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Hi everyone
I am passing on website of artifacts that are for sale on ebay.
They are from VA and S. VA.
Please be aware……sigh
they are from area…
http://www.macenw.org/artifacts,c715,11,ur.html
some other items are from other areas..
thanks
D
Hi again D,
hm hm hm ooook WOW this is a really sensative subject for me, so I apoligise now once again if I unitentionally offend anyone.
AAAHHHHHH I swear if I see another sacred item on ebay I am going to SCREAM!!!
ok I may not know the seller but it may be likely he has indegenous ancestry and that is why his or her grandfather collected those items, ok maybe I am being judgemental and I will reconcile that with the Creator, but come on when is enough , enough?
I love ebay buuut it is turning into the degradation garage sale of indegenous tools.
D honestly the arrow heads and hammers, thats just the tip of the Iceburg, I cannot tell you how many times I have seen Sacred Pipes for sale on ebay, pipes that were not important to the family that it was passed down to and they put in the attic somewhere, came across it one day and said, OH Lets Sell it ON Ebay.
Ok some people dont want their sacreds, take it to a tribal elder call a tribe and pass it back, so it might go to good use!
Just dont sell it on Ebay, you know?
Please tell me my other Brothers and Sisters are concerned about this?
Thanks D for putting that out there, it is so important that our people are aware that this is happening.
Maybe I am over reacting… sigh NO no I am not
infact I am going to try to email the seller, I promise I will be nice and as diplomatic as possible. Some times Nice goes along way.
Ok so I emailed the seller I guess we will see if he responds.
I basicly asked him if he ever thought about returning his “artifacts” to any of the tribes that were in the areas where they came from, or if he would consider donating some of his sale to any Native organizations. I also told him that if he was interested and he was unsure of what tribes where in the areas of the artifacts found, that I could help him locate them.
Hey it’s worth a shot!
Hi Christina:
I fully agree with you. (So, don’t take the “dryness” of my post to mean anything. Yes, it is sad, that if people have Native ancestry
and well are selling their own culture!
I agree with you.
If it went back to the source…wow.
(re to people etc.)
Man. WEll, thank you for doing what you did.
Just a side note….there were items on this link when I posted it that were fromDanville area of VA. Also east coast….Powahtan stuff etc. (it was arrowheads, axe, some metal objects)
I did not see pipes.
However, you are bringing the point to this person…nomatter where teh items come from.
So, just wanted to let you know…I do not know if those items were sold or not.
However, you look at it…this particular dealer, or site is dealing with alot of artifacts.
On ebay itself….I checked for pipes…just to see waht was “out there” wow….lots from all over…some new, some replicas, but I was saddened to see legit, old pipes.
so agree with your agh etc.
Thanks again and for letting people know.
I will do asearch again to see if there are more local,VA, items.
(but the issue is all over.)
THanks
Deb
Your Post was not dry, I am glad you put it up on the board, sometimes these are the things that I need to lite fires under my but to do something, instead of talking about it.
My own philosophy is if your gonna talk the talk you better walk the walk, but you have to know when to pick your battles, this is just one of those battles that I wont give up on. I may not win the battle but atleast i put forth my heart to change things.
It’s not an easy battle and it never will be.
I think that even if it is “Just a Tool” or “Just an Arrowhead”
I think it would be a nice consideration to offer them back, because they do belong to someones tribe or ancestor.
And I see you found the Pipes, Yea I think my favorite part is when the seller has the bowl attached to the stem when they photograph it. They must be praying when they take that picture, you think? JERKS!!! it just amazes me, that they actually sell the pipes. For all we know these people are grave robbers, and believe me, that has happened.
Happy Canadian Day Deb;)
I enjoy your posts
Sorry, that’s too bad. The materials I saw when I put up original post are no longer there. (grrr someone bought them)
Axe, other items. A couple from Danville VA area,re were from VA.
There are arrowheads from Mattaponi area on now..(well last I checked a few days ago)
Thanks for trying though!
Keep in touch.
Deb
Originally posted by mrspatino
Still no email from the seller
sigh, more artifacts on ebay…
these are the oldest pipes i saw there. others listed were “peace pipes” but who knows, some of them could be “legit’. all the same, disrespectful and just updating this thread.
i didnt see anything related to VA but all the same.
they go for a “low” price, i just wondered if any group anywhere had thought of buying and then returning them where they should go. (back to site they were from, if known)
my 2 cents
deb
Hey Deb, the last one you listed is a trade pipe, not so much an issue since many were traded into and out of the areas that they are found in altho this one could be from any where.
The second is a Cherokee pipe so you may want to contact them, the first one looks like it’s from your area.
Thanx for the post.
Most of those items were likely found objects. We lived on farmland in Snow Hill NC, the family who owned the fields behind us had owned it since it was first settled in the 1700’s. They had a pond there in the 1800’s, it was gone, all wooded when we first moved there. Then the owner decided to build another pond. They logged out all the timber and excavated.
The thing is, it was a Tuscarora village site. My then-husband would go out walking after a rain and find tons of arrowheads and shards. Many men made many an arrow lounging in their village along that creek. So many defective, would-be arrowheads were all over the place
It was from that that I learned about the Tuscarora massacre there in Snow Hill in 1713, and from there began to learn about my Blackfoot family.
Are those arrowheads sacred? They are, but there are so many millions of them everywhere in this country. What should be done with them? If they’re fluted they are thousands of years old. Who do they belong to? There’s no way of knowing.
We contacted local archeologists, hoping someone would take an interest. The Fort Neheroka site had been excavated. Every creek in the country was covered with village sites. In Tuscarora days, Greene county was the most populous area in the state. Here’s a photo tour I put together for someone from the Tuscarora reservation in NY who’d visited the site, http://tuscaroras.com/fortneoheroka/.
So, anyway, I don’t think many of these items are family heirlooms, so I don’t think it’s appropriate to judge the sellers as people selling their birthrights. Archeologically speaking, as long as you aren’t actually digging these items up intentionally, but rather picking up what nature has uncovered, you’re doing no harm. In a way, you’re saving them for being eroded to dust. And if you can get information about the site to an archeologist, you may be helping to uncover a wealth of information about some of our lost tribes.
Hi there Tom:
(Or I guess I should say Macou :D)
I’ve seen your posts but I don’t think we’ve really “chatted” so I will say hi. (To fellow person who is “way up north” like (me north of the M-D line and the other line, but then again, it’s all Turtle Island).
Thanks for your post. From what little I have “seen” of different kinds of pipes, I don’t like to “outrule” right away that they may have been ceremonial. I know folks may have seen more types etc. but it shouldn’t be outruled. (Hence my posting of all different kinds from ebay)
I believe the first one is probably ceremonial. (Point? should be put BACK where it was). I also think the 2nd one is too.
With the bottom pic I think the one in teh middle is. (earlier than others)
Re getting pipes, that is tricky business. (I guess ordering them but then things would have to be done “properly” to put them back where they belong)
Thanks for post though.
Here is another link I found with artifacts, and pipes.
(yes, who knows where some of these are from)
Hi there Linda:
Thanks for your post.
Arrowheads, yes, they can be all over the place, and re time period it can be hard to tell at times. (I’ve tried alittle bit of “flintknapping” HARD WORK!!!!! It’s a SKILL!)
fyi, I know of people of different Nations (Native) that feel that arrowheads, np, they were used. Of course they are important, BUT it is the things that were used for ceremonies, meaning especially pipes, that are important. These shouldn’t be “hawked” on Ebay etc. but reburied back where they were or somethign similar.
Thanks, re info re NC, and trying to contact people. (I’m also diong more reading re the fort thanks to your links!)
It’s also to great tow work with people (arch) if able. That I understand. I didn’t mean to come across judging. Alot of people don’t know what they find. I guess the more you know the more you react. I know what I know due to my experiences over teh last fwe years.
Also, I worked at a site
click on parks, then crawford lake, then (sorry long thread here)
scroll down to “ipix” icon. it shows you the longhouses.
it is a village (1300s or so) that was built overtop of actual site. (so run into different things re art. etc.. It was there, that I “went to source” and in a round about way…ended up ehre… 🙂 (getting some old answers) )
Anyways, I don’;t mean to soudn preachy just importance and respect for certain items in general.
If anyone wants to email about this, see my id with my yahoo address and email away.
Pila Huc,
Deb
🙂
PS thanks for all your posts Linda and knowledge, keep it coming!
QUOTE]Originally posted by Linda
Most of those items were likely found objects. We lived on farmland in Snow Hill NC, the family who owned the fields behind us had owned it since it was first settled in the 1700’s. They had a pond there in the 1800’s, it was gone, all wooded when we first moved there. Then the owner decided to build another pond. They logged out all the timber and excavated.
The thing is, it was a Tuscarora village site. My then-husband would go out walking after a rain and find tons of arrowheads and shards. Many men made many an arrow lounging in their village along that creek. So many defective, would-be arrowheads were all over the place
It was from that that I learned about the Tuscarora massacre there in Snow Hill in 1713, and from there began to learn about my Blackfoot family.
Are those arrowheads sacred? They are, but there are so many millions of them everywhere in this country. What should be done with them? If they’re fluted they are thousands of years old. Who do they belong to? There’s no way of knowing.
We contacted local archeologists, hoping someone would take an interest. The Fort Neheroka site had been excavated. Every creek in the country was covered with village sites. In Tuscarora days, Greene county was the most populous area in the state. Here’s a photo tour I put together for someone from the Tuscarora reservation in NY who’d visited the site, http://tuscaroras.com/fortneoheroka/.
So, anyway, I don’t think many of these items are family heirlooms, so I don’t think it’s appropriate to judge the sellers as people selling their birthrights. Archeologically speaking, as long as you aren’t actually digging these items up intentionally, but rather picking up what nature has uncovered, you’re doing no harm. In a way, you’re saving them for being eroded to dust. And if you can get information about the site to an archeologist, you may be helping to uncover a wealth of information about some of our lost tribes. [/QUOTE]
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