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Linda,
As I stated, it wasn’t that I thought this “different” type of step was indicative of Indian heritage. It was the racist comment that his grandfather made that was illuminating to me. Him telling him to “not walk like a damn Indian” may have been his way of continuing to hide the “story” (his Native background). Also, as I explained, there is a psychological phenomena, as witnessed by me of my two brothers who were abused for being brown and different in racist Virginia neighborhoods, of trying to become one with the opressor.
I am not saying that there is anything such as an “Indian” walk and know that it is offensive to talk about sneaky, quiet walkin Indians. More credit please.
Although, Natives were expert woodspeople as we know, and one must know many things if they are to survive and hunt with success. Have you ever tried?
Thank you Teachtech for your response. I was able to link to the Mother Bedford site (the other link didn’t work for me) and I learned a great deal about the Susquehannock. That gives me some context for the possible reason that my ancestor may have been visiting in that area at some point.
This journey for me has been so very educational about the Eastern Indians (the first to suffer). Even if it turns out that I am not Native, I will feel enriched for all that I have learned.
Thanks again and peace,
Nadia
If you can afford it, you might consider a DNA test. I just had one done that verifies the rumors I had heard and turned out just as my genealogy research seemed to indicate.
I am waiting on the results from national geographic also, but they are very slow. I don’t anticipate anything in this test. No rumors on that side of the family.
Techteach
Ngraham, I’m not sure if I should say this or not but are you looking to find native American ancestors or just doing research already knowing that you are a first nations person?
I have read your posts and enjoy your additions I must say that you look very much first Nations to me, and I do hope that you hang with us.
Thanx for your posts once again.
Hey Tom,
Thanks for the comments. I am looking (with the help of Bill Childs) for evidence to support a strong suspicion of Native background. First of all, we have the “rumor” passed down from my Mom. We have known Saponi lines (Potter, Hill, Robinson and one other I would have to look back at Bill’s notes) married into one of my direct ancestor’s family (Smith) in Warren County, KY. They (the Smith family) were originally from NC and SC and possibly at some point, Virginia.
Then my other direct ancestor, Thomas Scott, married into this family in KY. He claims to be IRE/CAN (Bill says he is suspicious of any Scott from that area that claims this). Then we have this whole mystery involving my other direct ancestors, the Buck’s (traced as far back as the Mohawk Valley in the late 1700’s that just deadends) a descendent of whom (another direct relation), marries a child of a Scott/Smith union.
It seems the Bucks, Smiths, Scotts all know each other and there is a lot of following each other around and they are seemingly in geographic areas that are also coincidentally hotspots for Natives at the right time. There is also a lot of E. Siouan names that marry into the Smith line.
So the suspicion is there, but no direct evidence that my direct ancestors (the Buck, Scott, and Smith family, along with their respective marriages) are actually “proven” to be Native.
I would love to hang with you folks, even if I’m never “proven.” A lot of good people, in my opinion, on this forum.
Peace,
Nadia
Nadia,
OK, you not only have several locations similar to mine, but you just listed two of my names, Smith and Potter. Smith is not direct, but it is a name found intermarrying. However, Potter is direct. If you search this forum for Potter, you will find a picture of my gggrandmother, Mary Lovina Potter. It is easy to see from her picture that she is at least part NA. My great aunt’s autobiography says “Indian blood is close in her family.” Please tell me how you know that the name Potter is Saponi and any other details you care to share.
Techteach
Nadia,
I also extend my welcome to the family. This is truly the greatest group of folks you will ever hang with. 😉 We will find truth, and a proponderance of circumstantial evidence but we may never find “proof”. The truth is what most of us want. Spend some time with the forum search feature and reading the history archives…. the amount of data here is awesome. You have found home;-)
Ken
OK, this is huge. Had to split it into two posts. Sorry. Below you will find two databases that contain my Potters. Some info from Bill Childs that ties these to probable Saponi lines and a little bit of info relating Potters to the Kirby’s. I know Bill said more about the Kirby’s and Owens and Tarrant family that goes back to Old Rappahanhock, Va., but I can’t find his note right now.
Peace, and thanks for the responses and welcoming,
Nadia
Westall HILL b: 1 May 1780 d: 15 Feb 1843
+ Elizabeth G. b: 22 May 1785 d: 27 Feb 1863
2 Mary Ann HILL b: 26 Sep 1802 d: 1881
+ Nathan HILL b: 28 Feb 1799 d: 1875
3 Elijah Wesley HILL b: 1827
+ Susan POTTER
4 Nathan F. HILL b: 18 Apr 1851
4 Waller B. HILL b: 2 Feb 1857
+ Sallie L. WOOTEN
5 J. Prentice HILL
4 Preston J. HILL b: 14 Apr 1853
+ Nellie R. SANSOM
4 HILL
4 Elizabeth R. HILL
+ Hugh BARCLAY b: 10 Nov 1827
3 Joseph Jefferson HILL b: c. 1830
+ Amanda H. BRATTON
4 Nathan James HILL b: c. 1855
+ Mattie E. b: c. 1857
5 Joseph P. HILL b: c. 1879
4 Mary F. HILL b: 1859
+ Virginia A. COLLETT b: c. 1845
4 Hugh B. HILL b: c. 1867
3 Elizabeth (Eliza) R. HILL
+ Hugh BARCLAY b: 10 Nov 1827
4 Nathan P. BARCLAY
4 Mollie A. BARCLAY
4 Maggie BARCLAY
4 Joseph Eli BARCLAY
4 Jennie H. BARCLAY
4 Sallie E. BARCLAY
2 Ellen O. HILL b: 21 Oct 1805 d: 15 Sep 1843
+ Benjamin Covington SMITH b: 12 Dec 1799 d: 26 Feb 1869
3 Sarah Anne SMITH
3 Jane Eliza SMITH
3 Mary SMITH b: 3 Sep 1828 d: 1833
3 Adeline SMITH
3 Virginia Thomas SMITH
3 James SMITH b: 1834
3 Fanny SMITH
3 Josephine SMITH
3 Julia SMITH
3 William H. SMITH b: 3 Oct 1841 d: 24 Dec 1922
2 James A. HILL
2 Thomas Robertson HILL b: 31 Dec 1808
3 Thomas E. HILL
4 Joseph Erasmus HILL
5 Margaret Francis HILL
2 Drusilla HILL
+ William DAVIDSON
2 Julia F. HILL
+ Pleasant POTTER
3 Effie C. POTTER b: 28 Feb 1852
2 John R. HILL
I have further surnames involved with Smith’s: Robinson, Garvin, Wilkerson, Scott, Bass, Cooksey….so many surnames….so many things to do.
1 Westal HILL b: 1 MAY 1780 d: 15 FEB 1843
+ Elizabeth G. ROBINSON b: ABT 1784
2 James A. HILL b: BET 1800 AND 1810
2 Mary Ann HILL b: 1802 d: 1881
+ Nathan HILL b: ABT 1800
3 Elijah Wesley HILL b: 26 JUL 1827
+ Susan POTTER b: ABT 1831
4 Nathan F. HILL b: 18 APR 1851 d: 4 DEC 1927
+ Ellen V. FORD b: 12 MAY 1851
5 Frederick HILL b: ABT 1876
5 Fannie HILL b: ABT 1879
4 Preston J. HILL b: 14 APR 1853
+ Nellie R. SANSOM b: ABT 1856
4 Waller B. HILL b: 2 FEB 1857 d: 22 MAY 1942
+ Sallie L. WOOTEN b: 25 JAN 1856
5 J. Prentice HILL b: ABT 1885
5 Daughter H. HILL b: ABT 1890
+ Guy J. TURNER b: ABT 1886
2 Drucilla HILL b: BET 1803 AND 1822
+ William DAVIDSON
2 Ellen O. HILL b: 21 OCT 1805 d: 15 SEP 1843
+ Benjamin Covington SMITH
2 Thomas R. HILL b: BET 1810 AND 1815
2 John R. HILL b: BET 1815 AND 1820
2 Julia Frances HILL b: 30 MAR 1820
+ Pleasant J. POTTER b: 29 MAR 1820
3 Elizabeth Bell POTTER b: 25 NOV 1844
3 Mary Read POTTER b: 21 MAY 1846
3 James Erasmus POTTER b: 14 AUG 1848
3 Ella F. POTTER b: 27 MAR 1850
3 Effie C. POTTER b: 28 FEB 1852
3 Emma Nellie POTTER b: 3 MAR 1855
3 Sallie A. POTTER b: 10 MAR 1856
3 Hubert Pleasant POTTER b: ABT 26 MAR 1858
3 William J. POTTER b: 27 JUN 1860
3 Pearl POTTER b: ABT 1866
AHA.
A 2nd and 3rd ‘hit’.
Pleasant Potter, b.1820 Warren Co., Ky., a descendant of Thomas Potter of ‘old’ Pittsylvania Co., Va., is related -just not sure how, yet- to the Halifax Co., Va. HEDGPETH/HEDGEPATH (being one of those Saponi lines and I don’t think there was more than one line of them there although I could be misinformed) and Pleasant Potter’s mother Elizabeth Kirby’s father Jesse Kirby’s grandmother was Joann OWENS of Halifax Co., Va., another probable E.Sioux line.
Not being able to find Lewis Potter on any earlier Virginia records doesn’t necessarily mean he was NDN, but it would be an alternative explanation.
Hit # 4?? There is also reason for me to believe that Lewis Potter is related in some way to his neighbor Lewis GREEN, whose descendants do have family oral history of being NDN.
Like we always say, there’s never just ONE.
Nadia,
From “Entry Record Book, 1737 – 1770” subtitled ‘Land Entries in the present Virginia counties of Halifax, Pittsylvania, Henry, Franklin and Patrick’ (all are on the Va/NC border).
By 1748, Wm Atkinson had patented 400 acres on both sides of Flat Creek, a southern branch of the Pig River in what later became Henry Co., Va., and then transfered (sold) this land to LEWIS POTTER in 1748.
This is in the heart of Saponi country, many of whom start turning up on colonial land records in this time period as they assimilated. I don’t know that Lewis Potter or his unknown wife were Saponi, but one of the things one looks at is where and when someone lived.
(On Sep. 28, 1743, Wm Kerby entered 200 acres on Sandy Creek above the great falls next to Jno. Stuart/Stewart – another known Saponi.)
If you assume, based on being in the same location, that Lewis Potter is the father of Benjamin and Thomas Potter who have just ‘come of age’, the following land records support that assumption:
On 20 Sept., 1764, Benjamin POTTER acquired 400 acres on the south side of Pig River at the mouth of Doe Creek.
On 11 Dec 1764, William LUCAS (probably a Saponi or married to one), patented 400 acres on Turkey Creek, “begining at Thos. POTTER’s lower line”, meaning Thos Potter was already a land owner in 1764. Thomas named a son Lewis.
……………
These are the same Potters (I found this on a rootsweb forum) only this person is concentrating on William and my descendant (an in-law….but you always said, “Look who they marry!”) is from Frederick, William’s brother. William’s wife, Nancy Kirby comes from a line that goes back to Tully Choice and Ann Duff (of VA), who I believe I found evidence of Native ancestry for. It’s interesting to me that there are some Butler’s and Johnson’s mixed in here….as I am now aware of the Johnson/Butler Native ancestry in the Mohawk valley and have found some other Johnson ties here and there in the Buck line…..so maybe this is the glue that relates the Mohawk Valley Buck’s to the Smith’s and supposedly CA/IRE Thomas Scott (my gggrandfather).
Gayle, My Potters begin with Thomas b.5/26/1746 in Martinsville, Henry Co. Virginia. d.12/14/1824 Warren Co. Ky.Buried at Plano, near Bowling Green. He married Ann, or Susann or Susanna Ann ________ ?b. 1766 or 67 in Virginia.
They had 10 children: William b.10/29/1772, Lewis, Elisha,Reuben,Benjamin,Joshua,Rachel,Betsy,Frederick,and Nancy. Frederick m. Elizabeth Kirby 4/29/1807. Betsy m. Jacob Harrington in 1800.Rachel m.Joseph Matthews 1801. William, who is my direct ancestor m.2/14/1798 Nancy Kirby b.10/23/1781. William died 2/26/1831 in Warren Co. Ky. (he was born in Henry Co. Virginia) Nancy died 3/11/1844,also Warren Co.
Their children were: George Washington Potter b.11/09/1815,Elizabeth,John,Mildred,James b.1805,Jesse b.11/30/1805,Thomas b.1808,Daniel b.1810,Elijah,Joseph b.2/09/1818,Burton b.6/05/1820,and Nancy b.7/18/1824. Nancy m.John McConnell Tarrant,Burton m.Elizabeth Heaner,Joseph m.Julia Tarrant,Daniel m.Elizabeth Johnson,Jesse m.Martha Johnson,James m.Mary Kirby,George Washington my direct ancestor was born in Warren Co. Kentucky m. Agnes Clark Johnson b.10/14/1813 in Warren Co.Ky. He died 5/22 or 23/1879 in Dade Co.Missouri. She 10/14/1888 also Dade Co.Mo.
Their children: Rumina Elizabeth Potter b.9/07/1854, John Calvin,Charles Burton b.1842,Martha (Mat)Minerva b.1844, Mary Melinda (Sis),Elijah Harrison (Lige),Ewing Lafayette (Coot),and Susan Belle (Belle). Charles whose wife is unknown, had 4 children Oliver Jeptha b.1866,Hamlet b.1868,Mary Helen b.1871,and Rosa Belle b.1875.Rosa Belle m.Perry Grisham. Martha (Mat) m.Fide Edvnunson,
Rumina Elizabeth (Bet) Potter is my direct ancestor. She married my GGrandfather William Butler Criswell 12/1887 in Everton, Dade Co. Missouri where she was born.
Talk about long.. sorry it is a book not a chapter. I hope some of this will assist you.
John Criswell
Kentucky: A History of the State, Perrin, Battle, Kniffin, 4th ed., 1887, Boyle County.
ELIJAH P. FAULCONER was born February 22, 1844, near Lexington, Ky., where he was reared until sixteen years of age, when he removed with his parents to Boyle County, locating four miles and a half north of Danville, where he has since resided. His father, Joseph Faulconer, a native of Virginia was born in 1801, and removed with his parents in boyhood to Fayette County, Ky., where he engaged in farming. By the late war he lost twenty-five slaves. He died February 25, 1880. He was the son of Nelson Faulconer, of Virginia, who died of cholera in 1833, leaving a family consisting of Joseph, Ann (Barton) and Susan (Offutt). Joseph Faulconer espoused Julia Nichols, of Woodford County (born 1808, died 1879), and to them were born Fannie (Dolan), Thomas (deceased), Margaret (Taylor), Henry (deceased), Mary (Spears), Joseph, Nannie (McCarley) and Elijah P. October 27, 1875, Elijah P. was united in marriage to Miss Effie C., daughter of Pleasant J. and Julia F. (Hill) Potter, of Bowling Green, Ky., (born February 28, 1852), and their union has been blessed by the birth of three children, viz: Pleasant Joseph, William ELijah and Pearl Potter. Mr. Faulconer obtained an education at the Kentucky University at Harrodsburg, Bethel College in Scott County and Transylvania University at Lexington. He is a farmer and is engaged in raising trotting horses, jacks and the purest grade of Berkshire hogs. He owns about thirty head of trotting breed horses, and receives trotting stock from distant parts for purposes of propagation. He owns 300 acres of very productive and well improved land, which he successfully cultivates in hemp, corn, wheat, barley and other crops, having raised 82,000 pounds of hemp last year. Mr. Faulconer is a member of the Christian Church, and in politics is identified with the Democratic party. He is also a member of the Masonic fraternity.
My 3rd Great Grandfather was John Thomas Scott. He married a woman named Katherine Puss or Puce. John Thomas Scott was born around 1843 Tishomingo Co., MS the son of William Samuel Scott and Manivera Hamilton. They all moved to Ellis County, TX then to Fannin Co., TX. They died in Honey Grove, TX. I don’t know anything else on them other than this, but was wondering if any names sounded familiar to you?
Thanks
Just the Thomas part. I can’t find anything in the Canadian Archives or on LDS (don’t really trust that) that has anything on my Thomas Scott (my gggrandfather). All I know is what we find on the census material:
b.1840 Canada, mother and father born Ireland. He married Julia Elizabeth Smith in Bowling Greens, Warren County, KY (surety given by D. J. Williams, date of bond Sep. 26 1871).
He is listed as immigrating to the US in 1864 and is Naturalized (Bill says all they had to do was tell the census taker this info, no proof required).
On the 1870 census for Bowling Greens, he was living with Peter Wilkerson and his wife Josephine (Smith….my Julia’s sister), their children and John B. Morgan 27(dry goods merchant KY) and Cuinna Robertson, 17 (attending school), Ellen Howard, Louis Temple, John Smith (all appearing as domestic servants).
They (Thomas and Julia) moved to Maywood, Cook Co., Ill with his two daughters, Jessie (Josephine) and Lizzie (Elizabeth Julia). Why they moved there is a question mark). They appear on the 1880 census in Maywood (coincidentally the place where we find Solomon Buck, my ggggrandfather, at this time) .
In 1900, they move back to Bowling Greens and are living with Fannie Smith (Julia’s other sister), her son John Covington and William Smith (Julia’s brother).
Bill couldn’t find Thomas or Julia Scott after this.
On my previous post about Potters I neglected to say that Prentice D. Hill, son of Sallie Wooten and Waller B. Hill, marries Lucie Haskell (don’t know if there is a relation to this Haskell and the Haskell that my gggrandfather Madison Hun Buck marries (Helena Victoria Haskell) in Wisconsin. I know some Haskell families are Native. Also, Alleyene Dudleight Hill marries Guy Jewell Turner. Bill says that Turners and Jewells are suspicious names for E. Siouan descent. All this info can be found on the Blackman-Farmer Roots tree on rootsweb.
Nadia,
Green is also one of my direct names. Mine were in Berkeley County WVA and eastern MD, near Baltimore. The only Hills marry into the Greens in Ohio.
I looked at my great-aunt’s book yesterday. She makes blunt inferences that the Potters and the Sinkeys, who were descendents of the Greens, were NDN. My DNA results certainly imply that. They mirror what genealogy implies.
Techteach
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