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I’ve been hearing from a gentleman with some very interesting family connections he’s trying to track down. I’ve got the picture of his grandmother on the first page of my “Other Blackfoot” article, and this weekend he wrote me with some interesting news. His girlfriend, who’s a Seneca, noticed that a number of the names I’ve listed there, Harris, Williams, Scott, Jones, Buck, are found among the Seneca, and that there are those who, though registered as Seneca, know they have Saponi descent.
I find this very fascinating, since we know some Saponi were adopted after 1723, but there were so many people taken captive during the years of warfare between the Saponi and the Seneca. There had to be plenty of Saponi captives already there when the tribal group was adopted in. It was kind of like “we might as well go on up there, most everybody’s there already.’
It’s an interesting irony about traditional Indain warfare. A protracted feud meant that your “enemy” was slowly transforming into your “cousin.”
Linda;
While “fishing” around I found a list of different nations and tribes for 1778. Contained in that list are 30 SAPOONE living on the north branch of the Susquehanna River. Their neighbors are Delawares and Munsays, “30 Sapoones at Diahago and other villages, up the north branch of the Susquehanna.
To get to this list; 1.) Go to the Glenn A. Black Laboratory of Archaeology. 2.) Punch on the Laboratory box. 3.) Punch on publications. 4.) Punch on continuously updated list and access to the Miami archives. 5.) Punch on General Bound Collections- 1778. 6.) punch on (2nd. down) List of different nations and tribes of indians- 1778, pp. 454-455.
And “Whew” you are there.
I couldn’t get the regular address to come up but you might try, it’s http://www.gbh.indiana.edu/archives/miamis21/m78_2a.html
A great map of the Susquehanna is at http://www.srbc.net/gis/view.asp?img=image/140b.jpg
Dan.
1778 is late! Were you able to figure out where Diahago village was?
Maybe the link will work now.
http://www.gbl.indiana.edu/archives/miamis21/M78_2a.html
Linda;
Go to the link http://www.rootsweb.com/~pabradfo/outline/athenout.htm and you will find Diahago, also known as Tioga, and now known as Athens Pa. was some kind of resort area for the Six Nations of the Iriquois. The first white settler arrived there in 1778. It was at the junction of the Chemung and east branch of the Susquehanna Rivers forming what was called the “North Branch.”
The Munseys are a branch of the Delaware tribe known as “The Wolves.”
Dan.
Folks,
I have been trying to verify the best documented clue I have to my NA bloodline. It lies in my SPENCER line. As I told Crystal the other day here are the facts I have:
1) Military pension application (James Spencer testified he was INDIAN under oath) Why would he lie about this??
2) A connection to my Wm TAYLOR line that places them in NJ
(north of Greenbrier where James finally settled, not south)
3) Application witnessed by Washington Spencer ,my gr gr grandfather. ( verifies correct James Spencer)
4) Family oral history says James father was an Onieda chief, named Thomas, from upper state NY ; descended from the line of Gerald Spencer (NE branch of Spencers; Blacksmith is profession handed down through family; Spencers outdoors men and great hunters til this day.
While surfing I found this:
Born: c.1749 at Onoquaga
Died: August 6, 1777 at Oriskany
Thomas Spencer was an Oneida, the son of an Oneida woman and the Presbyterian missionary Rev. Elihu Spencer, who supported the Patriots against the King and the Loyalists. He was a runner carrying messages to various Indian towns, a spy or scout monitoring British movements and the size of their forces, and also a blacksmith who might have made hardware for Fort Stanwix.
He was born about 1749 at Onoquaga, a Tuscarora-Oneida-Mohawk settlement on the Susquehanna River near the Pennsylvania border (near present day Windsor, NY). He learned to speak and write English, probably from the missionary Rev. Hawley, from his father, or perhaps from Good Peter, the Oneida who carried on the work begun by these missionaries after they left.
Thomas Spencer lived as an adult in Cherry Valley. Only a few incidents in his life have been recorded.
In the spring and early summer of 1768 Sir William Johnson selected Thomas Spencer to serve as one of the runners to carry the wampum belts and call together the Chiefs of the Iroquois and other eastern Indian nations to a Congress at Fort Stanwix to discuss the sale of lands and the extablishment of a boundary line between Indian lands and white settlement. The Crown intended that no white man would settle west of the line to be established as the Fort Stanwix Treaty line. After traveling many miles to the north and south, Thomas Spencer arrived at Fort Stanwix on October 17, 1768, just as the Congress was getting started. He was paid 79 pounds, 12 shillings for 199 days’ service for “collecting and bringing down several Nations.”
Superintendent of Indian Affairs Guy Johnson recorded Thomas Spencer’s remarks at a meeting held in May of 1775 after the news of the battle of Concord had reached the Mohawk Valley. The meeting had been called to express Loyalist oposition to the measures taken by the newly formed Continental Congress. About 50 Oneida men, women, and children came with Thomas Spencer who was called “The Cherry Valley Orator.” Spencer eloquently addressed the meeting, however, to defend the actions taken by Congress.
In 1776 Thomas Spencer was sent to Canada with four other Oneidas to bring back news of British invasion plans and the strength of any forces involved. “Spencer…the American Indian spy…apparently maintained a chain of counter-espionage north and west from the Mohawk among his fellow Oneidas.” (Swiggett, p.75) A letter was written a 6am on Spetember 4, 1776, to Col. Elias Dayton, then commandant of Fort Schuyler, as the rebuilt Fort Stanwix was then called.
News from Onondaga informs that there is 700 Indians and Whites at Swagatche that will be at Oswego this day and that there is partys out for destroying the Inhabitants along the River and they desire them to be on their guards, they are to come first to Stony Arabia and go down and there is particular Parties designed for to take Major Fundy and Col. Herkimer, the Indians here desire that word may be sent with all speed down to the places exposed. The number unknown -they make fine road when they pass in the woods… I am guarded by my neighbors at present, though I expect I shall not be able to stay here long on account of private villains in the neighboring town, though I shall be advised by the Indians who have under-taken to protect me.
Your H’ble Servant,
THOMAS SPENCER
N. B. The party designed for Oswego are commanded by Walter Butler. I am at a loss whether they are yet arrived at Oswego or not -Great number will soon arrive. 700 at Oswego. (Swiggert, pp. 75-76 quoting an origninal letter in the Congressional Library)
Perhaps as payment for blacksmithing or intelligence gathering, the Commandant Dayton game this order on February 7, 1777: The commissary at your post to deliver one ration and one half provisions to Mr. Spencer at Oneida and when his wife arrive there you will order three rations per day to be delivered to him.
Thomas Spencer was with Herkimer on the march to relieve the siege of Fort Stanwix and was one of those who fell in the ambush at Oriskany. He was last seen alive in hand to hand combat with Willliam of Canajoharie (Indian son of William Johnson) whom legend incorrectly has said Spencer killed (Graymont, pp. 76, 190).
EDIT: Further reading today makes it clear that Thomas did NOT die at Oriskany as he was alive and in service of the patroits after the 1777 date EDIT
It all makes perfect since . Elihu Spencer had two families….one white and one Indian. Elihu was the Gr-Gr-Gr- grandson of Gerald Spencer.
Now…..The Susquehanna River with the Onoquaga, a Tuscarora-Oneida-Mohawk all living along it must have made for a crowded community. What makes it more interesting is the Timeframe.
I f anybody knowes how I can make contact with anybody who would have access to the early rolls for the Onieda people I would sure appreciate any help.
BTW Thanks Dan for the link provided above. What a wonderful site.
Brenda Collins Dillon
Dear Brenda,
The Spencers are also part of my family, however they are cousins. My great- great grandmother’s brother Issac Richard Garrett married Belle (Bettie) Spencer. They married in 1877. Mrs. B. Garrett is listed on her marriage license as being Belle Spencer. However on the Register of Marriages of Albermarle county, she is listed as Betty Spencer. Her husband was Issac Richard Garrett. The Register of Marriages is dated 1877. There marriage license states that they are both white. The Marriage Register states that Belle aka Bettie wasn’t white. She is listed in the 1870 & 1880 census as white. This information comes from documentation provided by my mother. Belle aka Bettie’s parents are Robert Spencer & Pamerlia, they are form Albermarle County, Virginia.
Sincerely,
CoheeLady
My Woods ancestors were in Albermarle County, Virginia. I think my Dickson ancestors were in Va & I know my Richey’s were, but I don’t know whic county.
But rather that goin’ Northm they went to Holston River, Tn. SO I am guessin’ and thinkin’ that maybe we have been separated from yall probably since that time, mid/late 18th century.
This is quite a thing to discover, and to consider as maybe when our ancestors parted ways for the last time, only to rediscover 225 or 250 years later.
You know there is a federally recognized Seneca-Cayuga Tribe here in Oklahoma, in the NE of the state, so a few Iriquois seem to have made the journey, probably through Indiana, Mo, on to Ok.
vance
I found this in my research for more information on Elihu Spencer the father of Onieda Indian , Thomas Spencer.
Rev. Elihu Spencer (1721-1784)
He was born at East Haddam, Connecticut, February 12, 1721; commenced a
course of literary study with a view to the gospel ministry, in March, 1740,
and graduated at Yale College in September, 1746. After his graduation, on
the recommendation of such men as David Brainerd
and Jonathan Edwards
, he undertook a mission among the Indians of the Six Nations, and with a special view to this mission, studied the language of
the Indian tribes, and was ordained to the work of the ministry by an
ordaining council in Boston, September, 1748. The leadings of Providence,
however, appear to have been such as prevented his accomplishing what he and
his friends had anticipated in this department of evangelical labor.
Mr. Spencer was installed pastor of the Presbyterian Church, Elizabethtown,
New Jersey, February 7th, 1750, in which relation he continued about six
years. In 1752, he wsa elected one of teh corporate guardians of the College
of New Jersey
, then temporarily placed at Newark, and held this office as long as he lived. In 1756 he became pastor of the Church at
Jamaica, Long Island under the care of the Presbytery of Suffolk
, where he remained, acceptably and usefully, two years or more, when, although the congregation gave a reluctant consent to his
leaving them, he accepted an appointment of Governor DeLancy of New York, to
the chaplaincy of the New York troops, then about to march and take their
place in the French War, still raging. When his services as chaplain were
closed, he labored several years in the contiguous congregations of
Shrewsbury, Middletown Point, Shark River and Amboy, New Jersey. In the year
1764, the Synod of New York and Philadelphia, having reason to believe that
a number of their congregations in the Southern parts of our country, and
especially in North Carolina, were in an unformed and irregular state, sent
Mr. Spencer and Rev. Alexander McWhorter
, of Newark, New Jersey, to inform, counsel and guide them aright, and prepare them for a
more orderly and edifying organization. This arduous service they rendered
with much skill and efficiency.
Subsequently Mr. Spencer was pastor of the congregation of St. George’s in
Delaware for five years, greatly to the acceptance and benefit of the
congregation. In October, 1769, he became pastor of the Church in Trenton,
New Jersey, and continued so until his death, greatly popular, useful and
beloved. In 1775, at the request of the Provincial Congress of that colony,
he again visited North Carolina, accompanied by Dr. McWhorter, and their
service to the cause of independence was very valuable in the influence they
exerted upon several important settlements in that region which were in
favor of the British Government.
Dr. Spencer’s tomb stands in the cemetery connected with the church in
Trenton, and bears the following inscription:–
“Beneath this stone lies the body of the Rev. Elihu Spencer, D.D.,
pastor of the Presbyterian Church of Trenton, and one of the Trustees of the
College of New Jersey, who departed this life on the 27th of December, 1784,
in the sixty-fourth year of his age. Possessed of fine genius, of great
vivacity, of eminent, active piety, his merits as a minister and a man stand
above the reach of flattery. Having long edified the Church by his talents
and example, and finished his course with joy, he fell asleep, full of faith
and waiting for the hope of all saints.”
NOTE: Crystal he was in Newark, New Jersey . This is where he must have connected with the TAYLOR line as Daniel was born there in 1748. Daniel’s father was William Taylor and mother Senor….supposely NA.
And then if you read further down you find Elihu Spencer was even in North Carolina. I can’t get over how much territory these people traveled. Here it is 2003 and I can’t get out of Massachusetts. :confused:
Vance,
My great-grandmother’s sister, Mary Pearl Turner married Jerry Wood. Mary is from Nelson County, Va., I don’t know where Jerry was from. The Wood/ Woods family seem to be one in the same family. As soon as I find out more info. on the Woods, I will let you know. Take care.
Sincerely,
CoheeLady
I don’t know if anybody in Saponitown, apart from the late Brenda Collins Dillon (message 8 above, e.g.), has any interest in the early Presbyterian missionary to the Indians (including some of ours who had moved north), David Brainerd. Anyway, I just happened to see his 1744 ordination sermon on eBay. Date of this printing is 1765, nearly 20 years after his death. There is an appendix with a little info on his Indian work. Seller’s reserve is $99, so it won’t be cheap, and mostly it’s for a pretty specialized sort of collector. But I just mention it. The eBay item number is 190158963114.
Well, that’s most interesting, Pappy. I googled Brainerd. He is New Light. I have followed this movement in the Presbyterian Church, because there was a Rev. Sankey and his father-in-law, Thomson, who were leaders of the Old Light. I have looked and looked to see if they were connected to my Sinkey/Sankeys and cannot determine if they were.
I think I will follow the auction for the heck of it. Edwards, who he associated with, is one of my surnames.
Techteach
Linda;3590 wrote: I’ve been hearing from a gentleman with some very interesting family connections he’s trying to track down. I’ve got the picture of his grandmother on the first page of my “Other Blackfoot” article, and this weekend he wrote me with some interesting news. His girlfriend, who’s a Seneca, noticed that a number of the names I’ve listed there, Harris, Williams, Scott, Jones, Buck, are found among the Seneca, and that there are those who, though registered as Seneca, know they have Saponi descent.
I find this very fascinating, since we know some Saponi were adopted after 1723, but there were so many people taken captive during the years of warfare between the Saponi and the Seneca. There had to be plenty of Saponi captives already there when the tribal group was adopted in. It was kind of like “we might as well go on up there, most everybody’s there already.’
It’s an interesting irony about traditional Indain warfare. A protracted feud meant that your “enemy” was slowly transforming into your “cousin.”
I also find this fascinating. Of the four grandparent lines to my mother, three link heavily with others here on SaponiTown. The fourth line is a question mark, but has multiple generations living in the frontier/’Indian Country’, and taking the first name Seneca. Buck and Jones are lines they marry into.
It seems others have looked for the same links in the tribal villages of 1700s PA.
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