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Originally posted by lost
I got some help and this is what he sent me:
Hi Lost,
I decided to poke around the Sapponi forum because I’d run into a dead end with the Corn Family. I found a document that listed nearly every single early member of my line which was very intersting since it is at this point exactly all researched seem to get stuck.
“134
1810 Occaneechi- Saponi Heads of Families and others
Patrick County, Virginia – 1810 census
James Boiling
John A. Corn
Samuel Corn
John Corn Jr. (Mayo)
Elijah Collins
Marvel Boiling
Nancy Corn
Isham Craddock
James Craddock
George Corn
Thomas Craddock
Elisha Collins
John P. Corn
Wm. Collins
Daniel Collins
Jesse Corn
Ceaser Finley
Hezekiah Going
John Going Sr.
John Going Jr.
Stephen Going
Wrn. Going
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Every single corn listed up there is in my family tree! We just could not get beyond John Adam! I have an extensive genealogy on the Corn family, so please ask and I will do a search in my database for people. Our research ALWAYS comes to a screeching halt when it comes to John Adam Corn et al above.
Here is another Corn:
Beginning just prior to the Revolutionary War, and accelerating rapidly thereafter, individuals and bands of families began migrating from the acculturated settlement to Orange County, North Carolina. These migrants formed the community that was historically called “Little Texas” and that today calls itself the Occaneechi Band of the Saponi Nation. Some families also migrated from Virginia to South Carolina (Sumter County), and beginning in the 1820s, most of the families remaining in Virginia or nearby areas of North Carolina emigrated to Ohio and other Midwestern states. Some Indians also migrated from Little Texas to join relatives in Ohio.
While there appear to be few if any descendants today in either Brunswick or Greensville County, Virginia there is a small remnant community still in existence across the State line in Northampton County near the town of Gaston on the Roanoke River. Even this community, called the “Portuguese Settlement” throughout much of the 19th and 20th centuries, has largely dispersed. Up into the 1950’s, however, at least one of the community’s schools, called the “Portuguese” school, was still located in Greensville County.
The Revolutionary War was as key event among the Occaneechi community as it was in the rest of the colonies. Existing records count a sizeable number of men as having served in militia and Continental Line units during the War, service that took them much farther afield than any of the younger men had probably ever been. Pension records indicate that at least a few of them marched as far south as the Catawbas via the old trading routes that traversed Hillsboro and ran just to the south of Pleasant Grove, North Carolina; at least one (William Stewart) was a veteran of Valley Forge; and several served at Yorktown and other eastern Virginia areas.
Veterans of the War and their families were among the founders of Little Texas, including those of Charles Whitmore, John Jeffries, Jr., John Jeffries, Sr., Jacob Jeffries, Simon Jeffries, Holiday Heathcock, and others had moved their families to Little Texas by 1800. The community was also joined by the children of William Guy, a War veteran who was born in the Virginia community and who moved to North Carolina after the War.
Another important early family in Little Texas was that of Robert Brooks Corn, the son of Robert Corn, an Indian who was a veteran of both the French and Indian War and of the Revolutionary War. Robert Brooks Corn was married in 1795 in Greensville County to Jane Jeffries, moving about 1800 to Wake County, North Carolina with his father and their extended family. After his father’s death in 1816, Robert Brooks Corn moved his family to Little Texas, where three of his wife’s siblings, John, Drury and Littleton Jeffries, along with numerous cousins, were already established.
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If anyone has any ideas on how to research the familes already listed with the Sapponi I will need all the advice I can get!
I don’t think all the Corns were Indian, but I do think they intermarried a lot, and not just with Sapponi, also Cherokee.
I was doing some rearch about the Melungeons due to their proximity to my father’s family in TN and certain physical issues such as the hump back which plagued my grandfather and now my father. And I discovered that I have a rather large “melungian bump” which, until I compared it around, I never thought was all that huge…now I’m thinking ten gallon hat:D
I “look” white, but that didn’t fool my adopted grandfather Canadian Medicine Man Raymond “Pike” Armstrong of the M’Chigeen Band of the Ojibwa…. he took me under his wing right off and gave me my name in a beautiful ceremony (means Humingbird, the seeker). It will be so interesting to discover that I’m even more Native American than I thought I was.
Nanoskatches,
Welcome!:) This is very fascinating! I’m glad you’re here and eager to learn much more about you. I love your name, it’s beautiful.;) Love & Light, Lynella.
hey everyone how is everyone?I havent really had the chance to look up as much info as I would like to been kinda busy but to everyone who has given info and history to try to help I thank you very much every little bit helps right?I will still be dropping in every now and then I find this group very intresting 😎 well im short on time and have to go I gotta get some rest.bye
Lost,
Hey! It’s really good to hear from you. I hope all is well and your Holidays were wonderful. Looking foreward to hearing from you again soon.:) Lynella.
Just a note on the info posted above re: the Occaneechi, Little Texas, etc. It’s important to remember that this is not original source data, but a recent interpretation of historical data. There are plenty of people who would quibble with the statement that there are few Saponi descendants in Brunswick county. They are coming out of the woodwork constantly. Or, look at the Corn surname, found in Indiana and now Maryland. Our allegedly extinct ancestors were much more prolific than anyone would have imagined.
Nanoskatches, I want to welcome you to the board. Glad to see you found your way here. Please make yourself at home.
Could you do me a favor and cite the sources for the info you shared? I think the first bit concerning the 1810 census is from Richard Haithcock. I believe his interpretation is correct, but it’s important to differentiate that the designation of “Occaneechi-Saponi” heads of family is based on interpretation and not on literal historical documentation. I don’t believe any census has ever designated anyone to be Occaneechi. Richard’s data is still enormously valuable, it’s just important that we keep clear on what’s actually in the record, or we’ll be much too easily dismissed by doubters or claim jumpers.
The second quote I believe is from the Occaneechi Band of the Saponi website, I believe written by Forest Hazel.
HI Linda, thanks for your reply.
I drove out to a nearby library that had a copy of their book and actually went through the entire thing.
After looking at the depth of their research AND the familiar names in familiar areas I checked the census available to me at the library on Historical Quest? (not sure of exact name) and I pulled all the corns who were clearly labled FM, MM ect. There were only two families in all the states named Corn that were labled FB or MB so I ruled them out based on their first names since they were unique to that group.
Then I took note of the other names that were “married” into the family specifically in the areas of Saponi settlement. And compared those names to familes later labled FM or MM. What I found allowed me to create a theory of how this CORN family disseminated and for the most part, passed as white. (LOL or claimed they were Irish)
I think there were three or four original CORN settlers probably brothers Andrew, Thomas and Samuel. (possibly a george) They came to the colonies in the early 1600s. Conjecture further leads me to believe that one or more of them may have had prolonged contact with the Indians and one or more might have married an Indian wife.
At that time it was not so horrific a thing for a frontiers man to take an Indian wife. These men were quite prolific. Names that pop up right off as probably offspring are William, Samuel, John, Timothy and of course Andrew, Thomas, Edward, Matthew and George.
Several of the brothers named their sons the same thing.
The George that went to Mercer Co. KY I believe was a son of Edward son of one of the originals. He had almost 20 kids.
The George that went to OHIO was most likely the son of the SAMUEL. This george married twice and also had nearly 20 kids.
William of yogahanni CO PA had a son matthew also of same CO and its Possible that this is the matthew that is supposed to be father of John Peter, Jesse, Samuel and George. (but it’s hard to say without more research on this particular line. Many people want to discount the Matthew because they can’t find anything ON him but I did find a birth record in that county where there was also a William. Without a doubt this clan of Corns remained in the Indian territories and intermarried with them. Names like Jones, Capps, Bennett, Allen ect. show up a lot in our tree Mostly these are the maiden names of their wives. I don’t think EVERY male corn married an Indian woman, but Ithink the evidence it clear that quite a few of them did.
Elder Adam Corn son of John Peter took his sizeable clan into Missouri and Kansas. They went enmass.
Matthew Dewitt Corn son of Peter & mary Jones (son of John Peter) took his entire clan to Kentucky and he had close on to 15 kids as well (off the top of my head) (Jones is a core saponi name)
So the Corn dissemination was pretty broad. They are long lived and apparently pretty good at making babies.
As far as the origin of the CORN name in the male line of the Saponi I have not yet found a referance to that although I intent to not only write the authors but go up to another Library which has a different three volume work of theirs to see if they did get around to working out the origins of this CORN name (aside from calling it a “indian translation” ) as they did for many of the other core Saponi names.
I tend to think that at least in my Corn tree, the original male Corns were European (based on transport records, dates ect.) but that does not rule out the possibility of other scenarios.
I’ve read some time ago that some hypothosized that Corn was a shortened version of CORNSTALK, but I don’t put much creedance in that. Of course nearly all Americans would love to claim Indian ancestry…but the romance soon fades when they see their ancestors listed on the census and mullattos…..they either are ignorant of Indian history or simply caught up in the imagery without realizing the consequences.
I’ve found little support among the “clan” for my research because others may have more emotionally invested in finding a president or a king in their line than a disenfranchised group of people who faced serious racisim.
For instance in cross referancing you find a name that is not so common such as Minerva Corn dau of William and Mary Massie born after 1824 then we find her in the marriage records in a mostly saponi area where she remained. Her father and mother moved to Jackson Co. Ohio.
Granville Co. NC Marriages
Minerva (Minnie) Corn M. John Taburn 27 Dec 1645
Eliza Corn M. William Harris 19 Nov 1846
So it was my guess that Minnie married a Saponi or partly saponi Indian.
I do know that historically the Corns had good relationships with the Indian peoples. And of course looking at photos one often giggles at exactly how close:)
This is a very interesting line of study for me. I’ve always wondered how such a genetically sucessful clan could have missed the boat on general sucess meaning…golly wouldn’t at least ONE of them had made it big somehow…but factoring racial issues…
And the fact that the corn line that is mine moved WITH the Indians from the patrick co. VA area to the Hendersonvill NC area en mass.
Nanoskatches,
🙂 You’ve got some interesting stuff there, and great deductioning I might ad. Our People, unfortunately were doomed the day white folks strolled into the country. Therefor It was “all” odds against them, always. But, I believe, as long as we keep them alive in everything we do here and don’t lose sight of the main priority there hardships will have had purpose, because WE ARE STILL HERE, and we won’t be leaving even when You and I and God forbid, but stuff happens any or all of US are gone, WE WILL STILL BE HERE. 😎 Love and Light, Lynella.
🙂 Linda,:)
Hey! Thank you so much for reminding us how cruscially important documentation is in this process. Unfortunately we have the system and all of it’s red tape, which came into the country with those who’s BIG MISTAKES WE ARE LEARNING FROM, and that is why we need to check and recheck all documentaion. It’s not just about investigating and taking notes. IT’S ABOUT TRUTH and TREASURING WHO WE ARE BAD ENOUGH TO SEE TO IT THAT EVERYTHING IS GOOD.;) We wouldn’t want to be stepping into the wrong doors or stepping on toes or anything and if we want to be seen for WHO WE ARE, we MUST do it right. I wont forget that:) I know how important this is to you, I mean, I’m here with you now and I thank you for that. This is that important to me too. Even if I were to findout that my entire life was a lie, this would still be my driving force and priority. You’ve got me, I’m all yours!!!:p Wow! I hope I didn’t just give you nightmares or anything! Love & Light, Lynella.
😀 I also guess I should not discount the fact that from those first white settlers, the race has come a long way. I suppose that they’re just as bound by red tape as we are. I mean My dad’s folks were English so out of respect I have to say there are good and bad in all of us and I should not loose site of that either. So, don’t let it be said that I was not giving credit to some who desrve it. We do have a lot of heroes out here, thank god, of all colors and countries of origin. I won’t forget their goodness. It would not be fair.:) Lynella.
I like how you think:)
I’ve posted on the AI forum at GEN.com and shook my finger at the mean people over there who get all caught up in percentages of Indian and the very clear unkindness to those people of AI descent whose family didn’t sign up on the rolls and submit to relocation but instead chose assimilation. They are just downright cruel. I directed people to this board which is accepting and gentle and more in line with the old ways.
I’d like to share how I met Granfather Pike. I was on a long road trip (4,000 miles) to help me clear out old negative energy and find my balance. I was drawn to the Manitoulin Islands in Canada….almost as soon as I rolled onto that land I had a knowing…that there was someone for me there. I stopped at the trading post and asked for THE medicine man. There were a lot of course but I said I need THE medicine man.
They directed me to the old folks home run by the band (first nation, M’Chigeen, Ojibwa). I parked and walked in and wandered to the dining room….I asked for Raymond Armstrong and an elderly man looked up at me and said “what took you so long? I’ve been waiting.”
It was so amazing. We spent the week together. He told me that he’d never met a white medicine woman before and that I was pure like spring water. He gave me so many gifts, talked to me of the grandfathers, took me to the sacred places, dreamed my name and had a naming ceremony for me making me granddaughter. A spiritual union that I was at that time so hungry for. A reiki master for years, I worked on him, I spent time with the chief and his son…and oddly felt like somehow I’d met my family if not in fact then in spirit.
When I left the Islands I left grandfather behind, but I carry him in my heart and memory and in my name. Now I find that I am more connected to that ancestry than I’d thought. (previously I had only known for sure of one Cherokee grandmother…) Now I find a whole host of ancestors.
I think the most important thing for ALL of us to remember is that it’s NOT percentages of AI blood, or if our ancestors “sold out” or went to the reservation, the MOST important thing to remember that all of us were born of love (barring of course acts of violence) that our ancestors who intermarried were going against the tide, and it was because they loved each other.
AND the greatest of these is love…it’s time we remembered that and reminded those who want to fight…that LOVE brought AI and others together to bear children and LOVE should be the one thing most remembered.
I like that a lot. It is a very heart warming story.:) I feel like I kind of know ya’ a little now!
Like I’ve told my sons a thousand times, Do not ever think that I am truly mad at you for anything you could do or may do. Love is the only true human remnant that even in death still goes on for ever. I’ve told them, a lot recently, how important it is for us to always tell everyone we love just how much they mean to us and how much we love them, cause’ life is just too short sometimes and you never know till it happens. So the last time I saw my eldest son, I told him, you are my bright and shining star, the light that carries me through each and every day. And even when I’m dead and gone I want you to know so deeply that you still feel my love for you, because love never dies. It just goes out into the world and the universe and its always there when we need it.
Boy howdy, did I get mushy! What’s up with that?;) Love & Light, Always & forever, Lynella.
Nanoskatches,
Welcome!
Descending from Robert Allen of New Kent co Va through son Joseph b 4-11-1711.
Brother to Joseph Robert II had son William..son Charles Madison Allen married Mary Corn..Mary born about 1811, Father John A Corn married to Elizabeth Adams in Patrick co Va. John A son of Samuel born about 1755?
I only have some of the Allen clan. There are many of them.
Sue J
Originally posted by saj
Nanoskatches,
Welcome!
Descending from Robert Allen of New Kent co Va through son Joseph b 4-11-1711.
Brother to Joseph Robert II had son William..son Charles Madison Allen married Mary Corn..Mary born about 1811, Father John A Corn married to Elizabeth Adams in Patrick co Va. John A son of Samuel born about 1755?
I only have some of the Allen clan. There are many of them.
Sue J
HOW WONDERFUL to meet you! I was wondering what happened to C.M. Allen and Mary….they were both gone and the children living with their grandmother Elizabeth! I’m so pleased to have my deductions about who was the father of this J.A.Corn confirmed! I have this whole line mostly worked out on the Corns if you are interested! I did it by tracing census and will data.
Was Charles Madison Allen a Saponi? What about Mary Corn?
The reason I’m asking is the census lists the kids as white which would confirm my idea that many people simple passed or never bothered to discuss their heritage with the census taker:)
I would love to know if you know what happened to Charles and Mary….to leave all loose both mother and father must have been so sad for the kids!
Welcome to the Corn patch..cousin:)
Dear dear Nanoskatches,
I am so happy to hear your reply!!!
And I have no clue what happened to them…
I began searching, mainly my fathers line many years ago…probably about 20 years ago..have not even hardly touched my mom’s side of the family…
My father said there was native american and he looked it..
I am back to the Allens in Va to Henrico, Hanover, Lunenburg, new Kent co and from there onto many other places…Charles Madison Allen and Mary Corn are very recently new to me and I have no stories to tell…not yet.
I am happy for every connection and every cousin here!
I have names and dates of various people but so few stories about them…I wish more had been passed from generation to generation to me but I have a lack of family stories.
So very very glad if we can claim cousintry to each other!:) 🙂 🙂 sue J
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