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Hello All…
Just wanted to see what everyones concensus on this matter would be…
Some time ago, I learned that researchers at Howard University in Washington DC began taking blood from volunteers willing to undergo DNA matching to link themselves with African Tribes. The process is very costly (I think about $2000-$3000 at that time), and it took several months to come back with the results. However the testing is very accurate in placing the test subjects with specific tribal groups and even villages in West Africa.
With that in mind, could not the same procedures be done here in the US to link people with specific tribes, clans, and even families??? I’m sure doing such testing would keep lots of people honest, and even solve historical myths, or even disputes between groups.
Even though many of us are here sharing experiences on this site because most if not all of us are of mixed ancestetry, and it is possible that we are mixed with more tribes/ethnic groups than we originally thought, but this form of testing is extremly accurate, and could help many people and tribal groups…
I hadn’t heard of any testing that would be that specific. I heard of the MtDNA test which will show you which of a dozen or so “Eves” you descend from on your purely matrilineal line. So the vast majority of your ancestors it would tell you nothing about. That test costs $200.
I’ve heard of another one that goes along the patrilineal line, but there were limitations to that. If you could find some links with info on this test, I’d be interested in it.
I’m skeptical that it would show you ALL the tribes/clans you come from, and without that, I would expect it might cause more trouble than it creates. You know, somebody who’s 100% positive he’s Tuscarora, say, takes the test and it’s positive for Angolan. He might be 7/8’s Tuscarora, but the test only shows the 1/128th Angolan in his family tree. Something like that.
Then there’s the situation of the Chinese Jews who, following WWII, returned to Israel after a few thousand years. There was controvery over whether they should be accepted as Israelis. A comprehensive test on their ethnic make up likely would show very little Jewish blood, but it was decided that since they were and had apparently always been practicing Jews, they were Jews. A correct decision in my opinion.
I just thought up a hypothetical situation. What if the Nazis had won WWII, and annihilated all of European and American Jewry? Then a hundred years later they are deposed and thoroughly reviled. In all the revelations of the atrocities of the Third Reich, it’s learned that the largest surviving community of Jews exists in China. There’s a rebirth of Judaism, only the benchmark for Jewishness is now biologically Chinese. Weird but it’s happened. The Finnish I’ve been told are biologically mostly germanic, but in the 19th century, after some novels captured the national imagination, people began speaking Finnish again and now it’s the national language.
To add more onto this topic… I saw a program the History Channel did on Geneaology research. It was very informative and may help any of you doing family research. It did a small segment on the San Gabriel Tribe in California. The tribe is currently unrecognized, and consisted of a few people as of a couple of years ago. They have managed to pull together enough paper evidence to show that they were a tribe with dealings with the US Government. Their kicker was to show DNA evidence from 500 year-old remains found near a construction site. If the DNA is a match, then the evidence is 100% conclusive.
And to add onto the validity of DNA testing, from what I hear it is pretty accurate. It’s not a simple as putting a drop of blood into a machine, and it telling you what you are, instead it looks for common traits and sequences. Families, groups, etc all share some form of common thread. It’s a matter of identifying it, and seeing who else matches. For example, all DNA protiens are linked together on a helix in this sequence A-T, and G-C. Arrange those pairs in different orders you get a varierty of things. Suppose for all Navajo’s, the 4th pair of protiens is A-T followed by G-C, and then by G-C again, and it occurs only with those who are Navajo. All you have to do is look for someone who comes pretty close to that.
All researchers need to verify someone being Saponi is to find a source that is 100% Saponi beyond any question of a doubt (either living or as remains). Even today where the blood lines have been thined and mixed. Researchers can compare DNA of numerous people looking for a common thread throughout…
Well thats all I’ve got. I think it is something worth looking into. I’m no biologist, I’m trying to remember this stuff from Biology and A&P, so some of it may be wrong. But I hope this gets some people on the right track…
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You Light It, I’ll Fight It…
To All,
Why don’t we ask for proof when a person says they are English, Scot., or Irish? Or better yet make them take a DNA test to prove it & also make them carry a card!
CoheeLady
hello, well say that you are a full blooded Blackfoot, and one of your grandmothers was part white from wherever, when you did your dna, you are now Irish etc, following a strickly maternal line doe’s not do any thing but confuse the issues.
It’s not up to me to prove who Iam ,it’s up to “them” to prove who Iam not!
An Old Cheif once said that if a person says that is who they are then they probably are, just let them be!
BTA, Tom
With DNA testing you can identify the individual Irish genetic strain, just as well as you can identify the Blackfoot strain. There has to be a “control” sample that is unquestionably, 100% Irish, or Blackfoot, or whatever you are searching for. Scientist usually take a cross section of many different people to identifiy more that one common link. Many African Americans are using it to trace their ancestry to East African tribal and ethnic groups. The procedure is very expensive, but highly accurate.
I would like to see some DNA testing done of remains in this area, trying to find links to some of the many Native descended communities with such a confused history of who all they derive from. It may help to put aside some of the confusion and contention.
Linda,
I agree that DNA samples should be taken, from remains that are already “in storage”, in different states. However we need to look ahead, at what this may mean to those that are living. Will people be judged as “not Indian”, because they don’t fit into a certain DNA study? Will families be removed from their homes on reservations, because they “don’t match the DNA of their ancestor’s? This is a very important, yet open ended arena. We must always think of what this could be used for. It could be a benefit, but then again maybe not. Only those that are in power will decide what the DNA would be used for. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that, DNA samples have been collected on American Indian remains for awhile now. Without the public even knowing it.
My way of thinking is simply that it doesn’t matter what tribe you are from, reservation, or not. An American Indian is an American Indian.
Sincerely,
CoheeLady
or Quehee
Cohee Lady,
I must say that my concerns or Our concerns about the DNA test is mutual! I’m thinking that whoever the DNA finding people are could be beyond devastating to our people. Could this be a DNA Genocide?
tasheaka
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Tasheaka,
If you go to the, “Share Genealogy Research” forum, you will find the Topic I posted regarding DNA studies. The topic is titled; “Molecular Genealogy Research”. I hope this information will be of some help.
I do agree that the DNA studies that are now being done, will in fact turn out to be a new form of genocide. To many these may be harsh words, but I agree with you. The past paper genocide & sterilizations that were done,still are fresh in our minds. We as citizens of this country must stand up & let our voices ring loud & clear. We will not tolerate another Eugenics Movement in America.
The BYU, the Mormon’s University along with The Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation are now going across the country getting DNA samples. This information from the DNA study will not be released to the public, not even to the people who give a DNA sample. So what’s the point? This study is of no value to anyone other than the Mormon Church, B.Y.U., & the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation. It is only to be used by the scientist’s, & will be stored for futher studies & research.
I will be attending a DNA collection in my area, but I will not be giving blood. I will be there with the news media beside me, to voice my opposition to this project.
Sincerely,
CoheeLady
Hello, I’d be very careful with this type ofof an agenda, exactly what are they looking foor, and who are they looking for. besides being riddled with suspicion what will the future outcome be, are they looking for a “spirit cave” descandant or what.
Iam glad that you will be making the opposition perhaps it may open some doors.
Tom
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