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At least 20 Occaneechi descendants also applied; all were rejected by the commission as not being of Eastern Cherokee ancestry. Among these were Aaron Thomas Guy, born in Caswell County, North Carolina, the son of Henry Guy and grandson of Henry Guy. Henry Guy, Sr., was the brother of Richard Guy, Buckner Guy, and others who moved to Macon County, North Carolina, from the Texas community in the 1820s. Aaron Guy stated that his mother was a free woman of color, born free and raised by the Quakers in Guilford County, North Carolina. There is also testimony from a former slave who knew Henry Guy, Jr., to the effect that he was an Indian, married to a colored woman. Aaron Guy was living in Indiana at the time of his application.
I am new to this forum. I have recently discovered that my George L. Guy was probably the grandson of Buckner Guy through his daughter Juda/Judith/Judy. My Greatgrandmother, George’s daughter, would NEVER talk about her heritage for some reason which made our research into our roots very difficult. Our family has always suspected there was Indian blood there somewhere but could never prove it. I still wonder what ‘our classification’ is: Indian/Black/White/Mullegeon etc???? This is all very complicated…. If anyone could help me figure out this Guy family mystery I would appreciate it!
Welcome, Haila. Where did you find that quote? Why do you think your George Guy was related to Buckner? Where was he living?
The quote was taken from a post on here… On census records my George was listed in the household with Buckner and his daughter Juda/Judith/Judy when he was a minor. Then when he was older, before he and my GGgrandmother married, he was head of household with his mother Juda/Judith/Judy living in the home (1880). ALso George’s death certificate names Judy Guy as his mother.
I went to visit Aunt Ruby last Sunday and she teared up when I told her what I had… she was so happy…..
Okay, the old feedback loop 🙂 It’s on this thread:
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3498&highlight=20+Occaneechi+descendants
Sammarroq, maybe you should give credits to the author, and a link.
Yes, I moved this to a new thread, you’re not seeing things. I would think the records you found are sufficient to show the relationship. Has someone told you you needed more than this?
June 7, 1860:Macon Co,NC Tennessee Valley,Franklin PO,stamped 228,dwelling 16/16
Buckner F Guy,age 63, mulatto, farmer b VA
Mary,age 35,mulatto b Orange Co
Juda, age 30,mulatto,b Macon
Silva, age 25,mulatto, b Macon
Henry J,age 19,mulatto, b Macon
Elizabeth, age 8, mulatto, b Macon
George, age 4, mulatto, b Macon
James Guy, age 50, mulatto, b Orange
June 18,1870: Macon Co,NC* pg 293 Ellijoy Township,Franklin PO,dwelling 19/21
Buckner Gay,77, b VA farmer
Mary,50,VA
Juda, 40, VA
Sylva,35,VA
Elizabeth, 20,NC
Geo. L, 15, NC
James, 58, VA* personal estate $292
Linda;33793 wrote: Okay, the old feedback loop 🙂 It’s on this thread:
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3498&highlight=20+Occaneechi+descendants
Sammarroq, maybe you should give credits to the author, and a link.
Yes, I moved this to a new thread, you’re not seeing things. I would think the records you found are sufficient to show the relationship. Has someone told you you needed more than this?
No, I was just wondering if there was more out there… details/proof of the lineage…. I found the http://www.occaneechi-saponi.com website and it’s application for tribal membership. What do you know about that?
The last I heard about the Occaneechi Saponi was that they were going for federal recognition and as such can only have people on their rolls who have remained in the physical community for the past 200 years. That was a few years ago, so I don’t know if they’re changed their position on that.
I googled “At least 20 Occaneechi descendants ” and I got this:
http://boards.ancestry.com.au/topics.ethnic.melungeon.melungeon/1815/mb.ashx
It’s originally at;
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/shades/nativeamericans/occaneechi.htm
I would also like to see original source material on the original Guy. As I understand it, his is one of only about six surnames that can be traced to tribal Saponi.
By the original Guy you mean William? What kind of information would you want? I have some Guy contacts whom I got my original information from, maybe they have what you are looking for. Most of what I know I’ve read on the Internet, which, I know is not always a valid source for information. I like to see the REAL documents!
Juda may have died before Death Certificates came into being. Not sure when they started, but my guess is 20th c.
I did a site search on “guy original source” and find a quote by Forest Hazel, the OSBN tribal historian who did a lot of the research that won them their state recognition.
A fair number of these names are based on supposition, not actual historical references. For example, while Will(iam) Jeffries attended the Brafferton School for Indians from 1736-1742, he is NOT identified as Saponi. He PROBABLY was, but that is based on putting together other bits and pieces of info. In point of actual fact, many of the students there were, from their surnames, Algonquin, not Siouan. Simon Jeffries and William Guy are NOT identified in any 1783 document from North Carolina as Catawba or Saponi, and none of the Haithcocks mentioned in the list are identified as Indian, let alone Saponi in either NC or Virginia. If anyone tells you I’m wrong on this, ask them for their original source and take a look at it for yourself.
The discussion is on this page http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=533&highlight=guy+original+source&page=2 and is referencing a list of names that have been associated with Saponi families with varying degrees of certainty/documentation.
There are different styles of researchers, those who are operating on a strict legal/scholastic standard. If one is looking for governmental recognition that’s imperative. If you’re research is more personal/casual, you’re trying to get a ‘best guess’ identification of who your family was to gain that kind of closure, there are researchers who operate on much more ‘creative’ levels, gut levels, ‘common sense’ levels. The fact that the Guy name keeps being mentioned among researchers, that’s it’s connected with other names that are documented, the fact that my best friend, Felicia (here on the forum) is a Guy with a family that’s always lived on one of the last bits of turf the Saponi/Tutelo are documented as occupying in the Upper South, look about as Indian as a body can, and the girls in her family were still doing steps from the Tutelo Women’s Shuffle back in the 30’s is enough for my money.
Hey Guys, just to make the connection, the Elizabeth on your list above is my g-g-gm. She married John Gibson to start with, the for some reason John end’s up with her sister and she relocates to South Carolina after marrying William Blackmon Phillips. I have no information on the Phillips family at all, except that they orginated in Wayne county, NC and my (Frankie Jane Phillips – Blackwell) was born in Waynesville, NC. Those are not close! Wayne county is in the sand belt, Waynesville is right between Asheville and the Cherokee Indian Reservation. Both of these ladies died in Clinton, SC. Elizabeth Ann Guy was known as Annie Mae in her last days and was a school teacher, mid-wife and ran a boarding house. According to what I can get from the records I’ve found, she must have been half Cherokee and half Catawba / Saponi. Notice that two ladies were known as Saponia on the roll they appear on in 1872. Otherwise, her brother George and others could not have made the claim to the Cherokee citizenship that was denied. Hope to hear from some of you soon. BTW – I’ve sent out cousin Darla an email to see if she will join the forum. Look for her – she’s a guru for this family history, even though she’s had a hard time fitting Elizabeth Ann in due to her being double identified.
That last post confused me after I read it, so I know it will all of you… To clarify, Buckner must have remarried for George and Elizabeth to have been born unless they were his grandchildren. His second wife was probably a Cherokee woman, Mary Anderson. If any of you can clear this up, I’d love to know the story and have it straight. So the line from Buckner as I interpret it is:
1) Buckner Guy
2) Elizabeth Ann Guy (Buckner signed her marriage license to John Gibson as her father.) no known children from this union, but 6 from second marriage to Walter Blackmon Philllips.
3) Frankie Jane Phillips
4) George William Blackwell
5) Diane (living)
6) Me
Linda;33793 wrote: Okay, the old feedback loop 🙂 It’s on this thread:
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3498&highlight=20+Occaneechi+descendants
Sammarroq, maybe you should give credits to the author, and a link.
Yes, I moved this to a new thread, you’re not seeing things. I would think the records you found are sufficient to show the relationship. Has someone told you you needed more than this?
Sorry:o…this info can be found in a number of links…see below:)
http://boards.rootsweb.com/topics.ethnic.melungeon.melungeon/1815.1/mb.ashx
http://www.occaneechi-saponi.org/history_2.html
http://www.ermp.tv/eno-river-tribe.php
http://www.ibiblio.org/dig/html/split/report48b.html
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