- This topic has 4 voices and 7 replies.
-
Posts
-
This man is my 6th g-grandfather. Thanks to Scott Collins and others, I have begun to be more “critical” of what I read on this man and his family because I now see how complex this line truly is.
That said, I’m also a historian, and I have come across some new research while working on a totally unrelated project that seems to indicate that this Mr. Collins perhaps is NOT married to Tecumseh’s “sister” as Harold Somerville indicated in his writings. I’ve also seen his name alternately as Rupe and Rupert, but I’m beginning to wonder if Rupe is not the correct name after all due to some “Rupe” families being nearby to COLLINS families elsewhere.
I’m not trying to stir up conflict on this family, and I’ve heard from some folks who were quite “determined” to keep the Somerville story intact. However, my new piece of the puzzle came from historian, John Sugden, and I’ve been able to track some of what he’s done and find him credible thus far.
However, being the skeptic I am, I would like to collaborate with others to compare notes as to where “your” facts on this man and his family originated. So far, every single person I’ve contacted or found online are using the Somerville text (or Alan Eckert’s books, which are fiction).
Again, I’m not trying to be disrespectful of either of these authors, but I am not certain that this Mr. COLLINS WAS married to Tecumseh’s only blood sister. I’m pretty convinced he was NOT, actually. BUT…..being honest, native relationships are not like white relationships, so it could be just a misinterpretation of familial ties somewhere, too.
SO, what I’m asking is IF anyone has Rupe COLLINS (b. ca. 1740s in VA, now WV) whose daughter would be Jane (or Emma Jane) COLLINS married to Lewis FULL, would you please contact me and share your sources with me? I’d be most appreciative of the collaboration.
Regards,
Freda Bradley
I would trust Sugden over others. I thought Tecumseh’s sister moves to New Madrid, MO, and marries a trader there. I don’t remember Collins as the name. However, then again, I may be misremembering and/or I may be remembering what I read in Eckert’s books.
I don’t have Collins in my line though.
Techteach
By “trade,” I am a professional historian. I was working on a totally different project, when I needed to read Sugden’s book “Tecumseh’ A Life.” I found that several of his sources connected back to my own family. I put it aside for quite some time, then recently picked it back up and began to try to track his sources using my own notes I’ve collected over the years on the “alleged history” of my own Collins line. It is quite the convoluted mess, it seems.
Sugden does, however, have many sources that I was also able to trace and verify which seems to indicate that the family story I have heard is flawed (which I suspected). Anyhow, Sugden shows that Tecumseh’s blood sister did marry, although if memory serves me now, he said it was to a native (not a trader) and eventually left for Missouri. I find that credible, frankly, which means that this Collins cannot be married to Tecumseh’s blood sister.
I really REALLY want to find relatives who can share their source material with me so I can put this to bed. 🙂
Thanks for helping me out.
VintageHippie;37921 wrote: By “trade,” I am a professional historian. I was working on a totally different project, when I needed to read Sugden’s book “Tecumseh’ A Life.” I found that several of his sources connected back to my own family. I put it aside for quite some time, then recently picked it back up and began to try to track his sources using my own notes I’ve collected over the years on the “alleged history” of my own Collins line. It is quite the convoluted mess, it seems.
Sugden does, however, have many sources that I was also able to trace and verify which seems to indicate that the family story I have heard is flawed (which I suspected). Anyhow, Sugden shows that Tecumseh’s blood sister did marry, although if memory serves me now, he said it was to a native (not a trader) and eventually left for Missouri. I find that credible, frankly, which means that this Collins cannot be married to Tecumseh’s blood sister.
I really REALLY want to find relatives who can share their source material with me so I can put this to bed. 🙂
Thanks for helping me out.
a couple of concepts I think you need to check on more.. mostly because controversy does sell books thus a controversy doesn’t make it true it just makes it talked about. but so far I don’t see any conflict in what has always been the story.
one question is do you know what Rupe means? I don’t , but I would love to take a few guesses .
second Him being named Collins doesn’t rule out him being native and a trader too . depending on the tribes he was from tribal inheritance of his father or mother , it used to be about our grandma’s and even if he is Not the native American Collins’s but a European Collins , it is not and has never been about what you looked like.. that goofiness started when Europeans got in control of Native Americans and they started telling natives if they were ‘part blood’ or not.. so Europeans started to define who and what a
” REAL”( enough for them )native American was.
so why are you suggesting that he wasn’t a native American ? because he has a European white guys name?
I mean who is it that is claiming Rupe Collins wasn’t a native and how do they know that ?
These ancestors are not part of my direct line. However, what I have seen on other’s trees is that Rupe may have been his mother’s surname. (although no tree I have seen lists Rupe Collins parents) There are alternate spellings of this surname like Roeup – a German/Dutch name. There were families with this surname in PA at this time. Rupe Collins wife is listed by various names in different trees Maragaret McKee, Tecumopolas, Menewaulaakoose Tecumapease, Tecumapese Tecumpase, Tecumapease Shooting Star.
One of the trees that has the most info on ancestry is the Debra Cooley-Moore tree. One of the sources she identifies is Mary Jane Wood. Some of the ancestors of this couple have made applications for Shawnee membership. Haven’t seen anyone say whether applications were approved or rejected.
This is exceedingly helpful. By following these clues, I was able to find that Mary Jane Wood appears to have followed a trail that I had considered myself. This gives me a jumping back on point that I appreciate IMMENSELY!
I wasn’t able to find her contact info, but if anyone knows a current email or knows HER, I’d love to be in contact with her on this. 🙂
Marc, you ROCK!
MarcSnelling;37954 wrote: These ancestors are not part of my direct line. However, what I have seen on other’s trees is that Rupe may have been his mother’s surname. (although no tree I have seen lists Rupe Collins parents) There are alternate spellings of this surname like Roeup – a German/Dutch name. There were families with this surname in PA at this time. Rupe Collins wife is listed by various names in different trees Maragaret McKee, Tecumopolas, Menewaulaakoose Tecumapease, Tecumapese Tecumpase, Tecumapease Shooting Star.
One of the trees that has the most info on ancestry is the Debra Cooley-Moore tree. One of the sources she identifies is Mary Jane Wood. Some of the ancestors of this couple have made applications for Shawnee membership. Haven’t seen anyone say whether applications were approved or rejected.
Happy to help!
This is one email address I have seen for Mary Jane Wood circa 2011: cinmaryjane(at)aol.com
I emailed Mary Jane, but so far have not heard back……HOWEVER…in following the new lead you shared with me I did find some other new research from a college professor in Canada that may help. It was just published in 2013. I will need quite a bit of time to wade through the new morass of “stuff” but I’m hoping this will help somewhat…..assuming Mary Jane’s avenue follows the new research. 🙂
I wouldn’t have seen all this were it not for you all and this board. I appreciate all the help SO MUCH!! I’ll share back if there’s anything to share. 😀
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
