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My Family history seems to have an interesting dead end: My mother, born 1910 in Albany NY, was the daughter of Catherine Owens (Irish Orphan) and Harry O’Neill. O’Neill is according to family lore, the son of a Tutelo “princess” & is really named Tutelo Harry of Albany who owned or worked in a plumbing store. Gram & Harry were never married and Harry was supposed to have died of alcohloism prior to 1947. Gram was born in Albany in 1886; Harry was several years older. The family pronounced Tutelo as if it rhymed with Kettle-o and I’ve just recently discovered the Tutelo possible connection.
Any info. on Tutelo O’Neills in Albany NY would be really helpful!
Thanks.
Fascinating family story. How far is Albany from Ithaca? The Tutelo are documented there. We’ve seen good evidence in general of Saponi/Tutelo people who melted into the landscape of Upper New York State. I haven’t heard the name O’Neill before, but from what you say, that name just married in a few generations back. It would certainly be nice to find your gr grandmother’s maiden name. It could also reveal a community of Tutelo. Hope you’ll stick around and we can get somewhere with this.
Hey Leonard happy to see you here, I hope that you will stick around and enjoy the scenery, join in and let us get to know you, there’s much to know and a great place to share and learn , Welcome!
Hi, Leonard,
Can you give us any additional information on Catherine or Harry? I couldn’t pull anything up on census records that fit your original information.
Bill
Hi Bill! Thanks for question. Catherine (last name Owens) was born in 1886 in Albany N.Y. Her parents immigrated from Ireland via England in the early 1880’s. Her mother died in a typhoid or yellow fever epidemic and her father remarried & then was killed in a ditch cave-in. The children, 2 or 3 girls, were taken from the stepmother because of neglect and were put in an orphanage run by Dominican Sisters in Albany. Catherine was trained as a domestic and left the orphanage at 18. The link to Harry is very vague. Catherine became pregnant by Harry O’Neill and the birth of Mary (My Mother) was recordrd with Harry O’Neill as the father. Catherine married Ernest Albert when my mother was 14. A conversation between Catherine and Ernest’s brotrher was overheard by me. In that conversation, Catherine asks her brother-in-law (Andrew) if he has heard of Harry. Andrew replies with anger “That dirty Indian! He’s Mary’s father isn’t he.” Catherine replies that he’s not a dirty Indian but a Tutelo whose real name is Tutelo Harry and that his Mother is a Tutelo princess. Catherine says “Those people pass everything down through the mother’s side; their names, their posessions, their history – everything.” Andrew said Harry drank too much and Catherine said that was ever the problem. Andrew said it killed him and that ended the conversation. My grandmother never spoke of it again.
Now Catherine pronounced Tutelo like it was spelled Tettelo or Tettero and I’ve spent years looking for some Tettelo Indians among the Indians of New York State. A friend recently suggested I look under Tutelo & BINGO! The problem is I can’t find anything about Harry O’Neill aka Tutelo Harry.
That is, indeed, a very interesting story. Linda, I think that we need to do more on the Tutelo and how many actually stayed behind. The only good name we have to follow right now in VA is Buck but I have to wonder about the Bugg name as well. Maybe someone on the forum here would consider doing a spreadsheet to cross reference the Colonial VA names and those that were in the Utica area and Canada as well. ??????
Paul quotes in his book, an Indian from the Tugyebugg Nation. My interpretation is she belonged “To Ye Bugg” Nation (family). This is 18th century English so the dialect is still using “Ye”. She was located in Lunenburg Co.
Hey Bill! Some more info on my Grandmother & Mother: Gram (Catherine Owens) moved to Troy, NY in 1912 or 1913 as a live in cook & housekeeper for a man named Ernest Albert who had three children. The address was Gurley Avenue. Catherine brought my mother (Mary Owens) with her. My mother never used the O’Neill name, despite the reference to Harry O’Neill on her birth Certificate. Around 1924 Catherine married Ernest Albert and continued to live with him on Gurley Avenue untill about 1937 when she joined my mother in New York City (Staten Island.)
Harry O’Neill (Tutelo Harry, son of a Tutelo Princess) apparently remained in Albany which is not far from Troy. There is also some connection to a town called Eagle Mills, but I can’t recall the details. Neither my mother or grandmother would ever admit or discuss any Indian connection but were remarkably pleased and supportive when I became heavily involved in an Indian Lore and dancing program supported by the Boy Scouts in New York in the 1950’s. I was mentored by a Mohawk named James Stewart or Stuart but he knew nothing about Tettelo Indians.
Yes, I had found Catherine Owens as a “Servant” in the household of Ernest Albert (widowed) in 1920 Rensselaer Co., Troy, NY (next door to Albany County).
Catherine is listed as born in Mass on both the 1920 and 1930 census. On the 1920 census, she is listed as “widowed” with her father born in Scotland and mother born in Ireland. On the 1930 census (at 7 Gurley St.), she is listed as having been married at 17 yrs old with both parents born in England (Technically correct – parts of Ireland and all of Scotland being a part of the United Kingdom).
There is a Harry O’Neill in 1910 Albany Co., NY. [He’s 39, born in Penn., a Traveling Salesman, was married twice, the last time for 4 yrs to Mabel Beyer (maiden name is presumed as his single sister-in-law Adina Beyer, lived with them.)] I’m still kicking this around because I have reservations that he is the Harry O’Neill we’re looking for.
f.y.i…. Ernest Albert’s first wife was “Gussie”, b.abt.1879 Germany, immigrated to U.S. in 1896 per 1910 census.
WOW! Bill, you really have gotten some great info. on my grandmother. Catherine was born in November 1886 and my mother always assumed she was born in Albany. Gram had no birth cert. and church records of baptism were burned in a fire. There was supposed to be an uncle (brother of Catherine’s father) with the surname of Owens in North Adams MA. No contact was ever made but there was a first cousin of Catherine’s, Frank Owens who lived in Long Meadow MA.
My Mother (Mary) was born in August of 1910 and Gram would have been 24 at conception & delivery. The Harry you have found would have been 38 or 39 at conception and that just seems too old. However, wasn’t there a remnant of Tutelo living in PA near the Susquehana river? I wonder if this Harry could have been born near or in this Tutelo community.
How are you accessing the census data for 1910, 1920 & 1930? This seems to be a goldmine.
Thanks, Bill!
The 1920 & 1930 census obtained thru a subscription to ancestry.com. The 1910 census thru genealogy.com.
I’m thinking this Tutelo family is connected to the Tutelo of Six Nations. That’s in Brantford, Ontario. I’m not sure how far it is from Albany, but I don’t think it’s that far. I guess the bit of dialogue you reported pertaining to the matrilineal descent suggested that.
The only segment of the Piedmont Siouan who are reported in mainstream historical accounts are the Tutelo, who were adopted by the Cayuga in the 1750’s. They remained as a distinct community till around the 1890’s when an epidemic carried many of them off. The survivors were absorbed into the Cayuga. There are many descendants still there. Some say there are Cayuga up there with a passing interest in their Cayuga heritage, but who light up when the subject of Tutelos comes up, since it’s a neglected part of their heritage they strongly identify with. Up there, it’s pronounced “tootleeoh.”
The mainstream accounts note the last location of the Saponi was near Niagara. Then they disappear from history. The next to the last locations for them were Cayuga and I believe, Onandaga counties in upstate New York. In the early 1800’s a number of names can be found on the census for those counties that read like a list of commonly mentioned Saponi surnames.
Thanks very much, Linda! I’ll have to start looking in Ontario. The history of Albany NY indicates that there were many Typhoid, Cholera, Scarlet fever and Yellow fever epidemics from about 1865 through to about 1900. The cause was private wells being contaminated by backyard privys. Many folks at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder found work digging ditches for city sewer projects and the Erie Canal at this time. These same folks were hardest hit by epidemics because they lacked basic health needs (clean water) and were often crowded together in flats or tenements with no access to medical care. Irish immigrants and Native Americans often met the same fate because they were poor and considered dirty or low class.
Harry O’Neill aka Tutelo Harry and his mother remain a mystery for the present. Thanks again!
Yes, if Harry were 39 in 1910, then he could have been a child at Six Nations while the Tutelo were still a distinct community there. I don’t remember the dates of the epidemic, but it wouldn’t be that hard to find. It may even be in the Swanton material I have linked on the main page of this site.
Having lived through such traumatic times — losing all his kin and being the ‘last’ of the tribe would have been a hard burden to bear. It wouldn’t be surprising if he turned to drink. Someone that sad can also be very touching. No reason to discount your Ancestors’ relationship as trite. It’s good you’re remembering and honoring them.
The “princess” bit may also be helpful. It does need to be taken with a grain of salt, since “white” families with an Indian Ancestress tended to crown her royal in order to ‘legitimatize” her in racist eyes. But, if she were kin to one of the head men or women, it may be helpful in tracking your Harry. Perhaps there’s record of the children of that last generation still called Tutelo. I would suppose tribal rolls were being kept then. The League was heavily controlled by the gov’t at that time.
Linda, Thank you again! Do you know of an address or web contact for Six Nations? Your reasoning is sound and this may well be the best place to search for the missing Harry.
Len
Hey Len.,
I was just reading through things here and came across this. It is very interesting. Linda makes good sense of it. Did you try e-mailing Tom. Just a shot in the dark, but he might know the Six Nations address. Surely, if not you could maybe check with one of the Gov. offices over the telephone. Perhaps they could get you there. Good Journey, Lynella.:)
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