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Tom:
Here it is:
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_______Before 1713, Virginia demanded and received two hostages from each tributary Indian village._ Governor Spotswood though that this was the best way to keep these Amerindians peaceful, while giving some of the most talented of their numbers an English style education._ As early as 1713 there were seventeen of these students being educated by the College of William and Mary._ Shortly thereafter, a special Indian school was erected at Christanna and some additional tributary Indians were brought from reservations to be educated there._ A mathematics professor, Hugh Jones, left a memoir of his experience with them._
The young Indians, procured from the tributary Indians . . .with much difficulty were formerly boarded and lodged in town, where the abundance of them used to die, either through sickness, change of provision, and way of life, . . . often for want of proper necessaries and due care of them._ Those of them that have escaped well, and have been taught to read and write, have, for the most part, returned to their home. . . . A few of them have lived as servants with the English. . . . But it is a pity more care is not taken of them after they are dismissed from school._ They have admirable capacities when their humors and tempers are perfectly understood.”
I went to the html site and searched for “William” until I found it.
Cindy
That’s an interesting thought, Cherokee being a corruption of Ocheneckee, particularly when you consider that a native pronunciation would be on the second syllable. This would tend to mean an initial syllable would be dropped.
Cindy —
Do you know what Indians lived in NE Ohio where your and Bess’s relations lived? Were they part of the Saponi/Tutero/Tutelo or maybe others who went to live with the 6 Nations?
I wish I had more about Takatoka, but I know very little about him. He was a war chief and was at war with the Osage a lot. He was a friend of Tahchee who was Sequoyah’s half-brother. But I know nothing about his trip to the North to obtain allies amongst the other tribes in 1827. I’d like to learn more about that, though.
Vance
Vance,
The Shawnee, Wyandot, Delaware, Mingo, Seneca were some of those tribes, although the Tutelo were there too. Logstown in SW PA was a mixed town with documented Tutelo. It is not clear to me if my Brown/Rhoads were even Indian, to be honest. I only suspect it. However, my ggggrandmother was from near Logstown, PA, and she was Blackfoot. The story in my family is that they were Cherokee with Nancy McLain being Blackfoot. Deb was told that they were Cherokee Blackfoot too. Both of our families (who split but not really, as they lived and died as neighbors) three generations ago were brother and sister, likely white brothers who married native women who we believe to have been related, and then moved out to Iowa to join natives, also believed to be related, who had already moved to Iowa. They were joined at some point by some Rhodes who I believe to be related to the whole bunch, as my ggrandmother came to Iowa from Illinois as a single woman to teach school right before the Depression. I believe that she joined Rhodes relatives already here. There are Rhodes buried in the same cemetery as the McLain bunch.
One cousin who writes books on hidden native American ancestry believes them to have been Shawnee. I no longer believe this or at least believe that they were mixed tribes. I have suspected some involvement in the Moravian faith also. In any case, the family story is that they were Cherokee.
Cindy
Under “transcriptions” at the above link it says —
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2. Folder 3 – 6 out of Box 135:
Marx, Tilde:”Diaries of the Moravian Missions in Western Pennsylvania 1769 -1772″ , Typescript as part of Merle Deardorff Papers, Warren Historical Society, Warren, Pa. (Part 2, B I – IV).
Remarks:
A Munsee settlement, but neigbors were Mahican, Chippewa, Shawnee and Cherokee.
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I am not gonna get my hopes up any more (been there) that this means Cherokee might have remainded up there — they were known to be in Ohio, Scioto River region in the 1790s and probably 1780s — This document appears to place Cherokee in/near Warren Pa earlier, in 1769-1772.
Dr Allen (Cherokee Nation historian) says Cherokee left the Ohio region for the last time in 1794/5 after the Greenville Treaty. He says there were about 70 Cherokee in an Ohio settlement. I don’t know if he meant 70 warriors or 70 people in all. Seventy warriors might mean 200 or 300 people in all, but 70 people might mean 20 or 30 warriors.
I’d love to get a look at that Moravian record, tho. The longer the time frame for Cherokee being placed in this region the higher the probability there might have been some intermarriage with the local tribes, or whites.
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Maybe e-mailing the webmaster of this website will reveal how to get ahold of Moravian records.
vance
Hey All well it looks asthough the educated Virginia students were also heading north either to be educated and living there or to be working as servants, possibly with the Morovians.
This northward movement was very well documented with the Cherokee students of the early 1800’s, sounds like they particpated in an old “tradition” of education, much like what is happening these days with other populations.
Perhaps there is some old documents in old schools educating Yesah children!
Oh Cindy thank you for the reference.
Hey Vance there’s a Morovain archives in North Carolina, Iam not sure where but ask the CHIEF organization they can tell you. Prentice was the man that first told me about the archives.
From what I know there is a huge collection of documents there.
Thanks Tom, what do you mean by “Chief” organization? Who is Prentice?
I was told at Oklahoma’s rootsweb Cherokee website by Jerri Chasteen that Doublehead was killed in 1807 in the home of a Mr Black, and was told to look up Springplace Mission. Mr Black was a school teacher at a Presbytyrian Mission (1804-1814). Ms. Chasteen said the “Moravian Diaries” that is the source of this information. I’d like to find out more about any Moravian activity amongst the Cherokee, as many Cherokee who were Brown’s were known to have converted to Presbytyrian Christianity, and I have an ancestor John Brown who married Polly Black in 1820. I have wondered if Polly might be the daughter of this teacher . . . I haven’t found out very much about this man, tho.
The Moravians or Presbytyrians (or possibly any Christian denomination) might be a connection between any Cherokees in Tn/Ga/Al with the Indian peoples of Ohio — but this is probably a long shot . . .
Vance
Vance:
Deb gave me a book written by the step-grandson of my Blackfoot ggggrandmother. Her stepchildren returned to SW PA from Iowa, leaving the rest of the family. (I think that they were children of a white first wife.) He speaks of his Quaker grandmother who came to western PA to teach the Indians. He also speaks of the Indians around his SW PA home as being mostly Cornplanter Seneca.
However, a native American genealogist told me last year that my names were Cherokee. This may have been based on the name Potter in my family, though.
Cindy
Hey Vance the CHIEF is the “Cherokee Indian Education Foundation” , or something like that, Prentice is the fellow that started it.
I may still have some tapes of the Morovian missions, it is a book that was read to tape, if it’s complete I’ll let you know. They in the book mention the Spring Place Mission.
The Vann family was there, I think the Browns and vann’s wives names were Crutchfield, what interested me was the mention of the Carey people being guides for the Missionaries into that area.
Yes! James Vann if I am not mistaken invited the Moravians into the Cheroke Nation from Wilkes County, NC, about 1801. He was integral in the plot that got Doublehead killed — he and a Saunders and a Ridge all conspired together. This resulted in the abolition ofthe blood law in the Cherokee Nation as the Cherokee Nation decided relatives of Doublehead didn’t have to kill these men. In 1809 Jamed Vann was mysteriously murdered making some think Doublehead’s relatives might have killed him anyhow. A grandson of Doublehead killed Ridge later anyhow, after the Trail of Tears in 1839, for his part in signing the 1835 Treaty.
The Moravians first went to Wilkes County, NC about 1752 and I believe for a while lived near the Catawba or Tuscarora or other isolated groups of Indians. I’d like to know more about what these Moravians did in NC. It was said Christopher Gist was the first White man to live in what became Wilkes County in 1750, so he probably knew the Moravians who arrived there 2 years later very well. Since Doublehead was Sequoyah’s Uncle, and Christopher Gist was Sequoyah’s White Grandpa, all these names and surnames seem to migrate together.
I have read that the Cherokee Brown’s were named after a patron who helped the mission get started. My Brown that married a Black was in 1820, and the teacher named Black at Spring Place was there from about 1804 to about 1814 at the most. I was thinking if I knew more about Jonathan Black’s family, who his wife and kids were, well maybe he had a daughter Polly . . . Polly Black married my John Brown in 1820 in Lawrence County, Alabama. Probably a long shot . . .
Thank you. 🙂
Vance
Originally posted by vance hawkins
One link you provided (above in this thread) I intend to copy and paste and ponder. It said Virginia tribes were so descimated that they all lived together and individual tribal groups were melded together and forgotten, I think by about 1750. It also said Virginia Indian people were used in militias against Indian’s further west, which matches the comment that the Melungeon’s were the “friendly Indians” who helped build Fort Blackmore….
But more about the Blackfoot/Cherokee traditions. I think these are definitely 2 separate groups and the 2 did intermarry, but it was not as many people think….
I have always known some of my ancestors were Indian and somer were Indian fighters, and have always admitted that here at Saponitown forum website. But the more I read the more I belive those “Indian fighters” were also mixed-blood Indian….
vance
Vance, which was the link you mention?
This general description matches what I seem to be finding independently about my family. My most prominent and direct lines/surnames match those of Indian Traders — Hughes, Moore, Jackson and others. A couple have been mentioned as, some sort of Indian fighter — for instance, a Texas Ranger. It would make sense to me that if they belonged to a tribe that had been enemies with a tribe that anglos were also having trouble with, they’d be willing and even eager to join the fight against an enemy, while gaining creds. Certainly there were tribes on both sides of the Revolutionary War, both with the British and with the settler, depending on how they’d been dealt with, previous alliances and such. My impression is that many of the Woodland tribes dealt with Traders, that Traders tended to marry into tribes. Things were certainly a lot more complicated, as were alliances, than I’d realized when first researching. And I think I belong to a long family history of ‘passers’ and ‘hiders.’ Hiding in plain sight.
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Funny thing — my Grandpa said Blackfoot. His lines come from definitely SC, NC and probably VA. So we match the Saponi description, right?
A couple of others on related family lines heard stories Native-americans, but they were a little vague as to tribe, saying possibly Cherokee. (Which seems to be the story you keep hearing some variation of on this site? Is that right?)
My cousins mom isn’t well and can’t quite remember what tribe the Indian families she stayed with in Texas and Nevada and Washington were. This would have been in the 1920’s and possibly 1930s. By then, I suppose tribes had moved around so could it have been almost any tribe? I keep trying to figure who could have traveled so far, or spoken the same language, for an Eastern Blackfoot to have family ties in that wide-range of places. Anyone have any ideas from this? Does it make any sense to anyone?
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Does anyone have tribes for Wake Co. NC ~ 1790? And Cross Keys, SC around that same time?
I keep reading conflicting stories about which tribes were in which locations at which time. Some Hugheses were probably in the mixed-blood no-man’s land between Cherokee and Shawnee in SC, but that we were on the Cherokee side. That the earlier tribes in that area were either Catawba or joined them, so we may have been one of those early tribes.
That the Meherrin were probably the ones around Apex/Raleigh area of NC. Does anyone know if this is right? With all the moving around I’m confused.
Especially because those areas may just be the first places we started ‘passing’ and we may have moved from elsewhere.
(Henry Co. is one possibilty I’ve heard mentioned. My gg-grandpa may have actually hauled stone all the way from there, if the stories are true.)
I’ve looked back through old posts but am still confused. Also, my direct lines seem to have different names than those which show up hear the most. Yet, we had some of the same stories, and I’m finding more and more corroboration that they are true. Hmm, are we from different tribes? Dunno what to think.
Any comments appreciated.:)
Hana,
I don’t know if it would be the same for you, but my names are not the same as others on this forum either. However, they follow similar migrations for the northern groups and as I expand the genealogy beyond those who are direct ancestors, I find names that are found on here: Collins, Harris, Payne. The Blackfoot story is in my family also.
Techteach
I found this in a google search. Thread is no longer around so I can’t ask where they got their info.
“2. “Re: Emery-Marcum-Vaughn-Cronin-Crain-Howerton-etc.”
In response to message #1
All the above surnames were of Cherokee descent that stayed behind in the removal and assumed “white” as they were all mixed between Cherokee and English ndn traders of the SC/NC/GA/TN area._ They settled around Henry Co (Paris TN) where the KY Lakes are now. By the civil war times they sold out and moved to Johnson Co. Most stayed out of the war so don’t know it the politics had anything to do with the move to IL or not. Several moved to MO so maybe So. IL was a good half way point. Many of these are buried at New Salem Missionary Church Cem. just south of Creal Springs and n. of Tunnel Hill. Much Cherokee history on them and most descendants heard it passed down but it was kept hushed in early 1900’s for fear of KKK in the area.”
As I’ve got Emerys and Vaughans, and a later post mentioned some Cherokee who went to Texas, about the time my folks arrived… and they seem to be somehow vaguely attached to Sam Houston…. Yes, I’m leaping again — that they were white-appearing Eastern Cherokee who were invite down to Texas to back Sam Houston. We’ll see…. (one family members claim to fame was repairing Sam Houston’s wagon wheel, and another Hughes is famous as a follower of Houston, who shocked the legislation by being the first (of only 7, eventually) Texas legislators to say ‘no’ to seceding from the Union.
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