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I was wondering if by following creeks, rivers, lakes, and place names if that may aid in following a migration path of a given name?
Thanks
That would be an interesting point to keep a lookout for and record of as we research. I’ve definately noticed place names in the new homes replicating those they had left. I’ve never kept a record.
Have you recently wondered about any in particular?
I’m follwing some of the place names of Collins, Johnson, Sapony, and Saponi.
I’m cataloging this information and will try to search those local areas for clues.
Collins,
Last night while searching within the forum for “Blackfoot Town” looking for the name of Dagsboro, Delaware that I couldn’t recall I came across this post I’d never had the privilege of reading before.
As it turns out the origin of Saponitown has a close connection to a surname, place names, oral and written history through time coming together to define obscured American Indian genealogies and history.
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=419
Here are two internal links to the term “Blackfoot” being noted in the manner you suggest:
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10759&postcount=21
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2339&highlight=blackfoot+town
I know these things can be very personal and time consuming. If you’re in a position to share your observations I would find the locations of “Saponi” place names especially of interest.
Good luck to you
Dianne
Thank you for linking me to the other posts. I hadn’t read those before.
Perhaps I should try and go back to that source and search for Blackfoot as well.
The following contains my notes, relavent to my lines in some manner, for information that I looked at yesterday. I spent the day going through these because I figure that perhaps if I find out the history behind the naming of these locals then perhaps I may glean some sign post as to whether or not an ancestor may have been in those locations. Hope the effort provide you or anyone here at Saponitown with some enjoyment.
References To Saponi Today March 17, 2007
The North Carolina Gazetteer by William Stevens Powell 1968 Chapel Hill
Pg. 439
“Sapony Creek rises in west Nash County and flows southeast into Tar River. Probably named from a stopping place of the Saponi Indians as they moved from the Yadkin River area in the west soon after 1701 to join the Tuscarora in the east.”
Pg. 457
“Sleepy Creek rises in south Wayne County and flows northeast into the Neuse River. Saponi Indians lived along its banks and many arrowheads and artifacts have been found here. Tradition says that the Indians believed the waters of the creek had medicinal values. Sick Indians came to drink the water and later would lie along the creek banks to sleep, hence the name.”
Pg. 245
“Indian Springs, community in south Wayne County near a tributary of Smith Millpond. Settled as early as 1829 and named for local springs traditionally used by the Saponi Indians.”
Pg. 222
“Henry Branch rises in west Nash County and flows southeast into Sapony Creek. Mentioned in local records as early as 1779.”
Pg. 119
“Coopertown, community in south Nash County between Little Sapony Creek and Sapony Creek. Known also as Deans Community.”
Pg. 292
“Little Sapony Creek rises in west Nash County and flows southeast into Sapony Creek.”
“Little Santeetlah Creek rises in west Graham County and flows southeast through the Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest into Santeetlah Creek,”
Pg. 425
“Rosebud, community in southeast Stokes County.”
“Rosebud, community in north Wilson County.”
“Roper Springs, community in northwest Halifax County. A mineral spring here was the site of an Indian camp before the arrival of white settlers. A man named Roper later operated a tavern here, hence the name,”
Pg. 425
“Roquist Creek rises in west Bertie County and flows southeast into Cashie River. Many spellings (Rocquis, Rakwis, Rocquist, Roquewhist, etc.) have been used in the past, but Roquist is the accepted spelling. The word is Tuscarora for “turtle“. Mentioned in local records as early as 1723.”
“Roquist Pocosin, southwest Bertie County.” {my note here Pocosin means swamp}
“Rose Branch rises in west Nash County and flows south into Sapony Creek.”
Pg. 191
“Gin Branch rises in central Nash County and flows into Sapony Creek.”
Pg. 524
“Wells Mineral Spring, south Nash County on a tributary of Sapony Creek. A popular recreation spot in the early 1900’s; water thought to have curative qualities. Now almost abandoned.”
“Welsh Tract, an area between the Northeast Cape Fear and Cape Fear rivers, now largely in central Pender County, on which a number of Welsh families from Pennsylvania settled in 1730 and shortly afterwards. The first grant was made in 1731 to David Evans for 640 acres. Apparently no single large block of land was granted to the Welsh; instead individuals acquired their own land. Appears on the Mosley map, 1733, as Welch Settlement. The Rev. Hugh McAden mentioned the Welsh Tract during his visit to the area in 1755, and the name was still in use in 1775. Persons other than those of Welsh descent soon moved into the area and the Tract lost its identity. About 1740 the Welsh laid out a town which became South Washington,”
Pg. 28
“Bear Branch rises in west Nash County and flows southeast into Sapony Creek.”
Guy’s Hall Swamp
Pg. 64
“Broad Swamp, west of Beaufort County, is the lower course of Hall Swamp. It flows south into Pamlico River.”
Pg. 503
“Turkey Swamp rises in south Martin County and flows south into Tranter’s Creek.”
Pg. 5
“Aggie Run is formed in northwest Beaufort County by the junction of Old Ford Swamp and Snoad Branch. It flows south into Tranter’s Creek.”
Pg. 318
“Meadow Creek rises in west Wilkes County and flows south into Trantor’s Creek.”
Collins Place Names
Pg. 114
“Collins Canal. See Somerset Canal.”
“Collins Creek rises in south Orange County and flows southwest into Chatham County where it enters the Haw River.”
“Collins Creek rises in northeast Rutherford County and flows south into North Fork.”
“Collins Creek rises in north Swain County in Great Smoky Mountains National Park and flows northeast into Oconaluftee River.”
Pg. 115
“Collins Mountain, west central Swain County on the northwest end of Jackson Line Mountain.”
“Collinstown, community in north Stokes County north of Dan River.”
“Collinsville, community in south Polk County on Hughs Creek. Settled about 1875. Named for Thomas G. Collins, local planter.”
Johnson Place Names
Pg. 255
“Johnson Creek rises in south Vance County and flows southeast into north Franklin County where it enters Lynch Creek.”
“Johnson Creek, a tidal creek in Core Sound, near the Core Banks, east Carteret County.”
“Johnson Creek, southeast Buncombe County, east of Turkey Ridge.”
“Johnson Branch rises in east Wayne County and flows northeast into Exum Mill Branch.”
“Wild West Shows and the Image of American Indians, 1883-1933” by L.G. Moses sites a Mary C. Collins as a missionary to the Sioux people.
“Some Things Are Not Forgotten: A Pawnee Family Remembers” by Martha Royce Blaine
Pg.253
“12. In a letter to Herbert Welsh, of the Indian Rights Association, from M.C. Collins, 15 April 1891, she states that the Indians with Wild Bill Cody in Chicago have been reported as being in deplorable condition an “terribly neglected, and it is a disgrace that men can be so treated.” NA RG 75, “Documents relative to the Ghost Dance Religon.” Special Cases, no. 188 roll 2.”
“Powhatan’s World and Colonial Virginia: A Conflict of Cultures” by Frederic W. Gleach
(Reference Pg. 96)
My note follows:
Top of page includes information about the Jesuit Mission in Virginia before Jamestown. It relates how the Indians killed the priests and took their possessions as a sign of self sacrifice.
Also see “The Tepehuan Revolt of 1616” by Charlotte M. Gradie
She says pg. 129 the Powhatans were having a famine. Perhaps they killed the Jesuits to end the famine and see if their God was powerful.
“Real Indians: Indentity And The Survival Of Native America” by Eva Marie Garroutte
Publisher Berkeley University of California Press, 2003
**A MUST READ FOR ALL POW-WOW ARENA DIRECTORS AND JUDGES**
More On Place Names From The Gazetteer
The North Carolina Gazetteer by William Stevens Powell 1968 Chapel Hill
Pg. 50
“Black Ankle, community in north Cleveland County.”
“Black Ankle, derisive name for an area in south central Randolph County. Named because bootleggers operating there during Prohibition would start fires over a large area when they were operating a still so that officers of the law could not find the still. They were said to have “black ankles” from walking through the ashes of old fires to start new ones.”
“Black Ankle, a strip of deep fertile soil across the south portion of Robeson County. Named for the fact that a plowman’s ankles would be black after plowing in this soil.”
“Blackburn, community in southwest Catawaba County. Altitude 1000 ft.”
“Blackburn Knob, south Watauga County between Middle Fork [of South Fork New River] and Matney Branch.”
“Black Camp Gap on the Haywood – Swain County line near the head of Bunches Creek in Great Smoky Mountains National Park on Balsam Mountain. A loghouse camp was built here for the use of cattle rangers and hunters. A forest fire partially burned the camp, burning off the bark and charring the logs of the cabins. Later campers lodging here got themselves black from contact with the burnt logs, hence the name Black Camp. Altitude 4,492 ft.”
“Black Creek Swamp appears on the Collet map, 1770, as a fork of East Mingo Branch, which see, lying completely in modern Harnett County between Black River and East Mingo Branch. This particular fork is no longer named on maps.”
{my note here:7 Black Creek mentions on this pg. 50}
“Black Fields, an area of black, poorly drained soil in east Washington County, covering an area of approx. six square miles, west of the community of Scuppernong. Mentioned as early as 1868 in local records.
{my note here: a scuppernong is a persimmon if memory serves correct}
That is an interesting way and I am sure holds some clues. I know that a persons name often does. Like in my Minor line that came from the VA/NC/TN route, the first name of Guilford became popular and I always thought of Guilford CO. in NC. That is just one example but I think it happened in many instances.
Hey this is a neat thread, scupernongss, (although not found up here), are a muscadine grape, a wild version, and are oftn apart of traditional ceremonies.
Tom and Collins, These wonderful black grapes grow in plenty around my homeplace near the Virginia/Carolina line. We called them “sloes” if that is the correct spelling and pronounced as slow . The vines were in the trees around our fields, around the woods that surrounded our yard and our barns.
My brother once picked a 5 gallon bucket full and brought to us and my wife wanted to know what I was going to do with them. Don’t tell too many folk please but this old conservative preacher made a great supply of the best sweet wine and every one who tasted had not one negative rating for it.
What kind of ceremony were they used for or with and how were they used?
I don’t know if the term sloe would have been native or old english and I always thought Muscadine and Scuppernong were native words. ED
What kind of ceremony were they used for or with and how were they used?
And when you are finished discussing the scuppernongs, how about yaupon? Anybody holding on to any traditions about the Black Drink, making yourself vomit etc. with a concoction of those mildly poisonous berries? I have a dim impression that it was a southern Indian thing — don’t know about Siouans, specifically. I think it was done way back, by the mound builders, and still done during the contact period in our Piedmont area. I’m not sure if it was a ritual, or more like a spring tonic.
Yaupon is a small native holly, without the prickly leaves, and one of the few things that’s evergreen where I live (we don’t have a lot of pines and cedars in this particular creek valley). I was thinking about planting a few more, but the lady at the tree nursery discouraged me — because it gives neighborhood birdies a condition that leaves black spots on your car, deck, sidewalk, head, etc. (Another name for it is inkberry.)
Thanks for mentioning yaupon Pappy, I have had it on my mind for several weeks and meant to post.
The folk in Newbern, North Carolina will tell you there was a Newbern Tea Party before there was a Boston Tea Party. The ladies decided to hold their own resistance to taxation on their tea and held a tea party with teacakes and all but drank yaupon tea instead of the English stuff . They all came to an agreement they would not touch the English stuff until their demands were met .
The Natives in this area-eastern North Carolina used yaupon sort of like a purgative and to induce vomiting. I am unclear concerning all the meaning for them but the Black Drink was used in what I would call a ritual manner as well as purifying their systems and expelling the unwanted and evil from their inner persons. The early colonist also used the plant for the making of yaupon tea. DO NOT AND AGAIN I SAY DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE DRINK AND USE ANY BERRIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You only pick the leaves and then they are roasted and crushed before the product is used to steep a drinkable tea but no berries as they are poison.
There were some attempts to even commercially produce the roasted product for import or use but never really got off the ground. Some folk down here still remember the use of the tea and enjoying it. After investigation and many questions I made some roasting the leaves in my oven and there was ever the slightest hint to sassaffras but not nearly as aromatic and tasty in my opinion. As with sassaffras for some reason I preferred it sweetened with honey and not sugar or even a sugar substitute.
There is a tale on Hatteras Island as some folks are walked over to a very large yaupon “tree” and told it was the only one left as all others were destroyed in the commercial attempts to market the tea. Several folk here told me that but I would have to prove it was the only one left before even considering the possible truth of that tale. Youpon grows very rampant and healthy here. I have even used some youpon switches much to the misery of two young grandson’s but to the contribution of Higher Learning.
I was told that on the barrier islands as well as down east there were those who picked their leaves at a special time and then did the roasting in large cast iron pots on open fire and were very skilled in the process. Ed
Ok, I have many great memories of scuppernongs and muscadines. Scuppernongs around here are a golden color and grow on vines….usually up high in the trees….I remember as a child shaking and yanking on the vines to make them fall to the forest floor and we would scamper around and pick them up for a treat. Now, my mama would grow the dark grape variety on her grapevines…and we made sure we had her permission before going out there and eating our fill.
Going back to the thread subject, names of creeks and road names(versus road numbers) have helped a lot in our placing cemeteries and finding out who might be buried there. I have been looking for a Carter cemetery and yesterday I found a Carter Rd that may be able to break this open for us.
You are right Becky, I had them mixed up in my mind (age deferred). The green or golden-bronze grapes are the Scuppernong and the Muscadines or what we sometimes called Sloes are black. In earlier days the Scuppernong needed the Black grapes to fertilize it to bear since it was not self-pollinating. Here are some links that will give you some basic information on them:
http://southernfoodabout.com/library/weekly/aa091998.htm
http://en.wikepedia.org/wiki/Scuppernong_____grape
http://www.outerbeaches.com/OuterBanks Folklore
Muscadine was given as a name because of the sweet musk aroma and flavor of these grapes note the muscatel wines of Europe
Scuppernong is evolved from the Algonquin language
The Mother Vine with a trunk of 2 ft diameter is found on Roanoke Island just on the coast of North Carolina and site of the first English Colony in the New World.
The above links will give you all this and more information.
Sloe is actually the fruit of the Blackthorn tree or bush and resembles in some ways a dark plum or damson. Looking at the pictures I can see why my Celtic ancestors in this new world would see the similarity of the black muscadines as they grew on the vines in the trees and apply the same term to them. So I would think the explaination for the two names I grew up with involving these native American grapes. Ed
Well they muscadines were and are used in making grape dumplings by several Oklahoma groups and used in ceremonial feasts, just a common food at those get togethers.
The black drink is still brewed by many southern tribes and those in Oklahoma aswell, I have a friend that attends many of the traditional western Cherokee ceremonies.
Still these foods are considered very traditional in the lives of many people, I was in Ga. sometime back and they all knew of these things and more, so I think that it is very common across the south, how far up I really could not say.
Bill, Iam not sure how much this has to do with genealogy, but a neat thread, both of them.!
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