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Hey All, well with this evolution of names and cultural adaptions many times the native perspective is lost.
After years and generations of cultural assimalation we often forget how issues have been transformed, who was defining who and how new rules changed old perceptions.
All the best Tom
Hi Linda and Brenda
you mention Stewart and Chavis under this list of surnames – please see my new posting of March 26, 2004 under
Stewart OR Stuart – Share History Research
Do any of you have Stewart ancestors?
thanks Randy
Page 33 Siouan Tribes of the East by James Mooney
On this page Mooney gives reference to the 4 orgin Mothers. These being:
Sepoy
Pash
Askarin
Maraskarin
It states that these 4 sisters went on to generate the four tribes that make up the South Eastern Siouans. Which four tribes do you think Mooney meant?
Linda, if Isi means foot, well I recall reading there was a Piedmont Siouan tribe called “Issi” aka “Esaw”.
So there is documentation of a Piedmont Siouan tribe with that half of the name already.
vance
Vance – Do you remember where information came from, a book, journal, article, I am very interested in knowing.
Does anyone else know or could help?
Felicity — I haven’t hard from you in a while! How are you? Good to hear from you. 🙂
Well I just had a lot of links and it all just dissapeared . . . ???
rats.
I’ll just do it again . . .
http://www.cofc.edu/~waddelle/CofitachiquiRev2.html
The earliest mention of the Esaw is in a list of tribes which Matthews himself had made in 1671 for the Earl of Shaftesbury. He started his list of all known tribes with the “St. Helena ye Southernmost,” and he continued from south to north until he ended it with the “…Esaw, [and] Cotachicach….”[55] The Cofitachiqui lived nearest to the Esaw of all the tribes in the list.
— and —
The “Issa” were encountered by Pardo in 1566 living at or near the present location of the Catawba Reservation, and judging by their name and location, they unquestionably were the “Esaw” of the Catawba Nation. The Catawba spoke a Siouan dialect, and “Esaw” is a Siouan word for river.[59A]
Other sites saying the Issa are the Catawba are here —
http://www.sciway.net/hist/indians/catawba.html
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/nations/catawba.htm
http://www.dickshovel.com/Catawba.html
———————
These sites however say Issa or Esaw comes from Iswa a Siouan word for River, and not “issi” for foot. But I wonder . . .
The Dick Shovel website mentions words with a “w” (Esaw, Iswa, Isaw) as being in old Spanish archives, but I don’t believe there is a “w” in the Spanish alphabet, so that is curious. He also gives “Usi”, “Usheree”, and “Ushery”as names they were called by the English. That’s very close to “Euchee” — hmm . . . does he have Euchee/Yuchi and Issa mixed up?
A google search turns up many web sites.
This leaves a lot of question marks I am afraid and few answers.
vance
Forest,
I see your point and do appreciate it a lot.:) As a large think tank or research pool it would be…..foolish at best to leave out any area where true information can be found. Sure, a surname on somebodies document may be just that, a surname. However, it is also a spark and a spark in the dark is all one soul needs sometimes to point them in the right direction. I feel we all need to check and recheck all sparks. We may build a really nice fire, we may not, but atleast we’ve left nothing unchecked. Wouldn’t you agree? Lynella.
I was wondering about the origins of some names that we see have been used by ancestors. Names like Asenath Sina, Mahala, and Theophilos.
Collins,
I know what you mean about the origin of some of these first names. I too have a Mahala and a Jehu Staton and there were other Statons with very interesting names. Kerry posted it last year, I think probably on the Geneology forum. I think it was a post strictly about the Staton line, but some of those names are just…..well, darned interesting! I should try to dig it up again, but for some reason I have trouble finding anything with this search thingy. I’m not doing it right or something!;)
Hey Lynella!
Is this it?
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1301&highlight=jehu
Sue J
Sue,
Yes! That’s it! Thank you very much! See there are some strange names in there, Dancingmaster, Niamiah or something, Biavins?????? Interesting. I’ll print this so I have the link. Thank you so much! Love & Light, Lynella.
Brenda Collins Dillon wrote: SAPONI NATION NAMES ( NAME-TRIBE-YEAR-PLACE) (chief *)
Amoroleck………………………..Monacan……….1608………….Virginia
*Deabedanba……………………Nusang………….1657………….Northampton,Co. Va
Monack…………………………..Monakins……….1670………….Virginia
Indian John/Hasecoll/Hasecott..Ocannechi……..1673………….Mecklenburg Co. Va.
*Rosseechy……………………..Ocannechi………1676………….Mecklenburg Co. Virginia
*Shurenough…………………….Manakins……….1677………….Virginia
*Mastegonoe……………………Saponi…………..1677………….Virginia
*Tachapoake……………………Saponi…………..1677………….Virginia
Eno Will…………………………..Eno/Shakori…….1710………….Virginia
*Whitmannetaughehee………..Catawba…………1716………….South Carolina
*Austugah/Sapona…………….Catawba Ruler…..1720………….South Carolina
Jessee Heathcock………………Saponi……………1724…………Brunswick Co. Virginia
*Capt.Tom………………………Saponi……………1728…………Brunswick Co, Virginia
*Mahennip………………………Saponi……………1728………….Brunswick Co, Virginia
Tom Irvin………………………..Saponi……………1728………….Brunswick Co. Virginia
HarryIrvin……………………….Saponi……………1728…………Brunswick Co. Virginia
Ned Bearskin…………………….Saponi……………1728……….. Brunswick Co. Virginia
John Hescott……………………Saponi……………1728………….Brunswick Co, Virginia
Pryor…………………………….Saponi…………….1728………….Brunswick Co, Virginia
Joseph Heathcock……………..Saponi ……………1728………….Brunswick Co Virginia
William Jeffreys…………………Saponi…………….1730’s ………Indian School
Ozato……………………………Catawba…………..1738…………South Carolina
Alex.Macharition……………….Saponi……………..1742…………Orange Co. Virginia
John Bowling……………………Saponi……………..1742………..Orange Co. Virginia
Maniassa………………………..Saponi……………..1742…………Orange Co.Virginaia
Tom……………………………..Saponi……………..1742…………Orange Co, Virginia
Isaac Harry……………………..Saponi……………..1742………..Orange Co. Va.Virginia
Blind Tom……………………….Saponi……………..1742…………Orange Co, Virginia
Foolish Jack…………………….Saponi……………..1742…………Orange Co, Virginia
Charles Griffin………………….Saponi………………1742…………Orange Co, Va.
John Collins…………………….Saponi………………1742…………OrangeCo, Virginia
Little Jack………………………Saponi………………1742…………OrangeCo,Va.
*AratswaHagler……………….Catawba…………….1748………..North Carolina
Edward Heathcock………….Saponi……………….1749………..Northampton,NC
Thomas Heathcock…………..Saponi………………..1749……….Northampton, NC
John Heathcock………………Saponi………………..1749……….Northampton,NC
Heskake……………………….._____………………..1753……….Virginia
*Johnny……………………….Cheraw……………….1768……….SouthCarolin
Jin……………………………..Catawba………………1774……….BotteroutCo.Virginia
SimonJeffers/Jeffreys……….Saponi/Catawba……..1783……….NorthCarolina
William Guy…………………..Saponi/Catawba……..1783……….NorthCarolina
Kizor Haitcock………………..Ocannechi/Saponi…..1787………..MecklenburgCo.Virginia Onoyegeneon………………..Tutelo…………………1789………..New York
Ontehoghkau…………………Tutelo………………..1789……….. New York
Haykawyenin…………………Tutelo………………..1789…………NewYork
Mahionguti……………………Tutelo………………..1789…………NewYork
Yenyahkeya………………….Tutelo………………..1789…………NewYok
Kansoreakt…………………..Tutelo………………..1789………….NewYork
Washomene………………….Tutelo………………..1789………….NewYork
Konakauney………………….Tutelo………………..1789………….New York
Porarah……………………….Tutelo………………..1789………….New York
Nehqueksati………………….Tutelo………………..1789………… NewYork
Keest………………………….Tutelo………………..1789………….NewYork
Does anyone know what the reference/s is/are for this information? Curious…would like to find out more.
Shirley
A fair number of these names are based on supposition, not actual historical references. For example, while Will(iam) Jeffries attended the Brafferton School for Indians from 1736-1742, he is NOT identified as Saponi. He PROBABLY was, but that is based on putting together other bits and pieces of info. In point of actual fact, many of the students there were, from their surnames, Algonquin, not Siouan. Simon Jeffries and William Guy are NOT identified in any 1783 document from North Carolina as Catawba or Saponi, and none of the Haithcocks mentioned in the list are identified as Indian, let alone Saponi in either NC or Virginia. If anyone tells you I’m wrong on this, ask them for their original source and take a look at it for yourself.
The Lawrence family is one of the very few identified in Brunswick/Greensville Co. records pre-1850 as Indian, and they are conspicuous by this fact. Were they Saponi, again, probably so, but the records simply state “Indian”
Were these folks Indian? Probably so. Do specific historical sources exist proving it? No, probably not. This list, without sources, is at best less than useful, and at worst, misleading to folks trying to do research on the Siouan tribes.
In fairness to Brenda, she was simply trying to be helpful, and posted this list that she came accross from elsewhere.
Forest wrote: A fair number of these names are based on supposition, not actual historical references. For example, while Will(iam) Jeffries attended the Brafferton School for Indians from 1736-1742, he is NOT identified as Saponi. He PROBABLY was, but that is based on putting together other bits and pieces of info. In point of actual fact, many of the students there were, from their surnames, Algonquin, not Siouan. Simon Jeffries and William Guy are NOT identified in any 1783 document from North Carolina as Catawba or Saponi, and none of the Haithcocks mentioned in the list are identified as Indian, let alone Saponi in either NC or Virginia. If anyone tells you I’m wrong on this, ask them for their original source and take a look at it for yourself.
The Lawrence family is one of the very few identified in Brunswick/Greensville Co. records pre-1850 as Indian, and they are conspicuous by this fact. Were they Saponi, again, probably so, but the records simply state “Indian”
Were these folks Indian? Probably so. Do specific historical sources exist proving it? No, probably not. This list, without sources, is at best less than useful, and at worst, misleading to folks trying to do research on the Siouan tribes.
In fairness to Brenda, she was simply trying to be helpful, and posted this list that she came accross from elsewhere.
Thanks Forest for the reply…good to know whether the information is worth digging into further or not…
Shirley
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