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Here’s the website of the fella I was talking about in my last message —
http://www.chronography.com/rainwater/
I hope it helps. Just keep in mind the guy who put it up doesn’t seem to want to have any Indian blood.
vance
Vance,
I have met a few family researchers that refuse to believe they have Indian ancestry. Doesn’t matter what approach you take, they won’t budge. Thought the statement about “old people looking Indian” was funny, I thought I had heard everything! I have come to the conclusion that we can spend our whole life trying to change other people’s minds, but it’s not worth it. 😀
Take care,
CoheeLady
Don’t you just love those NOT Indians? We need to put them in a room with all those other people who laugh at how “everybody has an Indian grandmother these days,” and see what happens. hahaha.
I wonder, when the NOT Indian starts talking about how ridiculous it is for anybody to WANT to claim Indian blood, how much the other ones will still be laughing. Bet you dollars to doughnuts they’ll be running around telling everybody the NOT Indian has an Indian grandmother.
Originally posted by vance hawkins
I think if you look in the Choctaw Nation you might see the Rainwater surname, but I might be wrong. They are at least on the census records if nothing else.
You mention ancestors in Northern Alabama. I visited that region of Alabama this last Spring because I can trace many of my ancestors there. I was shocked to find a lot of people there today who say they are Cherokee and that they had been there since before the removal. I talked to some Riddles living there and they said they are Cherokee, as well as others. I was in Lawrence Winston and Walker Counties because that is where my ancestors were before going to Arkansas and eventually Indian Territory.
My Indian ancestors went along at least 2 or 3 migration routes. Waylands went straight from Va to Ar. Richeys went from Va to In to Ar to IT. The Brown’s and Guesses went from N. Al to Ar to IT. While in N. Al I was looking through old files in libraries, and I remember seeing the Rainwater surname (I already knew they were related to us in Arkansas) and they were near my ancestors in Alabama, too. In Arkansas my Browns married my Richeys in 1872, so although the Rainwaters were close to my Brown’s in Norhtern Alabama, it was my Richey’s and Waylands who married a Rainwater, not my Brown’s.
There are state recognized Cherokee tribes in Alabama and one of them claims to be descended from ancesotrs in this area.
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I talked to a Rainwater genealogy researcher on line and he swore up and down that they were NOT Indians. On his Rainwater genealogy web page he said old photos were not reliable because you need to see them in contrast with both White and Indian people because “Old people look Indian” (his words) any how.
I told him his Rainwaters married some of my relatives and showed him a picture of my ancestors, the photos you have seen, Linda — I told him the father of those 2 Richey boys (grandma’s 2 youngest brothers, who were born in the Chickasaw Nation) had a cousin that married a Rainwater. He never e-mailed me responding to my email.
His website said there was no “proof” any Rainwater’s were Indian. Well you know my photo shows young people in a rural school, and it has trhe 2 Indian Richey boys (NOT old people) contrasted by all the Caucasian boys and girls next to them, so his argument didn’t work there. In my e-mail where I sent the photos as jpgs I asked him if he had any proof, such as he was requiring for Indian blood, that they were white. 🙂 Well, he never answered. This was just a couple of months ago.
He said there were Rainwaters who claimed to be Cherokee but that they were wrong. But I wish he’d have responded. Maybe I can find his web page again. Maybe somebody else will have better luck talking to him.
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RAINWATER WAR
YES , there is a war in the Rainwater Family, Susan -Chance Rainwater, Glidie Rainwater Mobly , Robert Albert Rainwater, they have the Rainwater web site and trying to convence all of America
that the Rainwater came from England
they will talk about the Black Rainwaters, but Being Native American , they don`t want to admit, to
and Susan -Chance Rainwater she is only a wife of a Rainwater ,
we need Help in Building the Rainwater Native American web Site
oh yes I have Talk to Bill & Kelley Rainwater who are Enrolled
member of the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma they are very
VERY VERY Mad about this RAINWATER WAR, there email was airforce2@mindspring.com they told me alot about our Rainwater
Native American Genealogy, the Rainwater are from the Paint Clan
the Medicine people, conjurer`s they know our Cherokee History
they where so Mad about it I started to talk about in the E-mail
and Kelley Block my E-mail I never got a Chance to tell them that I was on there side , I did not believe in this Rainwater Web site
I have Many Full Blood Friend in Cherokee Res. Norht Carolina
and in Oklahoma, John Ross he was the Chief of the United Ketoowah Band of Cherokee`s in Oklahoma , he new some Rainwater`s there in Oklahoma, Bullet Standing Deer he is from
North Carolina he told me along time ago about our Rainwater
Name he told me Rainwater was a very very old Cherokee Name
and the Cherokee Nation Knows. And yes there are Rainwater
who Married in the Choctaw Nation I have the Records the Rainwater are also Married into Creek Nation OKlahoma, and also
in the Lakota Nation Rosebud, Matter of fact my son mother my EX-wife is Full Blood Lakota from Rosebud
GREETING , Freinds I hate to keep talking about our Rainwater
War, it strange that the people of the Rainwater web site don`t
see
Marvin Rainwater , said he is Cherokee, and There is Gregg
A. Rainwater, he is a Native American Actor and Listed on the Native american Actor Gilled he is Cherokee, Osage , Irish descent
it seem , my Question is Where are English Rainwater, even
the Phs. James Leo Rainwater , is Listed as Native American
but they want put that on there web site that we was of Native
American Descent.
Dennis L Rainwater
A.K.A Thunder Hawk
Howdy Dennis, and my other friends here,
Those Rainwaters who married into the Choctaw, I bet those are relqted to the ones who married into my family, because when I found a Rainwater married a Richey, I followed noticed a Rainwater line move into the Choctaw Nation in I believe it was Le Flore County, Oklahoma. My ancestors for a while lived near them. When my great grandparents married, they moved to the Arkansas River just inside Indian Territory in 1871. One side of the river was Sequoyah County and was in in tha Cherokee Naiotn. The other side of the river was Leflore County and was in the Choctaw Nation. It was the 1880s that they moved over to the Chickasaw nation near present day Duncan, Ok. These families knew each other in Lawrence County, Arkansas before all this. These would have been people related to Hugh Rainwater, the Methodist preacher who also wat the pastor that married my great grandparents or a descendent of his with that same name did, anyhow.
Dennis, I am so happy to have run into you here! Your family and mine have a common history, and at least for a generation or 2 or 3, they were friends in Arkansas in 1815 attending the same church, and probably were last in touch with each other in IT into the 1870s — they married into one anothers family on at least one occasion that I know of. I want you to know these things. My Guesses were Paint also. Brown’s were Wolf. My mother was white (German, Scots-Irish mainly) so I am clanless.
well best wishes,
donadagohvi —
vance hawkins
If you are subscribed to http://www.Ancestry.com and type in “Hamilton Richey” you can find what I have cut and pasted below. Hamilton Richey raised my great grandfather, Jeffrey Hoten Richey. He was his Uncle. Mary Wayland (Hamilton’s second wife) was Jeffrey’s Aunt. So jeffrey was raised by his Uncle and Aunt, but they were both BLOOD Uncle and BLOOD Aunt, related on both sides. Jeffrey’s parents were Joseph Richey and Sarah Wayland. Sarah and Mary were sisters just like Joseph and Hamilton were brothers. So John Henry Richey was a cousin, but they were raised in the same household as brothers. However Jeffrey was 18-19 when John Henry was born so he was probably out of the house by then.
I went ahead and loked this up and am copying and pasting it here as yall’ve gotten my interest up. 🙂
The person who created this file has a habit of posting maiden names followed by a hyphen followed my the male’s surname. She and I have e-mailed each other many times. For example, when she writes “Johnny Ada Philips- Rainwater, she is saying Ada’s mother’s maiden name was Philips.
Waylands came to Arkansas in 1815 & Richey’s came there in the 1840s.
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ID: I15993
Name: Francis RAINWATER
Sex: M
Birth: ABT 1845 in AR
Reference Number: #15993
Marriage 1 Nancy PHILLIPS b: ABT 1850 in AR?
Children
Johnny Ada Phillips- RAINWATER b: ABT 1870 in r. Lawrence Co, AR
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John Harrison Wayland- RICHEY
Birth: 1870 in Lawrence Co, AR
Death: 1910 in Lawrence Co, AR
Father: Hamilton Woods Woods- RICHEY b: 29 DEC 1829 in Gibson Co, IN
Mother: Mary J. WAYLAND b: ABT 1834 in r. Lawrence Co, AR
Marriage 1 Johnny Ada Phillips- RAINWATER b: ABT 1870 in r. Lawrence Co, AR
Married: 24 DEC 1894 in Lawrence Co, AR
Children
Elmer Horace Rainwater- RICHEY b: 6 NOV 1896 in Eaton, Lawrence Co, AR
Maudie Lee Rainwater- RICHEY b: 23 FEB 1898 in Eaton, Lawrence Co, AR
Clara Josephine Rainwater- RICHEY b: 14 FEB 1898 in Eaton, Lawrence Co, AR
Parvin Marion Rainwater- RICHEY b: 31 DEC 1900 in r. Lawrence Co, AR
Juddie Rainwater- RICHEY b: 1 OCT 1902 in Eaton, Lawrence Co, AR
Mary Susan Rainwater- RICHEY b: 18 DEC 1903 in Eaton, Lawrence Co, AR
Henrietta Rainwater- RICHEY b: 23 NOV 1906 in Eaton, Lawrence Co, AR
Morris (twin) Rainwater- RICHEY b: 8 DEC 1907 in Eaton, Lawrence Co, AR
Marvin (twin)Rainwater- RICHEY b: 8 DEC 1907 in Eaton, Lawrence Co, AR
Ezra Rainwater- RICHEY b: 12 MAY 1910 in Eaton, Lawrence Co, AR
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Well from this it looks like the Rainwater/Phillips and Waylands/Richey’s married each other in the 1890s, in Arkansas, so from 1815 until the early 1900s members of those families that stayed in Arkansas were still neighbors.
vance
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