Lawrence Co, Ark) parents, I could find earlier generations. At that time, finding other Richey’s would be a great benefit, and I think one day that may be the case. So I am gonna keep this bit of information. 🙂 Thank you for supplyin’ it. I have found Richey, Richee, Ritchee, Ritchey, Richie, and will find other spellings most likely. I think it was the whim of the “clerk” recording the material more than anything else, as to the spelling.
One person long ago said we were “Pamunkey”, that we were descended from Pocahantas herself, and that our Richey’s were from Henrico County, Va. But when I asked for a copy of these records I was told “it’d take too much time” to provide me with it. This was one of those Ark/Mo groups and I just assumed they were puttin’ me on because they were on a membership drive. I do NOT at the present time believe we are descended from Pocahantas as I’ve seen no evidence supporting that at all! But I have seen evidence for Indian ties to the Virginia area, and this is about all I can say at the present.
But if we are related to or knew these Green’s and Itconani, you are saying that they “might be” Pamunkey, well this is the first evidence linking our surname even possibly “knowing” Pamunkey people. But even so, this is along way from proof of anything. I am not seekin to prove anything, I know we are Indian. I am not seekin’ “proof if it”, but rather more knowledge of it. I wanna kow which group we belonged to. Maybe all the tribes merged together after a while and we were all/many of the Virginia Indians mixed together.
vance
vance,
your last statement is closer to the truth. Green is not a Pamunkey name, but rather Patowomack and an isolate in Brunswick that may be Saponi and others from Ft. Christianna mixed populous. Greens knowing pamunkeys is not proven, but pamunkey acknowkedgement of “a group on the upper northerneck” (Patowomack) is noted in the early 2oth century.
The possibilty exists of several families marrying into other indian communities
as has previosuly stated in this thread. Either strenghtening this idea
(or proving the regularity of the surname) is the Nansemond who also count it among many of their collection.
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