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I haven’t gotten around to posting any guidelines for this forum, so I suppose I should.
This place is intended to be a place where people with Native ancestry tracing back to the Piedmont of NC/VA can come and help each other figure out what that means. We’re here to remember and honor our Ancestors, and enjoy each other’s company. Period.
There’s tons of places all over the internet where you can go if you’re looking for a good brawl. Don’t bother looking here, ’cause it just ain’t gonna happen.
I know for a fact that any rude, crude, insulting posts are just going to mysteriously vanish from this forum. I can’t say for sure what happens to them. I know my NDN ancestors have definitely shown themselves to be some very mischievous and adept internet gremlins, so maybe it’ll be them zapping the rude, crudities into cyberspace. Who knows?
By the same token, if you see a rude, crude post sitting here, don’t even bother responding to it, ’cause next thing you know, it will have vanished, and you’ll look like you’re arguing with a fence post.
I hope I’ve made all this clear.
Linda,
What does NDN mean?
I can’t connect the dots. “Native American Ancestor” would be NAA. “Native American Relative” would be NAR. “Native American Indian” would be NAI. Help.
What does NDN mean?
What are those terms, acronyms and onomatopoeias? Something like that. NDN means Indian. Get it? en dee en. N-D-N. It’s not an acronym. It’s an onomatopoeia.
Gee, I just wonder how many other people are out there, still trying to figure out what begins with N D N, but won’t admit it.
Hahaha. Must be everybody’s making foul posts that are disappearing! Come on people, clean it up.
Welcome, Grey Wolf, how’s things in your neck of the woods, my friend?
[This message has been edited by Linda (edited 10-29-2001).]
Ahhh, so NDN is a trope. What a clever girl you are Linda. I should have picked up on the onomatopoeia having once studied onomatopoeias, as well as all the other tropes and schemes.
You may be wondering why I didn’t post a reply until now. That’s because I didn’t see it until yesterday, when Greywolf posted. (I usually just look at the dates to see if there are any new posts. And I missed your reply since it was late on the same day as my original question.)
Well, I sure wish others would start posting again. SAPOPNITOWN.COM is one of my favorite sites. I check it every day to see if there’s anything new. C’mon people! Let’s post!!
Linda, here’s an example of my favorite trope. Can you name it? …. “NDN controlled land is not as extensive now as it was before 1492.”
Here’s another trope. …. “Opechancanough conspired openly when he launched his war against the English in 1622.”
Huh? I must be having a stupid day. I never heard the word trope before. It means the same thing as onomatopeia? Geez, what do we need another little word for when we’ve got that big unspellable monster of a word to use? Actually, onomatopeia is not a bad word, it sounds like an Indian word, vowels on top of vowals and half a yard long. Good to practice with in preparation for studying Tutelo.
Okay, okay, I’ll stop in here and say something everyday, even if it’s a stupid day and I have nothing worthwhile to say. Do the lightbulbs not work for you Roy? I know they don’t work for me, but I thought that’s just because I have cookies for both of the forums I’m running on this server.
Thanks for liking our site. Makes me happy.
Hi Linda,
Hehehe. Big sunspellable monster words 🙂 You’re right though about a lot of Indian words being a string of sing-song vowels that go on forever. My favorite is wicococomico.
Anyway, tropes are the class of “figures of speech” which contain onomatopeias,… as well as oxymorons (my second example), litotes (better known as understatement – my first example), irony, puns, similes, metaphors, etc.
Hey, how are you learning Tutelo? Languages on tape? College course? I’d be very interested in learning Tutelo too.
I’ve been scrambling for a way to study it, but nothing much has materialized. There’s a thread on the Haliwa Saponi site about some people trying to do a class, and there’s a link to a Tutelo dictionary written by a linguistics candidate. I bought it and have tried reading it, but you can’t read it, or at least I can’t read it without a dictionary in hand. Even understanding the linguistic terminology perfectly still doesn’t mean you’re speaking the language.
The Occaneechi-Saponi site has some pages on the language, and some vocabulary with .wav files. I haven’t checked in awhile, they add more to it periodically.
I found a nite site teaching Dakota language, which I think is the nearest living language to Tutelo. http://www.alliance2k.org/daklang/dakota9463.htm
I’ve thought maybe it would work to study Dakota first to get a feel for the pronunciations and structure. I’d like to be teaching my kids while they’re still under 12, since it’s so much easier for them, but I haven’t gotten far.
If you want to see a site that is what I WISH we had for Tutelo look at this. http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/egads/mingo/
They’re great people on that site, (a lot of our Saponi people ended up with the WV Mingoes). We need a hungry linguistics student to do with Tutelo what Jordan Lachler did with Mingo. He was sending out “Daily Mingo” lessons that were very well done. The problem I think for them is that there aren’t enough WV people studying it who can get together in real life. The students who were working at it last year were literally from all over the world. There’s a guy in Poland who knows a lot of Appalachian Iroquois. Somebody needs to get after the AIWVA or whatever they’re called and get them to take advantage of this gift.
Should I put up another topic for the language? That might be fun. I could get my dictionary out and try to say something and see if anybody can figure it out.
The new dictionary is available from UMI Dissertation Services, 1-800-521-0600. Their website is at http://www.bellhowell.infolearning.com It’s called “A Grammar and Dictionary of Tutelo” by Giulia R. M. Oliverio. They had trouble finding it when I called, but I persisted, so you may have to be a little pushy to get them to look hard.
There’s also a link on the main page of this site to the Canadiana pdf files of Horatio Hale’s Dictionary.
I think we’re going to practicing some Tutelo songs and dances at the Living Village Saturday. It would be great if you could come.
Since I’m not sure whether my roots are Sapony, or Tuscarora, or both, I thought I’d add to Linda’s Sapony/Tutelo language links by adding a link to the Tuscarora language. http://www.tuscaroraschool.org/tuscaror.htm
Now of course, Sapony/Tutelo is Siouian. Whereas Tuscarora is Iroquoian.
Thanks for the link. A couple of years ago I was looking around for a Tuscarora language link. I’m glad something’s up, and somebody’s told me about it.
Some of the clues I’ve come up with for my family could be Tuscarora, too. I think in that blackout period, where everybody hits a brick wall, everybody got thrown in together and it’s impossible to know where one group ends and the other picks up. All the more reason all these groups should be getting along, but then, families squabble all the time. What else is new?
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