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I just returned from Wise, VA after attending my Grandmother’s funeral. I went to see my Uncle Orlando Collins over in Jenkins, KY and while visiting, got to asking some family research questions. James Madison Hughs Schoolcraft and Catherine Hayes/Hays Schoolcraft were the parents of my Grandmother, Etsy Schoolcraft Collins. According to family oral history, Madison was born in VA 1831 and died 1920,he was the son of Michael Schoolcraft and a Arnold? He married Catherine Hayes/Hays she was born 1859 and died 1935 and was the daughter of James Hayes/Hay and Mary Dixon.
Now my Uncle Orlando said that his Granddaddy Madison was in the Civil War with his two other brothers ( names unknown) and both brothers were killed saying ” all three were up on a ridge during battle running and shooting and Madison saw one brother fall on the right side and the other fall on the left, but he just had to keep running and leave them” . When I researched Civil War records I find 3 Schoolcraft’s listed as serving in the Union 7th KY Inf., James, Nathan and Madison. But futher research shows that none of them were killed in the Civil War.
I am totally confused about this ….were there more than one Madison Schoolcraft? Also , all my life I have been told we were Cherokee Indian on my father’s side “Collins ” and I am from the Griffin Collins line….however when researching the Schoolcraft surname on the net, I am finding references to Shawnee Indian through the mother of Michael Schoolcraft. But I am really not for sure this is the same line. Some internet research just doesn’t add up to my family info.
I guess part of my question here …is Schoolcraft a Saponi known surname? I haven’t come across before now and just wondered if anyone else had?
The other part is how or where can someone get more info on Civil War soldiers ( such as age, parents and location at time of enlisting ) ?
Thanks,
Bushtick
Hello Bushtic, well it is common for things not to add up, I did a family search and found that much of our oral history goes back a generation or 2 from the ones that I thought had lived it.
I found that the national Archives where the muster rolls are kept, had the best info, including widows filing for pensions and having to qualify, they outlined 60 years of thier lives.
Also find a history buff that specializes in the battles you mention and other that you know about.
lastly, names, they can be associated with several tribal units, a friend of mine that has a Brown line, finds that it runs into atleast 5 tribal groups; so much for having tribal barriers.
Best wishes Tom
Bushtic:
And I just found a web site for population information showing where my folks went to the Rosebud Reservation land (My oral history says Cherokee, while one genealogist says they were Shawnee. Her oral history says that Tecumseh’s niece married into our family.) Here’s the web site if it helps anyone else: http://www.rootsweb.com/~cenfiles/sd/mellette/1910/ed124/pg282.txt The Sinkey on this page is part of my family, as well as Mitchell family that he works for. Interesting if I interpret this page correctly, they still call themselves white. Interesting also that if they were Eastern Siouan that some of them ended up on the Rosebud Reservation.
Cindy
Hi Bushtick,
Only one Madison Schoolcraft was found in his era. (His older brother Overton Schoolcraft had a son b.abt. 1861 and was named Madison.)
“Fallen” wouldn’t necessarily mean they died – maybe just wounded and a later version of the story had them dying because they didn’t come back to the area.
Madison, James and Nathan Schoolcraft served in the same Company A, 7th Kentucky Infantry Regiment, U.S. Army, verified by the 7th Kentucky Infantry’s rooster listed on ancestory.com. All three enlisted on 19 August 1861. All three were assigned from Camp Boone (training camp outside Boonesville in Owsley County, Ky where their family lived in 1850) on 28 Sept 1861. Madison was appointed Corporal in Sept 1861. All three are listed as “Distinguished Service”. Madison and Nathan mustered out of the Army on 5 October 1864 at Louisville, Ky, but it looks like they weren’t paid until 1866.
James was mustered out earlier (wounded?) on 26 December 1863 at Madison (Jefferson County) Indiana. (In 1870, Madison Schoolcraft, 32, b.Va., lived with Mary Schoolcraft, 73, b.Va., in Madison, Ind.)
Madison’s pension was filed for by his “Widow” Catharine Schoolcraft on Feb. 9, 1922 (?)(year could be 1920 – hard to read.)
Nathan died unmarried in Madison, Ind in 1895.
I found a history of the 7th Ky Infantry on a subscription service and if you’re interested, let me know and I’ll type it in here.
Of note: Michael Schoolcraft was probably married twice, both women named “Patsey”, a nickname for Martha, and both born in Virginia.
Bill
Thanks everyone for all the helpful info….I have already researched and knew some of the info given but will take all I can get.
My Uncle Orlando, stated both brothers were murdered…..but then went on and corrected that by saying shot and killed! It was his understanding that both of them died during the battle ( unknown battle)! He wasn’t even for sure if Madison was Confederate or Union – since it was in KY.
Net research shows that Michael Schoolcraft born about 1791 in Henry Co., KY was the son of James & Elizabeth. Elizabeth is the Shawnee decendent . I ran across a reprinted article in the KY Explorer some time back quoting a Madison Hughes Schoolcraft-1898- where he explains how he got his name Hughes ( I have found this spelled both Hughs/Hughes) and it states his father as Nudrael ( a misprint maybe) born in Lee Co., VA and his mother as Martha Ann Fener, she was born in Hawkins Co., VA. She was the daughter of Gabriel Fener and a Ms. Arnold who was a descendent of Benedict Arnold. He states that Nudreal’s father was John Schoolcraft a Pennsylvanian who moved to Henry Co., KY , John father’s was Isaac Schoolcraft who came from Germany.
Also in this article he states that he served in the CW 7th KY Volunteers, Co A. and fought at the battle of Vicksburg, VA and Clempton Hill, Miss…… quoting ” At Clempton Hill, I was in an engagement. After being exposed to the fire of the enemy for sometime, Capt. Treadway ordered a retreat to save ourselves as best we could. Col. Lucas had ordered a retreat but Treadway did not hear it. This left our company along and when the Rebels had almost surrounded us our Capt. gave the above order. Up a long slope we ran, under fire, as I crossed the ridge and got out of danger I met General Sherman. His command was then for reinforcements. Grant was in command. I was walking leisurely along. Sherman said ” You are running.” “You are a liar” I replied, “You would have run if you had been where I was, no doubt.” I cocked my gun and would have killed him if he had said another word. I did not know at that time who it was that spoke to me “- unquote .
So thus my confusion on some of this!!!!
Thanks again for the suggestions and info.
Bushtick
Techteach, here’s another coincidence of location — an elderly cousin of mine, from the Hudson line out of Maryland, was raised on Pine Ridge. She was from a missionary family stationed there. It’s so odd our families have been almost the same places, over and over.
Linda:
Does your Hudson line begin in PA around Lancaster? I have thought my Huston line might also be written as Hudson.
Cindy
They first show up in Frederick, MD. These are the people I wrote about in this thread:
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=1700#post1700
Their pictures are there. The old lady is the one who had descendants who lived at Pine Ridge.
Linda:
Interesting that they might be Siouan and ended up at Pine Ridge, isn’t it? If I interpret my great-aunt’s memoir, the contingent who moved on west might have appeared more native than my ancestors did. She comments a great deal on my gggrandfather being the only child who inherited his white father’s blue eyes and lighter complexion. She also identifies the Sinkeys as having the closest ties to Indian.
Cindy
Hello , both of you need to see the movie “Walks far Woman” some mispronounciations but otherwise very interesting, you both need to see the “little goodie” re the fur traders.
Hey Tom,
Your people followed the same route too, didn’t they? I know Bill found your folks down south, but I found some of your folks around mine in Iowa which makes them only 2 counties from Linda’s. Is this because of the fur traders, is that what you mean? The records show that most of my ancestors were farmers or ran wood mills.
It has been my opinion that mixed folks had pipelines among their family groups and maybe their churches that passed along “safe” areas to settle. Anyone in the know, do you know if this is the case? I find lots of Methodists, Quakers, and Moravians in or close to my folks.
Cindy
Yes Tom,
Please post the info you have about the 7th KY Inf., I would like to research the battles they were in.
I am still confused about the two Martha’s (Patsey’s)???
The Michael Schoolcraft that other researchers have married to Martha Ann “Mary” Finn was the son of James Schoolcraft and Elizabeth Unknown – she is the one referred to as Shawnee. However the article I found about Madison Schoolcraft states his Daddy is Nudreal ( misprint I think) G Daddy as John , and G G daddy as Isaac? So as I said this just doesn’t add up.
My family oral history just went to James Madison Hughes Schoolcraft as the son of Michael Schoolcraft and a Arnold?
Also this family was, at least in my time, devout Seven Day Adventist, I notice Cindy’s post about Quakers and others religious beliefs.
Thanks for the offer.
Bushtick
Bushtick,
I think I offered the history of the 7th Ky Infantry.
……..
Source: “The Union Army”, vol. 4, p. 322 :
……..
Enlisted, died of disease or accident: 3.
Enlisted, killed or mortally wounded: 2.
Officers, died of disease or accident: 40.
(seems out of the ordinary and I suggest the enlisted and officers’ numbers have been reversed, as is supported by the discription of heavy casualties in its history.)
…………..
Colonels: Theophilus T. Garrard, Reuben May, George W. Monroe.
Lt. Cols: Joel W. Ridgell, John Lucas, T. J. Daniel.
Majors: Isaac H. Cardwell, Hugh W. Adams, Elisha B. Treadway.
This regiment was one of the first recruited in the state. It was organized at Camp Dick Robinson by Col. Garrard and mustered in the U.S. service by Gen George H. Thomas, Sept 22, 1861.
The engagement at Wild Cat was the first battle in whcih the regiment engaged, and in the spring of 1862 it participated in the expedition which resulted in the capture of Cumberland Gap. It was in the celebrated retreat across Kentucky and upon arriving at the Ohio River crossed to the Ohio side at Oak Hill.
It was then ordered to Gen. J.D. Cox in the Kanawha Valley and after remaining there a short time was ordered south to join the forces under Gen. Sherman, then advancing upon Vicksburg. In the late fall of 1862 it proceeded by river transport by way of Memphis to its destination and participated in the celebrated assault at Chickasaw Bluffs, which was a failure and great loss was incurred.
It remained with the forces under Gen. Sherman and when Grant took charge of the Vicksburg expedition , participated in all the movements, labors and service incident thereto — moving down the river below the city, crossing to the east side, marching out to Jackson, Miss., then turning and fighting the various battles preceding the siege, and was in the siege until the surrender (of Vicksburg).
In Dec. 1863, the regiment reenlisted, and in the veteran organization, received the veterans of the 19th and 22nd Ky Infantry. It remained on duty in the Department of the Gulf and in May 1864, was ordered to join the Red River expedition under command of Gen. Banks, in which campaign it suffered severely in killed, wounded and prisoners.
It then remained at Baton Rouge doing garrison duty until May 1, 1865, when it was ordered to Clinton, East Feliciana Parish, La. It remained at Clinton ordered to Baton Rouge where was mustered out on May 11, 1866, and embarked for Louisville, Ky, at which place it received final payment and discharge.
Battles fought:
Ship Island, Miss. (probably out of sequence.)
28 September 1861, Camp Boone, Ky.
18 August 1862, Flat Lick, Ky.
29 August 1862, Knox County, Ky.
28 October 1862, Williamsburg, Ky.
26 December 1862, Chickasaw Bayou, Miss.
29 December 1862, Chickasaw Bluffs, Miss.
16 May 1863, Champion Hills, Miss.
22 May 1863, Vicksburg, Miss.
11 July 1863, Jackson, Miss.
4 May 1864, Comitee River, La.
…………
Bill
P.S. – Benedict Arnold removed to England and died there. His kids did not live in the U.S. as far as I can determine. Your Arnold lady is too young to be his dau., don’t know if she could be a neice, etc. It is possible this Arnold line is a different one that I have traced earlier in this area and time period. More to come in a later post.
Sorry Bill about the name mix up……thanks for the history of the 7th.
The quoted newpaper article ( Kentucky Explorer, Volume 10, No 3- August 1995 pp. 84-85 . By permission. Henry Co. recorded in the 1870’s and beyond) stated that ” My mother was Martha Ann Fener. She was born in VA near Richmond, Hawkins County, I believe. She was the daughter of Gabriel Fener and a Miss Arnold, his wife whose given name I do not remember. She was a descendant of Benedict Arnold, his granddaughter. This is what my mother told me. Her mother died when she was an infant. Col. Staples raised my mother. He was a very wealthy man , had a great many slaves. My mother had a brother, Richard Fener, who was living in VA when the war broke out, He was a rich owner of slaves and a Rebel. I have never heard of him since. The Arnolds of Lee Co., KY are descended from my grandmother’s brother.”
This is where I got that information from and as I have said I am not even for sure this is my line!! My family oral history has her as a Arnold , no first name and not a Fener. It is like she was given her mother’s maiden name and not her father’s name.
But I am happy to get the info about the 7th and can research the battles and maybe derive more info to determine that.
Thanks again.
Bushtick
Hello well to answer some of the questions, yes my family did move along the same lines as others did, and I think that it is no small coincindence since so many other families did aswell. I would say that it is safe to say that these families probably new where the safe areas were, I have often entertained the notion that they may have known each other,my folks always moved to areas that had large native populations, I know that my Grandmother wqas treated for polio while she lived in Nebraska, also my family lived on a reserve in Kansas for a while.
My family were Methodists, you know “Baptists that could read”! just an old joke up here.
Anyway, as you see many of our families did move from Va /NC-Tn into Indiana /WI and into Iowa.
Then my family were around around Oklahoma for a bit into the midwest and west and then on to Canada.
The Legend of Walks far woman has a Cherokee store keeper at the trading post he never told anyone until he got to know Walks far Woman, Cherokee people and thier cousins filled many roles in the early old west, really very neat.
I have heard in my family that my Great Grandmother was John Wesley Hardins ( the gun fighter)second cousin.
I wonder if John Wesley Hardin was an old “Saponi Towner”? all the best Tom.
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