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For archeological findings on the material culture of Saponi Indians go to this site:
http://rla.unc.edu/Publications/Res_reports.html
There are a number of reports from digs there. They’re in pdf format. Some take a long time to download. A few of them I had to download overnight they were so big, but they’re worth it, very good illustrations.
The reports for the Eno, Haw areas, and the Alamance sites may well be our Blackfoot. There’s a map with one of them, showing all the sites around the area now called Saxapahaw, NC. There were so many black dots for sites, the whole corner of the county for nearly blacked out. a big settlement was there.
Anyone interested in the mixed race settlements in Hamilton Co and Rush Co, Indiana, should read Stephen A. Vincent’s book “Southern Seed, Northern Soil”, Indiana Un. Press.(1999) It does an excellent job of tracing these two communities from their roots in the Northampton/Greensville area to Indiana. Family names touched on are mainly Roberts, Watkins, Jeffries, Winburn, Walden, Tootle, Swett, Revels, and Newsome.
These are not delt with as Indian families, altho’ the Indian background is noted. The Beech Settlement in Rush Co. is completely gone. Only the church and graveyard remain. Roberts Settlement in Hamilton Co. has a church, graveyard, and a few descendants still in the area.
Many of the descendants made Cherokee application in the early 20th century to be placed on the Guion Miller roll. All appear to have been rejected. See Jerry Jordan’s “Cherokee By Blood” series for partial abstracts of these applications. The originals are availible for viewing at the National Archives, or at the Qualla Boundary Reservation in Cherokee, N.C. ( and probably several other places)
Brenda, you need to have Acrobat Reader installed. It’s a free download. Just searching on those words should get you to the right place.
Forest, thanks for the info. I talked to Ed Emerson in Vernon County, he was very easy to reach and easy to talk to.
The book Southern Seed, Northern Soil costs $35 at Amazon.com. This link should take you there.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0253335779/neuronet
You can read 21 pages out of the book at Amazon, including the index, which will let you see what surnames are discussed. Most of these families are from Northampton County.
Forest, does this community relate to either the Vernon County, or the Racine, WI communities we’ve been talking about on this thread? Or is this useful because it goes into depth on a similar community?
[This message has been edited by Linda (edited 12-13-2001).]
Hello, I have been looking over some of the materials here, and I have a question re. the language family ,what dialect of Sioux did the Blackfoot use? Is there any of this language left anywhere? I think that we should try to find some reference to it. I can say that I would like to see this site more developed than what it is now, so far I think that it is reaching alot of people but more should be done,like showing some of the archaeological materials and more pictures perhaps of some of the old Nations sites etc. Perhaps even family sites with photos etc, what do you say Linda? Thanks for the venue Tom.
Absolutely, I want much more stuff up. I’ve got materials in my file drawer, with the intention of scanning or typing it in, but it’s hard to find the time. Any volunteers?
The language spoken was close to Tutelo, if not the same. There is a “Grammar and Dictionary of Tutelo” just done by a doctoral student. It’s available from UMI Dissertation Services 800-521-0600. The author is Giulia R. M. Oliverio. I think you need to specify it’s in the dissertation microfilm collection. They have trouble finding it in their list, but IT IS THERE. It’s about $40 for an unbound copy, more for binding or hardcover.
There are some pages on language at the Occaneechi site, http://www.occaneechi-saponi.org/tutelo-saponi/wakasik/index.shtml
There was some talk of doing a language class at the Haliwa Saponi site http://www.haliwa-saponitribe.com/, though it doesn’t seem to be there anymore. I believe the intention in both cases are to keep it basically for tribal members.
I’m a bit antsy about moving on this myself. I’m seeing what I can do about it. . .
Here’s a great link for archeological reports on the VA/NC Saponi:
http://rla.unc.edu/Publications/Res_reports.html
I’ve gleaned a few images from there myself. Some of these documents are huge files. I’ve set them to download when I go to bed. Great image quality though. Let me know if you find anything.
As for music, here’s a link to some Tutelo music our Cayuga cousins have kept alive:
http://www.ohwejagehka.com/shakethebushdance.htm
Hey Linda, well that’s quite a reply! Yes if I can help I’d be glad to, but how can I from here? I’m very happy about the Tutelo music from our Cayuga cousins1 I hope to hear them one day! I did some checking on the dialect division where the Tutelo would fit and low and behold they are close to the Biloxi and Ofo of louisiana, these 2 groups are a special interest of mine and perhaps we can glean something from thier history.Also i have a good grasp on some of the basket traditions that these 2 groups (aswell as other divisions from this branch of sioux peoples) used prior to contact, which would translate to other art forms patterns etc. When will we see some of the materials from old Blackfoot haunts? why is everything called Saponi? Linda please email me,with directions to send you some photos. Thanks again Tom.
I’m sure you know more than you know you know. How did you happen to become interested in the Biloxi and Ofo?
Send any photos to linda@winwinworld.net
as attachments and I’ll get them onto the server. You can hear some Tutelo music right now, just click on that link I just gave. They have three songs on sound files.
Everything is called Saponi because at Ft. Christanna, Governor Spotswood got tired of trying to keep track of who was what, so he just decided everybody would be referred to as Saponi. So from then on, most historical accounts used that jargon.
That’s one reason why I treasure the Blackfoot identification we have, it’s what we called ourselves, and if it does in fact relate to the large Sissipaha settlement around present day Saxapahaw, then it relates to the Eno/Shakori branch of the Piedmont Siouan.
If you haven’t noticed, the post I started under “Shoot the Breeze” has just turned into a Tutelo language immersion thread. I know who Greywolf is, but the other person is a mystery Tutelo speaker.
Hey, pretty nice stuff happening! Well I started studying Louisiana tribes when I got interested in river cane baskets, that was 1979, and since then I have kept up with some of what is out there on the tribes from that area, and generally across the southeast with some interest in the Qualla Cherokees and many others, including the Ga, groups aswell. If I can ever open those files from NCU. I figure that I should have a good idea of what old NC. Blackfoot cane basketry should look like thanks again, Tom.
Yeah, like I said, some of those are huge files. Set it to download onto your hard drive , (if you’ve got room) late at night and then you can read them easily. They are worth the trouble.
Hello, I’ve looked at the Mingo site it looks very interesting, but like English is a language away from Blackfoot. however the people who speak that language do interest me and I’d like to see more on them, perhaps they will start something in the future, it sounds as though they are or were apart of the 6 Nations. Has anyone looked at reconstructing what the material culture was like for the ” Saponi” during the early years of history? Also, in a book re: the catawba there was some good references to historical data on these tribes including Sissipahas,have you seen The Catawba Indians, People along the River? happy trails, Tom.
I haven’t seen that book. Thanks for the tip.
The Occaneechi Band of the Saponi have been working hard on material culture. There’s a museum at the Occaneechi State Park in Clarksville, VA, and the re-created village in Hillsborough. There are Living Villages three or four times a year. There’s a link to their site on the main page.
It’s tough because there’s very little recorded. Also tough to re-enact accurately since our people were basically “nekkid” Indians much of the year. Basically, folks wore breachcloths or aprons. Period. Wasn’t I talking about that awhile ago?
A lot of people have keyed off the “Siouan” aspect and gone for Sioux style garments, but that’s not correct. It’s all still in-process. There are White’s drawings of the Powhatans, Secotan, which I think are probably the closest glimpse we have, Lawson’s “history” and Byrd’s history of the line with brief descriptions. That’s about it.
http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/vcdh/jamestown/images/white_debry_html/white36.html
Hello,what do you mean “still all in process”? Did you know that in England there is a shirt from the Lawson ? collection that dates before 1660? it has a rare type of “quillwork” on it, it’s something that we should look at! Also why do you think our people were called Blackfoot? what could have possibly been the reason for this? do you think that it may have been because they wore black dyed moccasins? there could be many others, but after speaking to elders from the south about this issue 12 years ago it was one issue that they brought up, and I think a good one,even though many southern tribes did, it could be that our folks were the only ones to wear them in that area, and probably would be if some of them did so again. Aswell what pattern or type of moccasin do you think that they may have had? I’d bet that it was of the center seam type like many other southern groups had. I think that some of the very old Plains Sioux clothing may have had a bearing on what our folks wore but it was from a pre-contact period or shortly afterwards, but making use of todays styles seams rather odd,with what we have in old records and what still exists may lead to a better understanding of how we should redefine a clothing style for tribal members. Linda perhaps we need a seperate forum for this topic what do you think? Also you’re right on the money when you said that you thought it was wonderful that our families would still remember our traditional name, so with all this outside of the old Blackfoot area (is there still a Blackfoot people in N.C.?) how do they respond to us that are from so far away? I guess that it is up to each of us to define ourselves , but I would like to see some sort of continuity, amongst all of us. What do you think Linda, and anyone else out there too, Tom.
By “in process” I mean like in “work in progress.” Do you know where in England that shirt is? I’d like to know more about it. I have a friend over in London who’s interested in these things. Maybe he could look it up for us.
My feeling about the meaning of the word Blackfoot is that it’s very, very ancient. I say that because there are some Sioux out west called “Sihisapa” which also means Blackfoot. It was when I saw a lady identify herself online as Sihisapa, meaning Blackfoot Sioux, that I thought of that village “Sissipaha” I’d seen mentioned in North Carolina.
I believe the word signifies something that goes back as far as the time when all the Siouan people were together, the archeos say in Ohio. Some Dakota oral histories say Ohio, too.
From the explorer accounts, etc. it sounds like people in the southeast dressed somewhat similarly, regardless of tribe. I mean, I think they were widely different in terms of decoration, but for example, if in one tribe the men just wore breachcloths in summer, the men in the tribe next door weren’t dressed in leather warshirts and hip high leggings all summer.
I love the idea of maintaining some continuity however far flung we are. There are Blackfoot in NC, but for the most part, they don’t know much more about it than any of the rest of us. Remember, here in the upper south since the early 1700’s Indians were classified either as blacks or mullatoes, which is why a lot of people left out of here.
I think there is a commonality, that we’re all just kind of finding out about this and about each other at the same time.
We might also fare well since we seem to all be in pretty poor position to be qualifying for recognition as some discrete group that’s stayed put in one place for centuries. This could be a good thing since it keeps us all even and independent to do and share as we please. We’ll just have to recognize one another and be satisfied with that. Nothing wrong with that. That’s all it was ever about.
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