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http://www.ah.dcr.state.nc.us/sections/hp/colonial/Bookshelf/Moravian/diary1.htm?
from the Moravian writings in NC website it says
They had spent the night beyond Dan River at the home of Mr. Gest, a pleasant man, who had taken good care of them. Next day Br. Loesch went with them a little further, then turned back, calling again on Mr. Gest, from whom he purchased some cattle.
. . .
and
Dec. 26th. Br. Jacob Loesch held the morning prayer. Peterson and Merkli went some twenty miles from here, across Dan River, to Mr. Gest, to get several head of cattle.
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http://www.ah.dcr.state.nc.us/sections/hp/colonial/Bookshelf/Moravian/extracts.htm?
1755
Meantime a man from the Little Yatkin came to the smithy, and without knowing what had happened here last night told us that the people on the Yatkin were planning to get together, in order to be safer from the Indians. Mr. Benner returned during the afternoon and remained over night. We spent the day to good advantage, though near the house, for we did not want any of the Brethren to be far away. Doors and window-frames were made, and other work done on the new building. We divided the night-watch, one Brother to watch until 1 A.M. and the other from then until dawn, instead of one man taking the entire night as heretofore.
July 22. A so-called Dunkard or Bearded Man came to the smithy. He has just come from New River with his entire family, fearing to remain there longer because of the Indians, who are wandering about. Although his home was only about seventy miles from here the journey has taken them three weeks, as they had no other road to take than to the Roanoke. The man told us that some ten weeks ago a man named Stahlnekker, living on Holston River, about 100 miles from the New River Settlement, had been captured by the Indians, and his entire family murdered. It was believed that he would be cruelly tortured, since the Indians hated him. A few days before the Dunkard left several families had been attacked, and part murdered, part captured; and the last night before his flight the family of one of his nearest neighbors had been murdered, only three miles from him. So far as the man knew 28 persons had been killed or taken prisoner. When the man reached the Roanoke he found other refugees from New River, but it was no place to stay, for the settlers there were much alarmed by the news they brought; so this man decided to take his family to the Town Fork, twelve miles from here. There he found Mr. Altem and his family packing up and moving; so the poor fellow is at a loss to know what to do next. When his work at the smithy was finished he went back to his people on the Town Fork.
July 24. Work was resumed as usual. We heard many reports, especially that people were moving away from this neighborhood. Mr. Benner begged that he and his family might remain with us, and this request was granted, and our old cabin was cleared out for him.
July 25. Mr. Benner’s brother-in-law and the younger Mr. Guest were here, and said that their settlement also was going to move, but they did not yet know where. In the evening we had conference, and decided what to do in case it became impossible for us to remain here, for instance, to bury all our iron implements in the creek, and to bury in the ground all else that would not be injured that way. We also agreed to keep ourselves well supplied with provisions, especially meal, for Br. Lischer, who has been to the mill today, reports that the miller is leaving tomorrow, though he will leave his mill in such condition that any one who wishes meal ground
Aug. 8. Yesterday the Brn. Benzien and Loesch returned from a visit to Mr. Guest on Dan River, and report that everything is again uncertain. Today Mr. Altem, his family, and another family living two miles from him, arrived unexpectedly, saying they did not feel safe at home and asking to remain with us. We received them kindly, and again lodged them in the cabins.
Aug. 12. Br. Kalberlahn went to the Yatkin to see Hans Wagner, who has been very ill, but is now better. Mr. Crank, his wife and two children came to see the doctor, and remained over night, as did also young Mr. Guest. A man came from the Yatkin and offered to sell us his 50 head of cattle and 800 bushels of corn, as he wishes to move away. Br. Loesch promised to go and see the cattle; and on the 15th bargained with him for £35 for the lot, large and small together.
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Above mentions Indian attacks on White settlers on the New River and Yadkin Rivers in the summer of 1755.
The “young” Mr. Guest is mentioned. Is this Nathaniel, Christopher’s son?
vance
http://digital.library.okstate.edu/Chronicles/v015/v015p003.html
Here is what I intnded to bring up a couple of months ago, but never got around to it. Here are some excerpts —
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The founder of the Gist family, of Maryland, was Christopher Gist, or Guest, who migrated from England and settled in Maryland on the south side of the Patapsco river in 1682, but removed in 1691 to Baltimore county. He married Edith Cromwell, of the family of the great Oliver Cromwell, lord protector of England. Their son, Richard (1684-1741), was the father of Christopher Gist, who is known in history as explorer of the West in 1750 and as guide of young George Washington in the Ohio river region in 1753 to ascertain the strength of the French. His journal of the expedition is the foundation of much of the early history of the west.
Christopher Gist II married Sarah Howard in Maryland, where three sons were born to them:
First—Richard Gist, Sept. 2, 1729, who was killed in the battle of King’s Mountain, 1780.
Second—Nathaniel Gist, our subject, who was born Oct. 15, 1733.
Third—Thomas, who is said to have settled in Kentucky after the Revolutionary war, in which he was a training officer.
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In 1754, at the age of 20, Nathaniel Gist was among the Overhill Cherokees.He and another young Virginian, eight years older than he, Richard Pearis, were engaged in the trade to those Indians, Pearis operating from Long Island of the Holston (the present Kingsport) in partnership with Thomas Price. The goods were supplied by Christopher Gist, who earlier had been in the mercantile business in Baltimore.
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More blamable for the defeat of Gen. Braddock and the death of that officer than this private dispute was the adverse attitude of Gov. Glen, in the view of Gov. Dinwiddie, who wrote to Gov. Dobbs, of North Carolina, on July 28, 1755: “If Mr. Glen, agreeable to promise, had prevailed over a number of Cherokee and Catawba warriors to join our forces we should not in all probability have been defeated, as they would have attacked the Indians in their bush way of fighting, which the regulars are strangers to
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Nathaniel Gist was delegated assistant under Atkin to take care of 200 Cherokees then in Virginia to aid that colony in the recovery of ground and prestige lost in 1755. No doubt this designation of Gist was due to his acquaintance with these Indians, but the service was not rendered by him in East Tennessee. He is said to have led those Indian auxiliaries in the successful campaign of Gen. Forbes in 1758.
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Two days before, Forbes had written to the great English statesman, William Pitt, of the Cherokees, then with him and his regulars: “If they leave us we shall lose the best part of our strength as all northern Indians, mostly our enemies, were kept in awe by the presence of so many Cherokees.”
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Col. Gist took with him to Virginia seventeen Cherokee warriors, including The Pidgeon, who were embodied in his command, the regiment being assigned to its first duty on the east shore of that state. Gist, in 1778, was an advocate of a fuller use of Indians in the American army.
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“When I was moving out to Kentucky in the spring of ’93 I left my company some distance before we reached Redstone (now Brownsville). I understood Col. Gist had arrived with a large number of slaves and was encamped about a half mile above the creek from which the old fort had taken its name. I called on Col. Gist at his encampment. I found him sitting under his markee which, no doubt, had protected him and his brother officers from the storms of many a cold and dreary night. He was a venerable looking man, I should think near 60 years of age; stout-framed and about six feet high and of a dark complexion.
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vance
I wonder if these Gists might have been related in any way to th Saponi.
I read Gov. Spotswood controlled Virginia Indian traders through his company and used Fort Christianna to help him. Nathaniel Gist (b. 1733) was an Indian trader in the 1750s. Granted this was after Spotswood’s time, but did his trading company still exist?
Nathaniel’s mother was a Howard from Maryland and the Howards are associated with mixed bloods people. When was “Blackfoot Town” in Maryland in existence?
http://www.cherokee.org/Culture/HistoryPage.asp?ID=192
At the above link on the official Cherokee Nation website it says —
The only certain information regarding his [note: meaning Sequoyah] father is a statement made during Sequoyah’s lifetime about his father, which appeared in the Cherokee Phoenix (August 13, 1828). This stated his paternal grandfather was a white man. Sequoyah’s father was half Cherokee and his mother a full blood. His father’s name has been identified as either George Gist, a German peddler, or Nathaniel Gist, a friend of George Washington’s and ancestor of the Blair family of Washington, D.C.
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Could Sequoyah have said his father was half-Cherokee when in reality he might have been half-Saponi? Many others seem to do that. But 1828 when sequoyah made that statement he might have been like many others of Saponi heritage, claiming Cherokee heritge because it was a tribe that still thrived. I’d like to read that “Cherokee Phoenix” article of August 13th, 1828. I wonder if Sequoyah’s father was half-Saponi, not half-Cherokee, perhaps through the Howard’s. However these Howards were supposed to have been a well known WHITE family. But also note where it said in the last link that Nathaniel Gist was dark complected, as one would expect from someone who was half-Indian.
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There are a lot of questions about these Gist’s. It is interesting Sequoyah said his father was half Indian and most people think his father was Nathaniel Gist. There are a lot of contradictions and everything just doesn’t add up.
There are a lot of Gists who can trace ancestors to north-central Alabama who “think” they are related to Sequoyah but are not sure how, whose ancestry seems to just die out before reaching the “known” white Gist’s. Many of these have told me they have photos of ancestors that “look” Indian.
I don’t know if this can be resolved or not, but it is interesting . . .
Vance
I went to the “Gist” genforum board and searched for “saponi” on it.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?Saponi::gist::1094.html
Here is a link of a Thomas O. Gist to “Saponi Dave Collins”. I have talked to the person who listed this message via email, but I never knew she had a link to the Saponi and/or Melungeons before reading this post of hers. Her Thomas Gist married a McNutt and my David Brown and Hariet Guess raised an orphan boy named “Thomas McNutt” who was only about 10 years younger than they were. Thomas married Orlena Brown, David’s much younger sister, in Arkansas. Hariet’s “supposed but not proven father was a Thomas Gist, but a different one from the one mentioned above.
She says her Gists were dark complected and looked Indian. Her Gists lived near where mine did (near Lawrence County, Alabama) and i am just about certain they are related, expecially with the McNutts (I wonder if that is the same as McKnight?).
Unproven family story says my Hariet Guess was “Sequoyah’s niece or great niece”. Dad talked about his Uncles and I also called them “Uncle” even tho they were grandmas brothers, and my great uncles. No one would ever think of calling an Uncle, a “great uncle”, however. For this reason, if the family story is true, I’d suspect he might have been a “great-uncle.”
I ownder what elwe I will find conecdting Gists with the Saponi? Maybe I should have looked into this long ago.
vance
vance hawkins wrote: Thanks Linda.
I am gonna try and add a photo of my great great grandma (Harriet [Guess] Brown) and a baby, my great grandma, (Jospehine [Brown] Richey). Since Josephine was born 1854 that pretty much dates the timeframe this tin-type was taken.
and
vance
Where is your Brown line from? My ggrandmother Sara Brown was from Surry County Va.
Beaver Clan
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