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Okay, I got the link fixed. There was a period at the end.
http://rla.unc.edu/Publications/Res_reports.html
hey there –
linda ive got skematics for Saura woman, if you’d like a copy. detail shows placement of beadwork and probable configuration. also included are number of ornaments and bells.this dress was however most likely a ceremonial dress or one made for the internment. it is very noisy – about 300 mini bells and a series of brass and copper pendants. let me know if you want more. i have a cd rom of ocaneechi town if you dont have a copy.
Yes I would like a copy of the schematics. Can you send it as an attachment? What’s on the Occaneechi Town CD?
Here’s a sketch I did based on a Piedmont Siouan gorget. I’ll have to look up just where it was from.
Thanks Linda! I will Check it out! you know the image obove this entry? I think I have probably drawn that same image 100 times just in doodeling that is realy amazing, Ancestory work in mysterious ways!
That little coincidence just brightened this gray day. Since I just showed you something you already knew, maybe you can suggest what it signifies. We won’t say it’s a message for the Other Side or anything, just a little free association for the heck of it.
It is a little grey here today to… It’s Michigan… Shocker.Anyway
That is a gosh darn good question. this is a stab in the dark but, well you have the 4 directions and I have heard of 7, maybe it is a kind of directional symbol, I have always been kind of Artsy but when I would draw it it just felt kind of felt more than just a simple drawing like signifying self a movement between the inner and the outer. I wish I could give a better theory.
I’ve seen Itconani chime in with some info on a point like this, something documented. Maybe that will happen again. . .
If you did that pattern with cowrie shells it could fill a large area and make a strong statement.
I was putting the finish on another flute and tried this pattern, except I carved lines instead of dots. It wound up looking like a snowflake, so I don’t know that I’ll do that again. I didn’t think the dots would read very well in wood in a pattern only an inch across. I’m still in the market for a motif I could use to decorate flutes. Maybe this would work, though, if I filled the dots in with color.
hey all –
looks like we need a new topic heading.
any way, linda where does this piece derive from? what if known is the date associated (ie historic, late woodland, etc..)
i would say that it probably does have some esoteric meaning.
possibly sun symbol or directional. maybe it has to do with how the things are divided up – like the known world.
its really hard to say without other references. many of these symbols are lost to history for meaning unless there are a number of pieces found in situ to establish a context. ive seen dozens of designs on ceramic pipes that look like this. now those are historic pipes, the dots made by rolling a watch sprocket along the clay to create a series of dots in rows with moons and all kinds of stuff for border designs.
i think some things could just be decorative too, without heavy meaning.
you should see what kids draw sometime as decorations, with no intended meaning behind the symbols.
one fella did a dissertation on some of these symbols fromt the historic period in va. – he felt there were heavy west african associations with the clay pipe designs.
i dont think anyone really put much weight in his work though, no one really jumped at the idea because most of the pipes were indian.
i have seen this design, without the 3 dots in the centers of the “pie” shapes.
there are plenty of western beadwork pieces (rosettes) that use the “X” with a straight north south running line.
but here, ive seen this simple concept on slate gorgets, and bone carvings on tools. triangles, diamonds or “X”‘s are very popular – as are dots to form them.
sooo who knows? but the important thing i think is to USE the design. There are so many linear designs available for translation it is overwhelming. So i would say use the concept where applicable and translate the pattern for contemporary usage.
ps i think the drawings of saura would need to be scanned. ill try to snail mail them to you. CD rom of occaneechi town is really cool. it has artifacts up the wazoo and lots of house and village patterns.
its an educational cd, so you learn about archeology and historic border colonial history.
Well my Milenium just got made!
Itconani where might i be able to see those artifacts any ideas?
Also My friend is burning those images from that site Linda I am going to try to print them and send them, it might take me a little while but I will get them to you.
Well, I want to run and look through the archeological reports, but I’ve got work work I need to do or I won’t get a gig. I’ll have to get on this later. I want to say the gorget was from the Gaston site, close to historic but I need to look it up to be sure.
That gorget is from the archeology dig at Occaneechi Town. It was one of the gorgets found there. The Blackfoot of the plains area use that design which is a three projectioned fan shape. Of course may be I am only seeing it from one perspective. Another way to look at it is as a medicine wheel.
Hello Everyone, yes I’m still here! Buck and Linda I haven’t forgot you!
I have been working on a paper that I hope will be published sometime this year re. cane baskets, does anyone know any thing about the materials that may have been found from the Saponi Nation?
The moccasin pattern will have to be sanctioned by the people from the New Saponi Town, if we are to have any formal style or type. Aswell I would hope to see several types of patterns and designs one for men and one for women.
If anyone is interested? go to the American Museum of Naural History and surf into their files go to Yuchi and you will see a pair of center seam moccasins w/ a strip of red cloth covering the seam on the toe, this was very common all over the southeast and up quite high in the north, that’s a start! Also any one can apply for a pass word to search the museum collections!
The last issue is the gorget pattern all of these can be interpreted the way the viewer wants to! so pay attention to the numerology there and look for similarities in what you are doing. Keep in mind that this has three dots on each one of the six divisions, three arrows man/ woman, aswell there is seven dots on most of the lines maybe for 4 cardinal points,up down and center creates seven directions, center is within and around you. Remember we all relate the past to the current but what the old folks kept may not be what we are trying to regain ! Best to All Tom.
Hi Tom, I am a little confused by your last sentence. Are you saying we should create our own symbols? SHould we not use the old symbols? help confused…
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