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Get a load of this one. It’s from the Executive Journals of Virginia, May ye first, 1688. It’s claiming that the Indians living in Pamunkey Neck and southside Blackwater requested the English to please come and take their lands, move into the neighborhood, and protect them from the “foreign” Indians attacking them.
What makes this even more interesting is that, in the paragraph above it, the Council is voting to send a large amount of money to protect the Five Nations, particularly the Seneca, from the warfare of the French Canadians. I may be wrong, but I strongly suspect that the “foreign” Indians preying on the southside VA Indians WERE the Seneca.
Anybody know if I’m wrong here? I know it was the Seneca who were preying upon the Saponi in the 1720’s. (In the end, there were more Saponi living as Seneca war captives, than there were at Fort Christanna.) Was it principally them raiding in ‘the 1680’s? If so, this is quite a neat real estate scheme. Bolster the local Indians’ enemies, so the locals will have no choice but give you a lot of their land once they become too weak to defend it.
His Majesties governor and Councell of this his Maj’ties Colony,
with all Humility begg leave to represent unto his Maj’tie, that many
yeares since, in some of the Extreame parts of this his Maj’ties Colony,
Considerable Quantityes of Land, were appoynted and layd out for
the use and benefitt of the Indyans, as namely the Pomunky Neck
and the Southside of blackwater, where there was then Inhabiting, very
Considerable Nations of Indyans, Consisting of Great Numbers, but
are now wasted and dwinled away, however doe hold and possess all
those Considerable Tracts of Lands, which when they were a Numerous
People, were Allotted for them, and being of large Extent, makes little
an Inroade to the Foreigne Indyans, who have made frequent Attempts
upon those poore, and weake townes of Indyans, and being Sencible
how unable they are to defend themselves, against any Such Attempts,
and finding that Such large Tracts of Land, are of noe benifitt nor use
unto them, Have therefore humbly petitioned his Excellency, that his
Excellency would be pleased to admitt, his Maj’ties subjects of this
Country, who were desirous to remove themselves into those parts, to
Survey and Seale Pomunky Neck, and the Southside of blackwater,
from whose Neighbourhood, the Indyans Exspect to have protection,
and likewise reliefe in their now most indigent way of liveing there-
fore this Board are humbly of the Opinion, that as it will be as great Satis-
faction, to yo’r Maj’ties Subjects, to be admitted to Survey and Seate,
those uninhabited parts of yo’r Maj’ties Country, alwaies reserveing and
Continueing to the Indyans, Such Quantityes of Land as they shall
declare themselves Satisfied with, both in Pomunky Neck, and the
Southside of the black-Water, by which meanes Lands lyeing in those
parts of the country, from which yo’r Maj’tie now receives noe benifitt
of Quit rents, will if Seated and Inhabited make a good Addition to the
Revenue of Quitrents, of this yo’r Maj’ties Colony and Dominion of
Virg’a.
Dear Linda,
Thanks for sharing this information with us all. I don’t really think that the Indians were asking the european settlers to move in. It seems like the author of the information from the Executive Journal of Va. was in turn telling the Council & Governor what they should do regarding Va. Indian land. As he states that they are not receiving any money via “Quit rent”, from the Indians of that area. So it boils down to money. They took advantage of the Indians by saying that their population had decreased, & they didn’t feel that the Indians needed the large tracts of land. Quit rent may be an old term, however the meaning of it is still used by lawyers today but in a different way! A few years ago I was forced to “Quit Claim” property that I didn’t even know I owned part of. My great-great grandmother went through almost the exact same thing as I did. Funny how history repeats itself within families if we search long enough. 🙁 Quit Claim simply means you hand over your right to said property, without receiving any money.
I do know that Virginia Indians did ask for help regarding foreign Indian attacks upon them. There are two Tribes that did attack Va. Indians. First of all, the Monacan Tribe wasn’t friendly with the Powhatan Indians. The only outside Tribe that created trouble with Va. Indians was the Shawnee Tribe. However they prettty much came down into the Va. mountains and fought with Indians of that area. As far as I know they did not bother the Indians along the coastline. Please correct me if I’m mistaken. Supposedly the Shawnee would come down to fight and then flee northward again. I have a suspicion that the Shawnee stayed a little longer than we are led to believe. As one of my ancestors is buried at a place called “Shawnee Hill”, located in the Va. mountains. No one seems to know the history of this area.
Thanks again.
Sincerely,
CoheesLady
Disclaimer: Due to the fact that it’s 5 am, and I have not slept yet, please excuse any mistakes that I overlook. 😀
Linda,
Can you give me a location as to where this Pumunkey Neck and south side of Blackwater lies today? Are we talking about this property still lying within the border of what is today Virginia or further north?
Old Thomas Collins sold land on the Pumunkey River in 1747 but that was in what was then Louisa County Virginia.
1743 Saint Fredrick’s Parish Register (Published) Procession Gilbert Gibson, Thomas Gibson and 200 acres for Thomas Collings. (Louisa County, Virginia)
They begin selling their land in Louisa County. VA in 1747 and migrated to the Flatt River area of then Granville County, North Carolina this area became Orange County in 1753.
1747 Thomas Collins sells 184 acres of land on the south side of the Pamunkey River on Turkey Run Creek to John Dowell for 25 Ibs. (Louisa County, Va. ref..in Melungeons and Other Pioneer Families)
Other Collins men who were associated with Thomas Collins Sr. in New Kent, later Louisa County, Va. were probably his brothers. They were Samuel Collins, John Collins and William Collins.
Is Louisa County this area that you are talking about?
Brenda
The record does state that these Indians are asking for the whites to move in.
being Sencible how unable they are to defend themselves, against any Such Attempts, and finding that Such large Tracts of Land, are of noe benifitt nor use unto them, Have therefore humbly petitioned his Excellency, that his Excellency would be pleased to admitt, his Maj’ties subjects of this Country, who were desirous to remove themselves into those parts
So I guess the issue is if this is an outright lie, though I think they may have been up against the wall and had no choice but the fire or the frying pan.
We need to find out who the “foreign” Indians were. I don’t know if the League had gotten that far yet, but they definetely were a factor in dismantling the Siouan population in VA. Daniel Richter, in his “Ordeal of the Longhouse” does a good job of explaining the “Mourning Wars” and why there was so much fighting amongst tribes. It all has to do with the arms race introduced by the whites. The whites would trade guns for furs. You had no choice but to get guns, because if you didn’t your enemy would. Before long you’d trap out the furs in your territory so you had no choice but to enter someone else’s. On top of that, the diseases had seriously weakened everyone. All tribes were at risk of collapsing and the contest was to see who could grab as many people from their enemies’ camps as possible. As it turned out, the Iroquois won that contest, which was a bit suprising, at the outset of the 1600’s they were definitely the dark horse.
I’ve been contacted by a Saponi descendant in Ohio who has Seneca friends there who are aware that they descend from Saponi captives. The VA Siouan tribes died out, but not the people. They survived under other banners, either “whitë,” “black,” “Seneca” or “Cayuga.”
I don’t know either, where Pomunkey neck is, or Blackwater. I’ll see if I can ask someone to come take a look at this thread. I have a feeling we’re talking about Pamunkey, Algonquin tribes.
Cohee:
My Shawnee ancestors were living on the banks of the Opequon in villages as late as 1792. There are records of their purchase of that land and the villages are marked on old maps. They lost their land in a law suit, though, at the end of the Revolution, as they bought it from Lord Fairfax. Then they moved to Ohio. Anyway, they were sedentary Shawnee. I know that not all were; earlier, they used large areas of PA and Kentucky as hunting grounds without living there. Maybe mine represent a small number too.
Cindy
The lady I was thinking about who might know more has gotten back to me. She says her knowledge is just from secondary sources, so she doesn’t want to be quoted as a “history oracle.”
The Pamunkey Neck is between the Pamunkey and Mattaponi Rivers. The Blackwater River is in Southhampton County, she believes.
Based on what she’s read in secondary sources like Greach, Rountree and McCarthy, the “foreign Indians” may have been the Senecas, or possibly the Doegs, (whoever they are) or the Susquahannocks. (Maybe too late for the Susquehannocks. The Occaneechi were massacred in 1676, and the Susquehannocks were pretty well marginalized before then, so probably not them, unless there were still isolated bands striking out at others.
The person petitioning “His Excellency,” the Governor, may have been Cockacoeske (I take it the “Queen” of the Pamunkey) or the niece who succeeded her.
Folks,
Here is a link to a map where I found both rivers Linda spoke of above.
http://www.trevilians.com/creeks2.htm#top
The map is found on the Louisa County Genweb page but it labeled “Caroline County”.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~vaschs/BW.htm
Though some land was purchased from the Indians and some was given to the English by the Indians, it is generally conceded that most of the land acquired by the English in Tidewater Virginia was taken from the Indians without benefit of either purchase or gift. It was seized by conquest, eviction and appropriation and the Indian was denied further access to it.
The Virginia Company of London or the London Company, and later the English Crown, recognized the problem and many attempts were made to protect the rights of the Indians, all to no avail. As the flow of settlers increased and the demand for tobacco land grew, there was very little desire or willingness on the part of the new residents of Virginia to recognize that the previous inhabitants had any rights at all to the land.
The 1606 charter creating the London Company authorized it to settle a tract of land one hundred miles square in the southern part of that area extending from the thirty-fourth to the forty-first parallel, or from the Cape Fear River in present day North Carolina northward to New York City. The leading man in the London Company was Lord Salisbury.
The right to colonize the northern part of Virginia was granted to Sir John Popham, Lord Chief Justice of England. Thus it became common to call the north ban of the James River, “the Popham side” and the south bank, “the Salisbury side.“
The land was granted “in free and common soccage” with the holder a tenant of the Crown with obligations of fealty and of the payment of quitrents. Quitrents were a part of a system under which “the fixed rent replaced the service, military or personal, required under feudal law; and the soccage tenure in effect did not subject the lands to the rules of escheat or return of the land to the Crown if inherited by minors or widows.”
Brenda
The Doegs are described here:
http://www.historicprincewilliam.org/2nlet91.html I thought at first that they were my ancestors first. I misread Occoquan as Opequon, the river that my folks lived on.
Cindy
If the Doegs were part of the Powhatan group, I wonder why they would be fighting with their neighbors?
It is interesting to think that this unusual request came from a female leader. The Pamunkey Reservation is one of the oldest still in existence. So . . . it may seem like an odd move, asking the white folks to move in, but it may have been the wisest thing to do under the circumstances, if survival is your aim. They certainly did survive, while many of their neighbors are gone. Until the other day, I don’t think I’d ever heard of the Doeg, for example. Of course, this is assuming the request came from the Pamunkey, which is just an assumption on my part at this point.
Linda wrote: Get a load of this one. It’s from the Executive Journals of Virginia, May ye first, 1688. It’s claiming that the Indians living in Pamunkey Neck and southside Blackwater requested the English to please come and take their lands, move into the neighborhood, and protect them from the “foreign” Indians attacking them.
What makes this even more interesting is that, in the paragraph above it, the Council is voting to send a large amount of money to protect the Five Nations, particularly the Seneca, from the warfare of the French Canadians. I may be wrong, but I strongly suspect that the “foreign” Indians preying on the southside VA Indians WERE the Seneca.
Anybody know if I’m wrong here? I know it was the Seneca who were preying upon the Saponi in the 1720’s. (In the end, there were more Saponi living as Seneca war captives, than there were at Fort Christanna.) Was it principally them raiding in ‘the 1680’s? If so, this is quite a neat real estate scheme. Bolster the local Indians’ enemies, so the locals will have no choice but give you a lot of their land once they become too weak to defend it.
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I happened upon this one…makes one think…
Here’s where this is online:
It was part of a project I did for William & Mary, typing in all the historical references to Indians in the Executive Journals.
Linda wrote: Here’s where this is online:
It was part of a project I did for William & Mary, typing in all the historical references to Indians in the Executive Journals.
Thanks Linda for the link.:)
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