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Lynella,
I do appreciate your interest. I have had little research time lately. By the way, my husband’s ‘double first cousin’ was Lindsey…..
Jane Black
Jane,
🙂 This is so abolutely fantastic!;) The family just keeps on growing. What a massive picnic this would make! Oh, all that food! Wow! Hunting makes me hungry! As I find info. on any Hodges and Lindseys I’ll drop you a line. And of coarse if I come up with anything else, too. Love & Light, Lynella.
Sandy —
Record of Doublehead’s death in the home of Mr. Black at the school mission is recorded in the Moravian Mission diaries (was told this by Jerri Chasteen through Cherokee genealogy group online). I haev never seen this diary, but Jerri is the most prominent and best known Cheroke genealogist alive today, and her word is good as gold.
It is the same Doublehead. But I have to mention that there is not a single bit of evidence that Cornblossom ever existed. Doublehead DOES have some descendants who are enrolled in the Cherokee Nation Oklahoma and and others enrolled in the Chickasaw Nation as a daughter of his married a Chickasaw Chief. Now these things are well documented.
Bird Doublehead (a descendant of Doublehead’s) killed one of the signers of the 1835 treaty, one of the Ridges I think it was, and it was this same Ridge that was one of the conspiritors that killed Doublehead some 30 years earlier. Bird Doublehead was a supporter of the Ross faction of the Cherokee Nation, contrary to some people who claim Doublehead and the Chickamaugas left the Cherokee Nation. There is a lot of fake Cherokee history that has been made popular with private websites.
This “Red Bird” online is said to be a descendant of Arron Brock through Jessee Brock. One website says these Brocks were in Kentucky then went to South Carolina before returning to Kentucky sometime after the Revolrionary War. Well in 1797 I believe Jessee Brock is in Lower Russell County, Virginia and is on the same tax records as my ancestor Nevil Wayland (Nevil Wayland was ALSO in SC at the end of the Rev War) for Lower Russell County. And there is a Red Bird who is documented as being killed in S Ky, and he is killed with a friend a fellow Cherokee whose name is not mentioned. But this murder was recorded in 1797, not 1811 as is claimed on those websites. So the same year you see a “Jessee Brock” on the Tax Rolls in Lower Russell County, Va”, there is a Cherokee named Red Bird murdered in South Central Kentucky. hmmm . . .
Also there is not a shred of evidence that there ever was a Yahoo Falls Massacres. I emailed local historians and archaeologists in S Ky and they confirmed this. I wrote Cherokee historians and they told me the same — that there was no Cornblossom (Cherokees who read this discount it immediately saying that is NOT a name any Cherokee would ever be given as Corn has no blossoms — it has tassels).
I keep up with this stort. 🙂 So read the following —
However —
http://courierjournal.com/features/2004/12/12/indian.html
I have emailed the Cherokee Nation and officials of the Cherokee Nation know of what these people in Kentucky are trying to do. I want to follow it closely as Cherokeee say this is fake history and those folks in Kentucky are saying it really happened. I think a big conflict is gonna come out of it. I hope if documentation of Kenneth Tankersley’s and Dan Troxells’ claims exists, they finally produce it, or they are gonna look silly and become discredited real real soon. I don’t know who is telling the truth, but I’d personally put my money on professional historians, archaeologists, and the historians of the Cherokee Nation before I’d believe the websites that do not document their claims. I think several people (not just me) on this list are interested in the outcome of all this.
I think those Brocks in SW Va may very well have been Indian, but they were not descended from “Red Bird” and might ot even be Cherokee, but might be like the rest of us, looking for a tribe to belong to. I might be wrong, I don’t know. As you know, I was burned by people making up a false genealogy about my family and I once believed it. Once gullible, shame on you, but twice, shame on me — I need to see the documentation or I’m gonna call his bluff. 🙂
My gut is telling me that this is a controversy that won’t go away until those websites are discredited and many people believing them it will be hurt, and that is a shame but they just believed what these folks were feeding them. I might be wrong, but I can live with that IF it forces them to provide some documentation of their claims. If there is no documentation then those folks shouldn’t be trying to rewrite history, as they are doing harm to folks who are looking into their family history trying to make sense of it.
vance
Vance:
Thank you for the information. All of this information and misinformation is becoming confusing!!!
I very much appreciate your response regarding Chief Red Bird and the Brock family. It forces me to continue to do more digging!
Does the name Nancy Day mean anything in the Cherokee or any other Nation that you are awear of?
Again, I really appreciate your answers and information. Granted, it puts a different slant on my research but I do want to get it right.
Sandy
There are several people looking for the “Day” surname. Do a search and you might find them.
It is possible that documentation of those websites does exist, but for some reason these people are afraid to supply it. I sincerely hope I am wrong, to be honest with you.
vance
One of the Ridges, a Mr Saunders, and James Vann were in on the plot to kill Doublehead. At the time however James Vann didn’t show up. Doublehead sought refuge in Mr Black’s home, and the killers went inside after him. Mr Jonothan Black was a teacher at a Christian Mission school run by the Presbyterians. He was hired by and worked for Rev. Blackburn, the same Rev mentioned in the story of Yahoo Falls that you see on the internet. There was a struggle and Doublehead was killed. This happened in 1807.
Interestingly, within 2 years James Vann was mysteriously murdered near his home which was near the Moravian Mission. As with Doublehead’s death, no one was ever convicted of the crime. About 1839 or 40 Doublehead’s son or grandson (I forget which — I mentioned him earlier, Bird Doublehead) killed another conspirator, Mr Ridge, in the Cherokee Nation in what is now Oklahoma. I don’t know what happened to Mr Saunders.
Doublehead was killed and it was sanctioned by the Cherokee Nation because he signed a treaty giving away Cherokee Lands. Well in the 1835 treaty the Ridges, Elias Bodenaut (spelling is faulty), and Stand Waite were the leaders of the “Ridge Faction” or the “Treaty Party” and they signed away the last of the Cherokee Lands in the East. So by the same Cherokee law that had Doblehead killed, these men were sentenced to death, and the priveledge of killing (there were 2 Ridges killed and i forget which one is the one that killed Doublehead) Mr Ridge, the one that killed Doublehead, was given to a descendant of Doublehead’s. Stand Waite heard of the attempt on his life and fled, later to become famous in the Civil War as the last Confederate general to surrender. The Keetoowah Societies were started to fight against Stand Waite. Waite was pro-Slavery and the Keetoowah Societies were anti-slavery, and they raised Cherokee warriors that fought for the Union. They were the Traditional Cherokee people, and were mostly full-bloods whereas the Confederates were mostly mixed-bloods.
I personally think this whole story would make a great movie . . . 🙂
vance
Vance,
You’re right, it would make a great movie. That’s fascinating! You amaze me!:) How do you retain all this history? I print it all and try to read it a few times, but retain all the details? That is totally awsome!;) So, where can I get a brain like yours?;) Love & Light, Lynella.
Hey! I don’t know if it applies to you or not, but very near the bottom (about 1 1/2 to 2 inches on the little slide bar on the right) in the Leslie Cemetary post I saw a couple of Dye folks burried there. A Clayton Dye and a Mabel Avery Dye. I was checking for something else and saw them zoom by! Just thought I’d let ya’ know. Love & Light, Lynella.
Hello, I am still here! I have started working on the Black Family Tree on Ancestry.com. I haven’t begun the Hodge line and do expect that there are errors in the tree, especially as I attempt to trace farther back. I may have gotten incorrectly side tracked into the Randolph family. The tree is public. Jane
Hello, perhaps this question might be addressed to Bill Childs…. Do you think that Rosa (Rose) Lee Haggard could have been one of the unknown
females born to Levi Green Haggard b. 1824 KY and Charlotte Hodge
b. 1839 Ky? One of the girls was born 1867 KY and the other born
1869 KY. The age would be within reason. Rosa Lee Haggard Black was my husband’s paternal grandmother. I’ve not been able to locate more than this possible link. Elsworth Haggard b. 1866-1870 KY, a brother to the unknown females of this family and his second wife, Celestia (sp?),
maiden name also Haggard, b.1878 KY, married 1896 KY, migrated to Saint Lucie County, Fort Pierce, Florida about 1915, at the same time as Lindsey Grant Black b. 1873 KY, and Rose Lee Haggard Black b. 1867,1869,1874? KY, married 1894, KY, migrated to a nearby island in Indian River County, Florida. Elsworth Haggard (I haven’t figured if this is the same Elsworth Haggard.), Lindsey Grant Black, Rosa (Rose) Lee Haggard Black, and their first born son, (Ira) Virgil Black, age 1, my husband’s father, were in southern Indiana at the time of the 1900 Census. Family testimony states that these Haggards were related, but so far I haven’t located anyone who knows just how they were related.
“They were Rose Lee’s family”, is common knowledge among those remaining in my husband’s family. I understand that both Rose Lee and Celestia died in Florida. I fairly sure that both Elsworth Haggard and Lindsey Grant Black died in Florida.
Thanks again for your time, Janeskatch.
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