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I am what I am and who I am because of my parents, my mother and her, my, our ancestors.
We can’t loose sight of the goal or theme in that we want to know the truth, what ever it may be. With all the details and pitfalls and guilded ladders, we just have to keep searching and learning and sharing and teaching and hoping that our ancestors will be proven to not only having existed, but continue to exist through us.
I am so gratefull that what ever forces brought Linda to put this site together and what ever forces bring us here to work together, did it. Because, I’d still be standing around with the Blackfoot Cemetery stashed in my head along with a bunch of names and I’d be nowhere. I’ve learned a lot here, more than I am worthy of. I am just thankful I found you guys and I’m here. It’s about sharing information, not arguing and trying to manipulate the belief systems of others. I’m not saying that’s what anyone is doing I just worry that durring these tiny conflicts between us sometimes that it will sort of like open a doorway that will lead to such decietfullness, and I love you all and don’t ever want that to happen. So, now that I’m done and you have all fallen asleep, I believe I will mozy on and see what our other fellows are up to!;) Love & Light, Lynella.
P.S. Don’t get me wrong, I am not a little mary sunshine ALL the time. Ask anyone who truly knows all of me! I like to pick a good fight and fight a good battle too, but the battles must be chosen carefully and strategically, or you end up listening to the prattle of some little twerp like me!!:D
L:
Can you or your brother establish a link to Edward Ricketts/Chaney Ricketts/Reson Ricketts to the Ricketts in the Blackfoot cemetery? Edward Jr. of PA, is recorded on genealogy.com as having married “an Indian squaw.” His line follows a movement pattern that Brenda Ferrell Sampson, Bess Veney, and I have been poking at. That is your Blackfoot ID isn’t it?
Techteach
Well perhaps I should respond, remember the SOP it up thing?
I had to laugh at that even with the side dish of Crow!
If I stay on topic I do much better.
I want to make one thing clear, “do not type cast me”, like the rest of you I have been around for more than a day or two when it comes to reseacrh of all types.
If I call myself a ” born again heathen”, or say not Iam not a “full blooded white guy” or even “ethnically challenged” then let me do it.
Iam not pointing fingers at you just me, I have had to learn to laugh at myself and I do it very well!
If I “Stay on Topic”, or atleast the most reasoanble line of conversation that wont heat up and I’ll be okay!
Any way I look at it, this site has done more for the Blackfoot diaspora than any other singular effort!
Thanks Linda!
Tom,
I’m proud of you! There’s a bit of heathen in me too! I’m even more proud that you eat that side of crow with such dignity!:D Love & Light, Lynella.
I really regret I was not around when this thread first started. I would have posted the link to the article we have linked on the main page, http://www.saponitown.com/blackfoot.htm It summarizes the research we’ve done to date on the evidence indicating a Saponi Blackfoot presence in the southeast. I don’t think anyone can read that and summarily dismiss our efforts.
Interesting that first link Tommy gave dismissing us was to the Native-languages site. I have another site, http://www.greattradingpath.com, where various vendors sell their crafts. Being southeastern, not many of the vendors have BIA cards.
We used to be #1 for Native American Drums but were drummed out of that position (sorry for the pun) by the native-languages site. They only deal with federally recognized vendors.
That’s all well and good and I don’t begrudge them what they’ve accomplished, but it’s naive to think they are unbiased. Everyone’s biased. As they say in the Philosophy of Science, there are no facts. There are only theories. When we forget that, we lose touch with the very heart of science.
I liked Tommy and was thankful to have him here — I felt he & I were sorta kindred spirits — I felt that. We need people who will question some things that we sometimes don’t question enough.
He would have done that, and I believe he would have been welcomed in that role. I still think if we all emailed him saying we hold nothing personal against him and welcomed his comments, he might come back. He did misunderstand things, but then so have I, and I still do sometimes.
I think Tommy was an important voice here even tho he wasn’t here very long, and we ought to think about what made him leave, and how we can prevent people who come here from leaving so abruptly — like they do with the space shuttle — when it malfunctions the analize why.
This is why I am so cautious about terminology — he lives in Colorado hence has heard tales like I heard, about “fake Indians” or made up tribes in the East, with all kinds of warnings to beware of these groups — we hear that on the western side of the Mississippi all the time. Even if he might have been born in the East, he has heard all of that stuff that I have heard by living west of the Mississippi, and he has lived near full bloods too out in SW Colorado — Ute to his west Navajo to his SW and Pueblo to his SE and a few others — i think there are over 100,00 Navajo alone, most of them ARE full bloods or nearly so. So he’s heard the same tales I’ve heard, I bet.
Where the Cherokee are concerned Tommy is right — there is a lot of nonsense fake made-up tribes that have mislead many honest people — Chickamauga tribe of this place and Chickamauga Cherokee of that place — all over the place.
But such shoddy genealogy and made up history HAS distracted away from REAL genealogy and REAL history. When these people enroll in the “Chickamauga Tribe of Never Never Land Cherokees” — federally enrolled people think “he/she just bought a bottle of “Snake Oil Cure All” sold by some quacky wacky doctor with a license to practice medicine that she/he bought on over internet from Quacky-Wacky University.
When we see honest people don’t take this research, our baby, seriously — the reason can be traced back to little cult leaders (who are calling themselves “Chief Black Bear” or something like that) who create a tribe and website on the internet, and most of these groups unfortunately claim to be Cherokee. Many of these groups never did exist in any real sense. There are REAL pockets of “lost” descendants of Cherokee — but they’d be better served to seek something like what we are doing, creating a “Cherokee Descendants Association” or something like that, rather than calling themselvs a tribe. State recognized Cherokee groups in some states warn people of some of these groups, and we ought to as well — take the offensive.
We need to distance ourselves from such groups, and maybe even warn people against them if we have evidence they are publishing false information over the internet, so that we don’t get lumped together with them. Maybe lobby state legislatures (I believe Lynne Pepper mentioned this recently) so states without a state recognition process could be educated of this problem. Would this have kept Tommy from walking away, or made him less critical of our efforts? — I don’t know, but it might have . . .
vance
Vance,
You and the others make very valid points here. I would love to join the Eastern Souian Descendants Assoc. I think the title is fitting, and the FACT that it isn’t called Tribe, Nation etc..is wonderful. I too have been a very embaressed victum of some folks who where misleading alot of good hearted people( no doubt most, if not all of them a TRUE NA background) down the road of ridicule and being laughed at for bieng a member of the Wanna-Be Chickamauga Cherokee Nation of the Week lead by our Chief Princess Know-it-all. Vance as you may know Missouri is running rampit with them ol’ Wanna-Be Scam Cherokeet Nations and Tribes. I haven’t been to any PowWows in several years now, and when I did go, and ID’d myself as
“belonging” to this certian Unnamed Cherokeet Tribe of the Louisiana Territory more often(80% +) than not people, especially those of Western Nations would give me the fish eye. I want to be Pride of my ancestory, and am proud to say I am Blackfoot . I feel that by calling ourselves an Association is a very safe way to avoid any of this unwanted negetivaty.
Charles
PS Please overlook the misspellings, and pardon the rambling.
Originally posted by Linda
I really regret I was not around when this thread first started. I would have posted the link to the article we have linked on the main page, http://www.saponitown.com/blackfoot.htm. It summarizes the research we’ve done to date on the evidence indicating a Saponi Blackfoot presence in the southeast. I don’t think anyone can read that and summarily dismiss our efforts. ]
Linda,
I read again your Blackfoot paper and it still holds together well for me. Here are two little snippits to support the migration routes:
1. This paper can be found at the American Philosophical Association, which has a Native American collection. [I haven’t had a chance to read it yet. Not sure if I will have to go to Philadelphia someday, or if there is another way!] http://www.amphilsoc.org/library/guides/indians/info/penn.htm
4651. MASON, JOHN ALDEN. The Indians of Pennsylvania; Sept. 1957. T.D. 20pp. c.c.
Re: the Delaware, Susquehannock, Erie, Wenrohronon, Honniasont, and the transitory Mohegan, Seneca, Oneida, Wyandot, Ottawa, Tuscarora, Saponi, Tutelo, Nanticokes, Conoy, Shawnee, and Munsee. Written for the Pennsylvania Historical Commission.
[4017(C20)]
(I would like to know more about the Honniasont, too).
2. I have seen a couple of accounts of Willliam Crawford’s ill-fated SANDUSKY Ohio campaign. A Dr. Knight who is with him escapes, while Crawford, of course, is burned. Anyway, there is an Indian who guards Dr. Knight who is called TUTELO. My guess is that this wasn’t really his name, but that he was Tutelo. I count it as an Ohio “sighting”. Also, the quote about the Seneca of the Sandusky being remnants of Logan’s band and a mixture of Indians, few of whom were Seneca, can be found, I seem to remember, in Henry Howe’s History of Ohio….
http://thorin.adnc.com/~galliher/FAM28.HTM
“The following morning, Dr. Knight under the guard of the giant Indian named Tutelo, had his face blackened and was then taken away to be led to a Shawnee village some forty miles distant. On the way they passed the spot where Crawford had been executed, and Knight saw the bones and charred remains of his commanding officer laying in the ashes of the fire. While on the journey, Knight managed to escape from his guard by hitting him over the head with a heavy stick while the Indian was engaged in tending a fire. The blow knocked the surprised savage face down into the fire, at which he sprang up howling with pain and rushed off into the forest. Thereupon, Dr. Knight made his painful way back to Fort McIntosh subsisting on berries and nettles, a “raw tarrapin!” and two young birds. After three weeks of wandering in the wilderness, he reached the Fort with the full dreadful tiding of Crawford’s execution (94) “
Reference:
(“94) Knight and John Slover, one of the pilots of the expedition who made a spectacular escape from the Indians as they were going to burn him, wrote and published together, their memoirs and stories of the expedition, including the death of Crawford and their own sufferings and escape from death. It was published at Philadelphia in the year 1783 and is referred to by Butterfield as the “Knight and Slover… cannot read rest of footnote. “
[Wennonawoods republished this 1783 account a few years ago. I would like to check out their copy to see if it agrees with the above, or adds more. Note that 1783 is pretty fresh and I think of it as a primary account by Knight of his ordeal.]
Incidently, William Crawford was initially before the wars a trader. He, too, was in Orange Co., VA early on before he moved up to western PA. He had a daughter, Nancy Connell, with Ann Connell [see his will at the provided link]. This Nancy married Thomas MOUNTS, who was a son of Providence MOUNTS, who in turn was one of at least two sons of Joseph MOUNTS of Orange County VA, an adult c. 1732. Joseph MOUNTS ws an Indian trader, son of Swede Charles MOUNTS ANDERSON who was a trader and interpreter. The descendants of Thomas and Nancy Connell Mounts tell me they wound up in Indiana finally after a period in KY. They met when their families were living in PA, area that is present day Fayette County.
Brenda
Thanks Brenda, I should work those references into the article.
If you all notice I haven’t done that, remind me. You know how afflicted my poor memory is.
Linda
While you are at it, you might add the reference to Shikellemy’s 2nd wife that I posted in the other thread here on Blackfoot Indians a day or two ago. I found a site in Canada where it is noted that Shikellemy’s second wife was Tutelo. That is, if it is not already in your article.
Techteach
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