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PappyDick,
There is an Aguilla Snelling on the Granville co 1771 petition to not tax wives of free persons of color.
Sue J
I’m going to attempt to post a photo of Jonathan Hulan (1797-1887) and his wife Eliza Trexler (1809-1902). They are my grgrgrandparents, mentioned in post #9, above. They were married 27 Dec. 1827 in Rowan Co. NC. In the 1850 census, Davidson Co. TN, the name is spelled Huling and they are called “M” (mulatto). Since then the name has been spelled Hulan, and their descendants have been considered “W.”
My great-uncle Charlie told me in about 1957 that Eliza was “Black Dutch.” But she was born in PA, and I believe he was confused as to which grandparent that story applied to. Jonathan’s ancestry was from Saponi settled areas of NC, though he was born in VA.
In the interest of linking things, for people who use the Search function and happen to find themselves here, I want to paste in a comment by Vance Hawkins from another thread: Saponitown Forum > Share History Research
The Moravians in North Carolina
He is quoting from the diary of Spangenberg (who was looking for a large site on which to establish his Moravian colony):
“One man in Edenton suggested the Tuscarora land, which lies about 35 miles from Edenton, and introduced me to the Interpreter, Mr. Whitemeal. I took his suggestion into consideration, notwithstanding the Act of Assembly of which I send you a copy.
The land lies on the Roanoke, and can be reached by fairly large boats. * * * It is about 12 miles long, and of varying width, Mr. Whitemeal told me the greatest width was 6 miles. It probably contains 30,000 to 40,000 acres, though one estimate was 70,000 acres . . . It is said that the Indians are tired of living there, and not many of them are left. Many have gone North, and live, I understand, on the Susquehanna; others fell before the Catawbas, who some time ago attacked and killed many of them; others are scattered, as the wind scatters the smoke. A few people have grants from the Lord Proprietor, but Mr. Whitemeal says only to one or more small pieces.”
end of direct [Spangenberg] quote
===============
note: here is a description of Tuscarora Indians scattering “as the wind scatters the smoke”. This is in 1752. I have a feeling many tribes were dissapearing about this same time, and scattering. I think they reappeared not as Tuscarora or Catawba or Saponi, but as “Melungeons, Black Dutch and similar terms in the 1790s.
Between the 1750s and the 1790s were the french and Indian War, Lord Dunsmore’s War, the American Revolution, and the Cherokee/Shawnee wars ending in 1794. They were also at war with the Seneca, or the Tuscarora and the Catawba were at war — I think they were just tired of war and traumatized by it, and just wanted a place to find peace.
[end of Vance Hawkins quote]
Since I agree with Vance, my only further comment is to note that “A few people have grants from the Lord Proprietor” I believe has reference to Earl Granville, whose patent books, plats etc. are extant; see my bracketed note after the date 19 Feb. 1766, about three posts up on this thread. I haven’t worked with the original records at all (someone else had sent me that information); but they are in many cases accessible through published, indexed abstracts of deeds in the counties that interest us. If the deed traces the original land title to a grant from Granville (or his agent), it’s likely that more information is available, not included in the deed or its abstract.
The date of the Spangenberg diary reference, 1752, falls within the period in which this Tar River enclave (if that is what it was) was beginning to form, as people like Osborne Jeffreys left the Meherrin River valley — in this example, moving southwest, and perhaps with something on the order of an entourage.
This message was posted today by sammarroq, starting a thread of its own, but it’s quite relevant here (and probably on several other threads that I haven’t personally been following). There is a gold mine of information, it is quite a long document — with many separate lists of taxables, between about 1749 and 1764:
Here is a link I found with many names I have seen on this forum, thought it interesting.
http://www.hometown.aol.com/vafdking/grantax1.htm
I am related to Anne Shoemaker who married Dennis Fielder of Prince Edward Co., Va. They later moved to Grayson Co.,Va in the late 1700’s.
PappyDick wrote: I’m going to attempt to post a photo of Jonathan Hulan (1797-1887) and his wife Eliza Trexler (1809-1902). They are my grgrgrandparents, mentioned in post #9, above. They were married 27 Dec. 1827 in Rowan Co. NC. In the 1850 census, Davidson Co. TN, the name is spelled Huling and they are called “M” (mulatto). Since then the name has been spelled Hulan, and their descendants have been considered “W.”
My great-uncle Charlie told me in about 1957 that Eliza was “Black Dutch.” But she was born in PA, and I believe he was confused as to which grandparent that story applied to. Jonathan’s ancestry was from Saponi settled areas of NC, though he was born in VA.
Black Dutch has generally two meanings: 1) Pennsylvania Germans that are usually from the Palatine and are dark from unknown mixture while still in Europe 2) families from the southeast US that are mixed with Native American
I have both.
I’m just reviving this thread; it wasn’t mine to begin with, but I posted my family here — and I note that Bill Childs has never commented (on mine, or any of the rest of it). Seems like all one has to do, in most cases, is to say “I wonder who my [Saponi, or other nonwhite VA/NC] ancestors were,” and he asks about two questions, and then tells them. So… I wonder who my [Saponi, &c.] ancestors were.
In another vein — an old friend of mine, Don Yoder, wrote something about the Black Dutch a long time ago, and I haven’t been able to lay my hands on it to give it a proper citation. Anyhow, he quoted some Pennsylvania source, referring to something highly unlikely, with this apparently traditional expression (in the way one might say, “when pigs fly”): “One might as well seek for a dancing-master among the Black Dutch.” He didn’t think people whose main distinguishing mark was dark hair or complexion would have a genetic predisposition to clumsiness, or any inherited reason for choosing not to dance. So he speculated that it was cultural — possibly religious. But as far as I know, Don never solved that little conundrum to his own satisfaction. I believe the discussion was in Pennsylvania Folklife, a magazine he used to edit. But it may have been elsewhere in his writings, several of which are standard sources for PA German genealogy.
PappyDick wrote: “have you placed your surnames on here before?”
My grgrgrandfather Jonathan Hulan was a M(ulatto) in the 1850 census of Davidson County TN, having moved there about 1845 from southern Rowan Co. NC. He (and wife Eliza Trexler) had a son Osborne. He also left a closely related Osborne Hulin back in NC. So I’m fairly sure the Thomas Huland who followed Osborne Jeffreys around was Jonathan’s grandfather, but haven’t proved it, and don’t have the wives’ names. From 1860 to the present, Jonathan and his descendants have been white.
This is how I am related to the Hulan’s. Please let me know if you have info on Jonathan Hulan’s parents so I can continue making a tree.
My GGGGranparents
Jonathan Hulan
APRIL 22, 1797- MARCH 22, 1887
**married**
Elizabeth Trexler Hulan
JUNE 25, 1808-JUNE 15, 1902
Eliza and Jonathan are buried in the old Hobbs Cemetery in Nashville, TN.
<a href="http://blog.myspace.com/http://davidsoncocemeterysurvey.com/Cemeteries/H-L/hobbs_cemetery.htm“>
Jonathan and Elizabeth Hulan moved to TN from NC in 1851.
Jonathan and Eliza are listed as black in the 1870 census, and white in the 1880 census. Indians seemed to “change”race depending on the area they lived since they were neither black nor white.
The 11 Children of Jonathan and Eliza Hulan:
1) William Ashville Hulan
Birthplace: North Carolina, USA
Death: 1947 Davidson, Tennessee, USA
2) Catherine Hulan
Birthplace: North Carolina, USA
Death: 1940
3) Ellen Hulan
Birthplace: North Carolina
4) Serena Hulan Born: 1836-1901
Birthplace: North Carolina
5) Ann Gentta Hulan Birthplace: North Carolina
6) Thomas Hulan
7) Malinda Jane Hulan
Birthdate: 18??-1900
Birthplace: North Carolina
8)George Washington Hulan
Birthdate: Nov.9, 1848
Birthplace: Nashville, TN
[FONT=’Times New Roman’]9) Seremanda Hulan[/FONT]
[FONT=’Times New Roman’]Birthplace:North Carolina[/FONT]
[FONT=’Times New Roman’]10) Osborne Hulan
Death: 1865
[/FONT]11)
Either they had two children named Catherine or I am missing a name.
———————————————–
My GGGrandparents
George Washington Hulan
Nov. 9, 1848 – Oct. 5, 1937
**Married 2-20-1876**
Emma Gower Hulan
Feb. 22, 1850 – Apr. 21, 1923
<a href="http://blog.myspace.com/http://davidsoncocemeterysurvey.com/Cemeteries/H-L/hulan_cemetery.htm“>
—————————-
My GGrandparents
Archie B. Hulan
Jan. 1889 – Feb. 1952
**Married**
Matilda Victory Hulan
Date of birth unknown – 1942
——————————-
My Grandparents
William P. Hulan
August 1918-April 1990
**Married**
Frances Irene Evans Hulan
Jan. 30, 1922-Nov. 17, 2004
Both are buried at Harpeth Hills Cemetery on Hwy 100, Nashville, TN. http://dbease.tennessean.com/dbEase/cgi-bin/go_get.pl
They had three children, William “Preston” Hulan, William Dean “Peanut” Hulan and Patricia Irene “Patsy” Hulan.
—————————————-
Patricia Irene Hulan
July 29, 1951
**married (1969)**
Carl Jerry Davids
Nov. 24, 1952
They have a son, Jerry Dale Davids born June 3, 1970
They have a daughter (me) Sherrie Rene Davids, Sept. 10, 1971
They have a Grandaughter, Candice Rene Davids, Sept. 16, 1989
—————————————————
This is how I am related to the Hulan’s. Please let me know if you have info on Jonathan Hulan’s parents so I can continue making a tree.
I don’t think this thread needs to be about the Hulan family, which wasn’t mentioned until about message #8. I’ll answer you off-list about that. It is about enclaves of people, some of Saponi ancestry (or otherwise ancestral to modern Melungeons, and others whose genealogy is hard to nail down), living near each other on branches of the Tar River. Some of the Hulans from whom we descend lived in such an enclave, of which the leading citizen seems to have been Osborne Jeffreys.
Your list of children of Jonathan and Eliza (Trexler) Hulan is a little out of sequence, but does include their son Osborne (who, I have suggested, was at some remove named for Osborne Jeffreys).
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