- This topic has 6 voices and 20 replies.
-
Posts
-
My wife is 1/8 an unidentified tribe. Her great grandmother was a Sina (or Sinai) E. Arnold, daughter of a John Arnold and Nancy Griffith. This lady–Sina–always referred to herself as a fullblooded Indian of some tribe. Family tradition has maintained this, and a picture of Sina taken @ 1880 upholds her at least being 1/2 (it’s hard to tell other than her features, hair). My wife’s late uncle said that the tribe began with an “S,” but no one is sure what.
Raleigh, Co. WV is where Sina died, she married a Christopher Williams sometime @ 1860/70. Raleigh is not all that far from the traditional “Saponi” area.
Her daughter, Harriet, married Peter Clay and gave birth to my wife’s father, Haven, in 1912.
Does anyone have information concerning the Arnold name, or perhaps even the Griffith?
Jim Wood,
Charlottesville, CA
Jim,
Just thought I would say hi and let you know that West Virginia is full of the same stories. I was born in Nicholas County not far from Raleigh. Do you have any TAYLOR’s in your line? My Eli Taylor married Margaret Wood(s)and raised a family of 11 children in the area of Greenbrier Co. that became Nicholas. They too shared a common story of IND blood in the family but I have never proven it. The line goes back to William Taylor who married Senor believed to be full blooded. I also have WILLIAMS in my line.
Brenda Collins Dillon
brendacollinsdillon@comcast.net
I would not at all be surprised if the Willamses were also partly Native American, regardless of Sina Arnold. My wife is a Clay/Stover all of whom have been in Raleigh since it was Greenbrier/Mercer/Summers/etc. Changed boundaries so much back then that for each new census everyone had “moved.” Betsy appears Indian, especially in face structure/nose, so we at least can accept the general validity of the tradition.
My people are also from Raleigh–Gore (Henry Gore, Jr.), Thompson, Fink, Meador, and Vines. All out near Odd (nee Mercer Co.) The Gore line–these are all matrilineal, but Gore would be matrilineal on top of that!–is Portuguese, originating from Henry Jr’s granny Mary Maderas. The result is very dark folks–my late mother tanned even as a baby. I would like more information on the VINESes.
What can you tell me about blood/DNA tests? I have yet to too much investigate them, but I am interested in proving the Portugueseness, which makes me multiracial to be sure!
Jim Wood
I only know about the mtDNA test, which only tests for the purely maternal line and tells your which of some 30 types of mitochondria found in humans you have. This tells you where in the wolrd you’re purely maternal ancestor comes from, back thousands of years.
I don’t know if there’s a test that will show whether you’re Portugeuse. If you had that on your purely maternal line you’d show for the same “mother” as other Mediterranean Europeans, like the Spanish and Italian the Portugeuse border.
If there’s a specific family you wan to prove relationship to, I believe there are other tests that will show if you’re cousins.
That’s all I know about it.
By looking at the various threads/replies, it appears that virtually everyone started out in Montgomery Co., VA! As did a good number of my people. According to various sources, including even this site, THOMPSON is associated with Saponis and/or melungeons. My one grandfather James Thompson was engaged in selling and buying land to and from Henry Gore, Jr. Henry also became the father of many of James Thompson’s grandchildren through Jane Thompson. The land dealings all center around Island Creek in Montgomery, afterwards Giles County. Island Creek seems to be associated with not only Anglicized Native American communities but also African/Indian families.
Are there any Montgomery-originating folks who know more about the Island Creek area?
Also, does anyone think it absurd that some Indians would take the name of DUNSMORE after the 1774 War?
I’m not familiar with Montgomery county, though I may not have noticed a pattern. The Williams name is on the list I have of names felt to be associated with Saponi families. The Thompson name that I mention in the Blackfoot article is a southeastern native associated name. It’s felt to be associated with the Nanticoke specifically.
One historian told me that what he had noticed was a tendency for native people to find themselves dubbed by the surname of the white family they were working for. That may account for the Dunsmore name.
Jim, one of my Waylands married a Griffith. This was in Arkansas though. These are descendants of the same Waylands who attended Stoney Creek Primitive Baptist Church, where many Meulngeon surnames first appear about 1800, or just before or just after.
I am also descended from some Woodses. Some tmes it was spelled Wood and at other times Woods. These people are mentioned as “Pioneers of Indiana” arriving there about 1806. Mary Wood married John Richey in Gibson County Indiana in 1817. I am descended from them. They were on the Holston River in E. Tn before that,
What do you have about the “Wood/Woods surnanme?
vance
Dennis (and anyone else)
Thought you would find this ironic (and tragic). I have spent part of my summer reading a genealogy written on the ancestors we feel are native. One of the men of my Green family, John Green who helped Ebeneezer Zane build Zane’s Trace, married the widow of the white man, Charles Bilderback, who killed the first native at Gnaddenhutten (Joseph). Another Green married the daughter of this man. Charles met his justice though. His wife became a widow when he was caught and killed by a band of natives. Later, she married into a family that undoubtably has native family members.
Cindy
Dennis,
A few months ago we travelled to Alabama and found some informtion about some ancestors. I just discovered the maiden name of the wife of one of my great great great grandfathers whose name was John Brown. His wife was Mary Polly Black. It is known some “Blacks” who settled in Lawrence, Walker, and Winston Counties in North Central Alabana were Cherokee. That is where John Brown and Mary Black married in 1818, in Lawrence Co, Al.
Mary was born in North Carolina according to 1850 & 1860 census records of her. Where do your “Black’s” come from? That is really all we have been able to flesh out about our Blacks. I really only discovered the surname is one of ours, and know very little about them. I did see Black and Brown surnames as neighbors in 2 or 3 counties in far western parts of North Carolina, but don’t know if they are ours or not. I suspect they are, tho.
vance
Jim,
Christopher Williams marr’d Sina E. Arnold on 25 Feb 1858 per Raleigh Co., Va. (Wva) marriage records.
Their first born son (July 1860 Census) was Henry K. Williams, b.ca. May 1860 who does not appear on 1870 census with them.
…………….
This could be a clue to Christopher’s parents : A Henry Williams, b.ca.1815 Va, and his wife Clara (Clarissa) Kirk [marr’d 3 July 1835 Kanawha Co., Va (Wva)], are in next door Boone Co. & they are on the 1850 Boone Co., Va (Wva) census with a 14 year old son Christopher. But this Henry may be a brother or uncle of your Christopher as there are two Christopher Williams in 1860, both b.ca. same year and it appears that Henry’s son is the “other” Christopher. (Next door to Henry Williams in 1850, are Isaac Kirk, Sr, b.ca.1794 Va., and William Kirk, Sr, also b.ca.1794 Va.)
…………..
Next door to Henry Williams in 1840 Kanawha Co. is Isaac Williams, age 50 to 59.
…………..
Nancy (Griffith) Arnold, b.ca.1820 Va., may have died in the 1860s because her husband John Arnold, b.ca.1805-1807 Va., (proven by children’s names) marr’d Elizabeth Williams (b.ca.1815 Va.) on 10 April 1868 in Raleigh Co., Wva.
…………..
John and Nancy Arnold’s dau Lucinda, b.ca.1855, marr’d Adam Williams on 17 Sept 1873.
I found some marriage & birth data on other children of John & Nancy.
…………..
Have census data for Clay’s back to Meridith Clay, b.ca.1815, Va., Peter Clay’s grandfather.
An earlier Meridith Clay marr’d Agnes Evins (Evans) in 1804 Montgomery Co., VA.
…………..
I’ll do free lookups for Saponitown people.
Bill
Are there any Montgomery-originating folks who know more about the Island Creek area?
Just out of curiosity I typed “Island Creek”Montgomery Co. Va. into Google search engine. I came up with many with the name Reed/ Reedy Island Creek. I remembered in YENYAHOLA’s RESEARCH that I posted a lot of information on Reedy Island Creek.
Jim,
Per research of Lisa Odom ( odomlr@worldnet.att.net ), the marriage record transcription of Christopher Williams and Sina E. Arnold is :
Christopher Williams, 23, born Giles Co., Va, son of Jeremiah and Susan.
Sina E. Arnold, 22, born Henry Co., Va, dau of William and Mary.
Married by Elias Kendall, 25 Feb 1858, Raleigh Co., Va.
(Henry Co is down on the NC border.)
However, I found NO Arnold’s in Henry Co in 1840 or 1850, but there are two next door in Patrick Co.
……………………
Also per Lisa Odom,
“Raleigh County Deaths
Apr 1879
John Arnold, 67, died of Enysipelas (Encephalitis), born Patrick Co., Va, the son of John and Millie Arnold. Death reported by a daughter, Sina Williams.”
…………………….
Per Lisa’s and my own stuff :
John Arnold (Jr.), the father of Sina (could be, he was a John William Arnold), was born in Patrick Co., Va.
His parents were :
John Arnold, Sr., b.ca.1780, NC., and marr’d 16 Sept. 1799 in Patrick Co., Va, Milly Hollinsworth, b.ca.1780 Va.
……………………
1830 Patrick Co Va, Southern Dist., p.144 (indexed p.387) :
John Arnold
Household contains:
1 male 10 to 14.
1 male 15 to 19.
1 male 20 to 29 (John Jr.’s age range.)
1 male 40 to 49.
1 female 10 to 14.
2 females 15 to 19.
1 female 20 to 29.
1 female 40 to 49.
……………………….
1840 Patrick Co., Va., Southern Dist., p.44 :
John Arnold Jr
Household contains:
1 male under 5.
1 male 5 to 9.
1 male 30 to 39.
1 female under 5 (Sina’s age range)
1 female 30 to 39.
………………………..
1850 Patrick Co., Va., Southern Dist., p.355, 12 August, at # 86, 93 : (all household members b. Va.)
John Arnold, Jr., 43, m, farmer, $0, Va.
Nancy ” , 38, f.
William G. ” , 17, m.
Lucinda ” , 14, f. (don’t know is this is “Sina” or not, age is close)
Thomas A. ” , 11, m. (27 on 1870 Raleigh Co Census)
Catania ” , 9, f. (17 y/o Catherine on 1860 Raleigh Census?)
Salley ” , 7, f. (Sarah, 16, on 1860 Raleigh Census)
Jas. A. ” , 4, m. (15 on 1860 Raleigh Census)
One not named, 2 mo., m.
One not named, 2 mo., m.
………………………….
On the Same Census, p.387, at 545, 577, 4 October :
John Arnold, 70, m, farmer, $300, NC.
Milly ” , 70, f, Va.
Anderson ” , 32, m, farmer, $0, Va.
…..at 545 (same house), 578 :
Elizabeth Arnold, 26, f, Va.
Andrew J. ” , 3, m, Va.
=============================================
Christopher Williams’s father Jeremiah, (listed as “Jerry Williams” on the 1850 Raleigh Co., Va (Wva) census).
Jeremiah Williams, b. 25 Dec 1807 Giles Co., Va, marr’d 20 Aug 1826 Fayette Co., Va (Wva), Susannah White, b. 8 Sept. 1804 Giles Co., Va., dau of James K. White, b.ca.1777 Va, and Mary Campbell, b.ca.1780 Va.
………………………
Jeremiah Williams’s parents:
Alexander Williams, b.ca.1776 Va., d. 1 Feb 1815, Giles Co., Va.
marr’d Eliza “Unknown”, b. ca. 1785 Va.
………………………
Alexander Williams’s parents:
Jeremiah Williams, b.ca.1747, Faquier Co., Va, and
Mary Garst, b.ca.1750, Faquier Co., Va.
………………………
The other Williams’s living in Raleigh Co., Va/Wva, are descendants of “Lonesome Dave” David Williams, b.ca.1780 Giles Co., Va., a brother of Alexander Williams (See “History of Raleigh Co.” on rootsweb’s usgenweb for Raleigh Co., Wva., under “Miscellaneous” section.)
David Williams had a son Henry who named one of his sons Christopher and this is the second Christopher (marr’d Mary…) in Raleigh Co.
There is a lot more data & info if you’re interested – contact me at billncony@comcast.net, or Lisa Odom.
……………………..
Bill Childs
After digging through the various censuses (censi?), I was able to trace Sinai Arnold’s nephew, Andrew J. Arnold, from WV to Stohrville, KS after the War of Incongruities (aka US Civil War). He had apparently picked up a wife (also VA born) in Missouri. Thereby we are led to believe that the Arnolds were Shawnee–which is corroborated by testimony from one of Sinai’s oldest living grandsons (now dead, hence the problem). The Wlliams clan (tribe) also had all lived together in an area known as “Shawnee Lake,” so. All inferences, of course, but. . . One day, given time and money we might come to a conclusion.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
