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In the Christian religion, humans are viewed as having only one soul. But some Native American religions believed that humans have multiple souls. For example, the Narragansett, the Huron, the Ojibwa and the Chippewa believed that humans have two souls. Other tribes, such as the Sheepeater Shoshone, felt that humans have three souls.
Many Native American tribes, including the Sioux, the Hopi, the Lenni Lenape, the Mandan, and the Gitxsan, believed in reincarnation.
Gitxsan writer Shirley Muldon asserts:
“We believe in reincarnation of people and animals. We believe that the dead can visit this world and that the living can enter the past. We believe that memory survives from generation to generation. Our elders remember the past because they have lived it.”
The Mandan also accepted reincarnation and believed that the child chose his or her mother. They believed in four souls, the principal soul being a shooting star which would appear in the sky at death.
How many on this forum have relatives who may have spoken of these beliefs or are themselves believers in reincarnation or multiple souls? Can anyone share any religious traditions in their family passed down from their Native American ancestors concerning reincarnation or multiple souls?
In 1728, Col. William Byrd II noted in his diary the basic tenets of Saponi religious beliefs, as described to him by his Saponi guide, Bearskin. Only one of the religious tenets reported by Bearskin, “a Hindu-like belief in reincarnation,” cannot be ascribed to possible Christian influence upon the Saponi by Europeans.
A highway marker in Virginia chronicles the religious beliefs of the Saponi, as described by Bearskin to Col. William Byrd II, on October 12-15, 1728. The link is at http://www.victorianvilla.com/sims-mitchell/local/native/saponi/vamkr/01/.
Bev Stayart;37884 wrote: In 1728, Col. William Byrd II noted in his diary the basic tenets of Saponi religious beliefs, as described to him by his Saponi guide, Bearskin. Only one of the religious tenets reported by Bearskin, “a Hindu-like belief in reincarnation,” cannot be ascribed to possible Christian influence upon the Saponi by Europeans.
A highway marker in Virginia chronicles the religious beliefs of the Saponi, as described by Bearskin to Col. William Byrd II, on October 12-15, 1728. The link is at http://www.victorianvilla.com/sims-mitchell/local/native/saponi/vamkr/01/.
Gussie, Thanks for that link. I usually cause controversy when I express my beliefs but I don’t disagree with what you have posted.
I think everything is connected and everything has a spark.
Here is a link to Byrd’s writings. The complete description that Ned Bearskin relates to Col. Byrd concerning his spiritual beliefs are on pages 51 and 52.
http://www.docsouth.unc.edu/nc/byrd/byrd.html
Dreaminghawk;37887 wrote: Gussie, Thanks for that link. I usually cause controversy when I express my beliefs but I don’t disagree with what you have posted.
I think everything is connected and everything has a spark.
In my opinion controversy always accompanies discussions of belief. There are individual beliefs within any group, it is really hard to generalize. For instance ‘Christian’ could be Catholic, Protestant, Quaker, Baptist, etc… and even within those sub-groups there are more sub-groups and individual beliefs within those. The only constant is change.
I’ve read Byrd’s account of Bearskin’s stories, but am not sure how much stock to put into it.
Since DreamingHawk has started the conversation, I guess I’ll risk controversy and wade in too.
The tradition passed down in my family is that an understanding of the spiritual world comes from being alone in nature. This is something common to my ancestors both Blackfoot and Quaker. It is difficult for me to seperate the two. Multiple souls is not a concept I’m familiar with from either group. As I understand it that is more of a North Asian tradition.
Reincarnation in some form seems like a given across many spiritual and non-spiritual ways of thinking, Native American and otherwise. Whether you believe in heaven and hell, coming back as an animal, DNA, or the law of conservation of mass, they all say the same basic thing. That new life is built on life that came before and is all connected.
Yeah, I think Byrd may have paraphrased some of Bearskin’s beliefs. …. and Bearskin may have phrased some in christianized form.
He did say only the souls who didn’t get it right the first time had to come back to this life and try again. They weren’t yet worthy to move on to the next world but were not permanently barred from moving on.
My family has always believed that all living things are connected through their God spark/soul. I was taught that if you ask an animal for it’s meat and are properly thankful that that animal will gladly give up its meat and be reborn as a new animal…. so I guess I believe that animals have souls and they get reincarnated.
Our soul/spirit may be like a double spirit, the yin/yang, the masculine/feminine.. … those who strongly feel both sides are often called “Two-Spirit.”
Earlier in Byrd’s diary, (maybe Apr?) one of his hunter/guides refuses to allow them to cook turkey with red meat… saying it went against his beliefs to mix the meats.
What I get from the Bearskin-Byrd interaction is that Bearskin and his people thought it was disrespectful to cook the two meats at once – bad medicine (my words). That Byrd and his people interpreted that as meaning something immediately bad like poison. Whereas Bearskin meant bad in a more long-term karmic way.
Like European and Native American views of the buffalo. Easy for a European to write off killing one buffalo disrespectfully in the moment. But on a longer time scale the population was decimated and only reconstituted from a small part of the original genetic pool from herds mainly in present day NWT. Lesson learned?
Much of what I learned in my family was through actions and spirit more than words. That way people live says even more than their words. My grandfather passed decades ago when I was 18. More than his words I remember how he acted, how he made me feel. Above all I remember his spirit.
I was taught that trees have spirits. Possibly the reincarnation of another living spirit – including human. That trees and other living things care about us and so we need to care about them. That if you are properly respectful of trees they give much back to you – like the tree of life. The ‘childrens’ book The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein is one example of this concept that I like to read to my daughters.
Multiple souls makes sense in the way you describe. The two-spirit idea is something that my sister and I have learned as well. I had never though about that as multiple souls before, but I see what you mean.
Burying the placenta under a tree is a tradition I see in line with a belief in reincarnation.
I think European and American cultures are actually much the same. It’s just that many don’t look at it on a long enough time scale. Trees are a core part of both cultural identities. Like with my family I learned my heritage as Blackfoot and German Quaker. Some of those Blackfoot are Tutelo that joined the Haudenosaunee – whose central symbol is the eastern white pine or great tree of peace. Part of those Germans were Prussians. Prussia the country no longer exists but their name lives on in the spruce tree (old French pruce for Prussian).
It’s hard to put these ideas into words.
I agree about plants having spirit…. all living things have a spirit even if it is just referred to as “a spark of life” but I think it is more than that. I had never really considered rocks having spirit but I know knappers who will swear that rocks have a living spirit. I do believe in “Elementals” who control the processes of Mother Earth.
Raised in a “devout” Southern Baptist tradition, it’s amazing how many of my family’s core beliefs are at odds with the church.
Dreaminghawk and Marc,
Thank you both for describing the generational influence the concepts of reincarnation and the soul have played in your respective families. Thanks also for the link to Col. William Byrd’s writings.
A book exploring these subjects by writer and lecturer Gary R. Varner, “Ghosts, Spirits & the Afterlife in Native American Folklore and Religion,” may be of interest to each of you. I am continually researching these topics, especially how the concept of reincarnation relates to Swiss psychiatrist Carl Gustav Jung’s theory of “synchronicity” and his ancestral memory concept of the “collective unconscious.”
As noted by another author, Warren Jefferson, “Many of the beliefs of North American Indians regarding reincarnation and the soul can be found in premodern societies throughout the world. If we can strip away the cultural influences and understand the limitations of experience and what is referred to as the ‘myth of the given,’ we see that what is being described are universal human experiences shared by people of all cultures since the beginning of time, even into the present.”
Gussie says: especially how the concept of reincarnation relates to Swiss psychiatrist Carl Gustav Jung’s theory of “synchronicity” and his ancestral memory concept of the “collective unconscious.”
Two concepts very prevalent in my and Becky’s life. Two concepts we accept as real and don’t question the why or how… just accept the gift and use it in a good way.
Example of synchronicity in our life. We need to put a new roof on Mom’s house. The new type metal roof instead of more shingles. A contractor buddy of mine had moved to TN several years before…. thought how he would be good to do the roof if he was in the area.
We were heading out on a 3 hour drive to visit some Elders. On US158 where it crosses I-85 we stopped at a Bojangles because I had to pee. Pulling into Bojangles at same time was my buddy, traveling on I-85, stopping because he had to pee. We talked, found out he had moved back to NC…living about 10 miles from Mom…. He’d love to do the work and I got his card. We were going to 2 different locations on 2 different roads and still crossed paths at the exact moment that we needed to. Why and How??? I don’t need to know…. just thank Creator and enjoy the blessing.
On “collective unconscious” …. any form of channeling or visiting the other world falls under this heading. Why and How it works? I don’t need to know….. just be careful and make good use of what is offered to you.
Dreaminghawk;37899 wrote: Gussie says: especially how the concept of reincarnation relates to Swiss psychiatrist Carl Gustav Jung’s theory of “synchronicity” and his ancestral memory concept of the “collective unconscious.”
Two concepts very prevalent in my and Becky’s life. Two concepts we accept as real and don’t question the why or how… just accept the gift and use it in a good way.
Example of synchronicity in our life. We need to put a new roof on Mom’s house. The new type metal roof instead of more shingles. A contractor buddy of mine had moved to TN several years before…. thought how he would be good to do the roof if he was in the area.
We were heading out on a 3 hour drive to visit some Elders. On US158 where it crosses I-85 we stopped at a Bojangles because I had to pee. Pulling into Bojangles at same time was my buddy, traveling on I-85, stopping because he had to pee. We talked, found out he had moved back to NC…living about 10 miles from Mom…. He’d love to do the work and I got his card. We were going to 2 different locations on 2 different roads and still crossed paths at the exact moment that we needed to. Why and How??? I don’t need to know…. just thank Creator and enjoy the blessing.
On “collective unconscious” …. any form of channeling or visiting the other world falls under this heading. Why and How it works? I don’t need to know….. just be careful and make good use of what is offered to you.
You may think I’m crazy, maybe not. About two years ago my wife and I felt our family was not complete. Because of certain situations it would have been impossible to have more children. We were visiting Muskogee Oklahoma and came across a turtle in the road. We stopped the car, I had planned to help the turtle cross the road so he wouldn’t be ran over. Just as I reached down for her I had a strong feeling to leave it be. We got back in the car and drove away. On our way back we traveled along the same road and noticed the turtle had not made it across the road. I felt horrible. This is where it gets crazy. A few days later that turtle came to me in a dream. She told me that she had died for a purpose and that I had a daughter on the way. I kept this dream to myself. About a week past and my wife told me she was expecting. When my daughter was born I could look into her eyes and swear I saw that turtle looking back at me.
I believe my daughter was a gift and a blessing from above. I’m not really sure how to rationalize the dream. ….or the turtle. The “collective unconscious ” is defiantly a crazy thing.
AH; Not crazy at all. Someone or something wanted to bestow a blessing on your family. You thank Creator and whatever other spirits may have had a part, including the turtle, and don’t try to figure it out. Trying WILL drive you crazy 😉
Reminds me of a question my daughter asked me tonight. I told her a story about how her mother and I met in Albuquerque. She asked if she was in her mothers belly then? I said, no you’re weren’t born yet. She asked, so where was I then?
anotherhelton;38408 wrote: You may think I’m crazy, maybe not. About two years ago my wife and I felt our family was not complete. Because of certain situations it would have been impossible to have more children. We were visiting Muskogee Oklahoma and came across a turtle in the road. We stopped the car, I had planned to help the turtle cross the road so he wouldn’t be ran over. Just as I reached down for her I had a strong feeling to leave it be. We got back in the car and drove away. On our way back we traveled along the same road and noticed the turtle had not made it across the road. I felt horrible. This is where it gets crazy. A few days later that turtle came to me in a dream. She told me that she had died for a purpose and that I had a daughter on the way. I kept this dream to myself. About a week past and my wife told me she was expecting. When my daughter was born I could look into her eyes and swear I saw that turtle looking back at me.
I believe my daughter was a gift and a blessing from above. I’m not really sure how to rationalize the dream. ….or the turtle. The “collective unconscious ” is defiantly a crazy thing.
You are definitely not crazy, but highly prophetic. It is significant that you had a fateful encounter with a turtle whose life you were never meant to save. (Don’t be upset — the turtle has ascended to a higher dimension.)
In Native American mythology, the turtle symbolizes both Mother Earth and Motherhood. Hence, this particular turtle predicted what was to be — the birth of your daughter. After your earthly encounter with the turtle, she then returned to you in a dream and told you that she had died for a purpose — the birth of your daughter.
Birth and death are opposite sides of the same coin. This is why you can clearly visualize the turtle when you gaze into your daughter’s eyes.
Thank you for sharing your personal story. You can learn more about the meaning of the turtle to Native Americans at http://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-american-symbols/turtle-symbol.htm.
Bev Stayart;37898 wrote: Dreaminghawk and Marc,
Thank you both for describing the generational influence the concepts of reincarnation and the soul have played in your respective families. Thanks also for the link to Col. William Byrd’s writings.
A book exploring these subjects by writer and lecturer Gary R. Varner, “Ghosts, Spirits & the Afterlife in Native American Folklore and Religion,” may be of interest to each of you. I am continually researching these topics, especially how the concept of reincarnation relates to Swiss psychiatrist Carl Gustav Jung’s theory of “synchronicity” and his ancestral memory concept of the “collective unconscious.”
As noted by another author, Warren Jefferson, “Many of the beliefs of North American Indians regarding reincarnation and the soul can be found in premodern societies throughout the world. If we can strip away the cultural influences and understand the limitations of experience and what is referred to as the ‘myth of the given,’ we see that what is being described are universal human experiences shared by people of all cultures since the beginning of time, even into the present.”
Indigenous peoples had a primitive intelligence which we lack. They were one with nature and the spirit world. What we view as progress may not be progress at all, but a perilous path from which there is no retreat.
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