- This topic has 6 voices and 38 replies.
-
Posts
-
I have read in two places now that Moses Ridley (Riddle) was listed as a Cherokee in the 1740’s on a VA tax record.
http://www.allourhistory.com/riddle/d1.html
Does anyone know where I can find tax records for VA in 1740? Would these be for each county or would it be for all of Virginia?
p.s. I should add, the person who posted the above information states that Moses Riddle was in fact a Choctaw…I emailed her to see what her source is and have yet to hear. I will post when I know more.
Not true.
‘William Ridle’ and ‘Moses Ridle, Indian’ are listed on the 1767 Tax List, Tithables of Pittsylvania Co., Va.
Use the ‘search’ button on this Forum and search on ‘moses ridle’.
‘Search on’ ‘moses riddle’ to bring up additional Land Entry Records.
Bill
How do you know he was born about 1740? Was his age mentioned in the 1767 Tithables or elsewhere?
To top it off, I have found a book published locally that says Moses’ father was a William as well. I spoke with the author and he can’t remember what the source was…frustrating!
Does anyone know where to find this supposed 1740 Tax Record for VA?
Rockhound,
Let’s start over.
The Riddle site has some interesting information on it but some very dubious, unsupported conclusions.
Their claim that Moses Riddle is found on a 1740s tax record bears considerable scrutiny when the specific tax record is never mentioned, just ‘kinda slide in there’.
For a Cherokee or Choctaw person to be living in Hanover Co., Va in the early to mid-1700s is very improbable when we look at the history of that area and its considerable distance from Cherokee and Choctaw lands and the unsupported assertion “In fact, he was Choctaw” (or something to that effect), raises more questions about how serious they are.
Bill
Bill,
Ok, now I understand.
I hate it when facts are stated with some reference to a source that has no footnote. I am VERY careful to save all of my sources and right them down (must be my “anal” engineering background 😀 ).
I see what you are saying about a Choctaw or Cherokee living in a certain county at a certain date that may not jive, but it isn’t entirely impossible either. If Moses was a mix of Scottish and Indian (say Cherokee), he could have been living as a white man (like he seemed to from what I have gathered, since he did own land and such) and may have lived in Hanover Co. regardless of his Indian heritage. Or it could all not be true at all. I don’t know until I see the source.
I just wanted to see if anyone here knows where I can find this 1740s tax record for VA. Assuming there is such a record…
Would this be a Hanover Co. record?
Or would this be a Virginia state record?
How were the taxes collected and recorded at that time? I assume it was more of a local thing and so the county would be the place to look. Now, does Hanover County still have the same boundaries as it did in 1740?
I also think this would be a county tax record and many records from this area did not survive the several wars and courthouse fires.
Hanover Co was created in 1721 from New Kent Co.
Louisa Co was created in 1742 from Hanover Co and the “Redbook of State, County and Town Sources” does not list any other county as having been formed from Hanover.
(Hanover would have been the ‘frontier’ in 1721 and anyone in the backcounty to the northwest, may have transacted business in Hanover and Henrico counties, and may even have considered themselves as living in those counties.)
From the 1704 Quit-Rent Rolls of Virginia:
*Thomas Riddle, King & Queen Co., 700 acres *
Garrett Ridley, Warwick Co., 300 acres.
Nathaniel Ridley, Isle of Wight, 200 acres.
Note:
*The York River forms part of the eastern border of Hanover Co and across the river is King William Co., formed in 1701/02, from King & Queen Co, just to the east of K. Wm. Co. *
Bill, thanks for the information. I will keep looking for this “suppposed” source.
I wonder if these are the “3 Riddle Brothers” I have heard about…
I’d love to find out who Moses’ father was…
Rockhound,
I have ancestors of alleged “Cherokee” Indian ancestry from Hanover county VA (I believe they were probably Powhatan), and in researching that I have gotten ahold of copies of Hanover county tax lists, wills, deeds, etc, going back to the 1700’s. I don’t recall seeing the Riddle name in the records, but I am going through these records again, and will keep an eye out for any Riddles if you would like.
Regarding Cherokees in early Virginia, I found this interesting post from the virginia First Peoples group, posted 10/7/05
“There are descendants of the Lower Cherokee towns in at least three Indian communities today. These particular Cherokee were children and some women brought from the Ashley River in South Carolina in the late 1600’s and early 1700’s. They can be found in the court order books of Lancaster County and Christ Church Parish of Middlesex County. Most but not all were brought as slaves, some as young as 1,2, and 3 years old.
The only surname which clearly survives is Pinn/Penn/Pin. There is more to the Pinn story, since a diligent search of Lancaster and Northumberland County reveals no evidence that any Pinn was ever a slave. There are records of apprenticeships, however.
It is likely that Lancaster, Northumberland, and Middlesex were not the only counties to import Cherokee children. In these counties they probably were brought by ship by Bay traders. These traders can be found in the Journals of the Indian Commission of South Carolina, along with overland traders from Virginia. There were probably captives brought overland to the Southside counties also, since the overland traders tended to be from the Southside counties.
My great grandmother supposedly had a “white” sister in Richmond who was actually enrolled in the late 1800’s or very early 1900’s.
James Nickens”
Since the early records of Hanover county are mostly lost, we may never know if any of these Cherokee were brought there or not. But it does raise the possiblity.
Shad
Thanks for the information.
If you happen to run across a Riddle, please let me know.
In reference to my original post, it angers me that people post “facts” about my ancestors on the internet without stating a source, and when emailed, won’t write me back. I guess it is possible that there email may have changed…:mad:
Originally posted by quest for facts
Greenwood on River Rd between New Orleans and Baton Rouge is still in our family as is Marlbourgh in New Hanover County Virginia. Evelynton and Greenwood are opened to the public but Marlbourgh is still private. They are all still working plantations. Linda
Are these Riddles at Marlborough? I looked up “New Hanover County” but only found Hanover County.
Bill,
I found this on a Hanover County website:
“Prior to English colonization what is today Hanover County was hunting ground for the Pamunkey and Chickahominy Indians. In the late 17th century it was settled by plantation owners and others involved in the tobacco related economy. At that time it was part of New Kent County. Hanover County was officially formed on November 26, 1720 from the area of New Kent County called St. Paul’s Parish. It was named for King George I of England, who was Elector of Hannover in Germany when he came to the throne. Two early port towns on the Pamunkey River were Hanovertown and Newcastle. Both were mercantile villages from which tobacco was shipped to England. Neither exists today.”
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
