- This topic has 10 voices and 17 replies.
-
Posts
-
Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma and the Cherokee Freemen.
I think most everyone has heard about the Oklahoma Cherokee Nation and the Cherokee Freemen. What do you think about the situation and how should it be handled. I wonder how you feel about the congress trying to step in and make a sovereign nation do something it does not want to do? Do you think the Cherokee Freemen have some tribal rights and if so what should they be?
billbee4u wrote: Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma and the Cherokee Freemen.
I think most everyone has heard about the Oklahoma Cherokee Nation and the Cherokee Freemen. What do you think about the situation and how should it be handled. I wonder how you feel about the congress trying to step in and make a sovereign nation do something it does not want to do? Do you think the Cherokee Freemen have some tribal rights and if so what should they be?
This was taken to vote of the Cherokee Nation and the majority voted to dissenroll them. I don’t think its right for Congress to step in as like you said the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma is a Soverign Nation, by doing this they are stepping onto there soverignty rights. Rather anybody feels this is right or wrong doesn’t really matter because under the constitution and bylaws of the Cherokee Nation majority vote rules, end of story. I think what the Cherokee Nation should do is keep all exsisting “Freedman” decendants currently enrolled, enrolled but not allow any new enrollees of these Freedman decendants from hear on out. Just like back when the Cherokee Nation decided to take these Black slaves in, they can also decide to take them out. For one thing there protection under the Cherokee Nation is no longer needed in these modern times. I also think that maybe as a way to honor what the Cherokee Nation once did for these Freedman’s ancestors that any new enrollees should be allowed “honorary” membership to the Cherokee Nation, this way the family linage will always be remembered but they will not be “voting” members of the Tribe. Rather or not they should still be allowed for benefits such as housing, healthcare, education, and other things through the Cherokee Nation is a whole nother issue within itself. Just my opinion.
Has a voting citizen of the Cherokee Nation the tribe has spoken.
In addition to Cherokee Nation District Court, these issues are being litigated in U.S. District and Appellate Courts in Washington, D.C. Beyond the tribal court reinstatement, the Nation is committed to keeping the Freedmen descendants as citizens until all litigation has been resolved – and beyond if they prevail in court. Congress should allow the Federal and Tribal Courts to do their work without interference.
Cowboy
(Keeper of the Cherokee Self Bow)
As a sovereign nation, the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma has the right to break their treaty with the United States if they chose to do so.
And as a sovereign nation, the United States has the right to impose sanctions against the Cherokee Nation in retaliation.
It is the US who wants to again change and break a treaty, not the Cherokee nation. I do believe their track record on keeping their words and committments to natives is about 0 out of 100,000. Perhaps the UN and EU should impose sanctions on the US for it’s abusive attitudes and behaviour of continuous intimidation.
Greetings Junglegeorge,
Yes, I am well aware of the amazingly dismal record the US has when it comes to honoring treaties with native people. I don’t necessarily agree with how this situation is being handled either. Once the lawyers and politicians get involved, lord help us all!
People from other tribes in my area have asked my opinion on this subject. Although I am not a citizen of the Cherokee nation or a freedmen, I am of Cherokee ancestry, and I want to be able to answer questions regarding this controversy as factually as possible.
Heres is the section of the treaty that it looks like the Cherokee Nation is breaking. If I am in error please correct me.
TREATY WITH THE CHEROKEE, 1866.
ARTICLE 9.
The Cherokee Nation having, voluntarily, in February, eighteen hundred and sixty-three, by an act of the national council, forever abolished slavery, hereby covenant and agree that never hereafter shall either slavery or involuntary servitude exist in their nation otherwise than in the punishment of crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, in accordance with laws applicable to all the members of said tribe alike. They further agree that all freedmen who have been liberated by voluntary act of their former owners or by law,as well as all free colored persons who were in the country at the commencement of the rebellion, and are now residents therein, or who may return within six months, and their descendants, shall have all the rights of native Cherokees: Provided, That owners of slaves so emancipated in the Cherokee Nation shall never receive any compensation or pay forthe slaves so emancipated.
HI, spilled, nice to meet you.
I am not too familiar with this concern, and was only speaking in general. I am not understanding how you feel they are breaking the treaty, as in my newness to all this I must have misunderstood the issues. Could you explain to me how they are breaking that part of the treaty?
Maybe I’m not in agreement with their decision but the US needs to honor the Cherokee Nations decisions. You right regarding the track record the US has about breaking treaties. If the US Gov’t wants to step in, then everyone should aware of such hypocracy that the US gov’t is acting in.
The whole thing is is mess – I think we have listened to lies about blood quantums for so long that we are starting to believe them
I pray something will be worked out.
Hi all, I too have pondered this topic and have 2 cents worth to contribute. (that’s not refundable either!) I don’t think that a day goes by without me asking myself if I might be prejudice or racist. I grew up in the backwoods of the Ozarks and seldom seen a black person, I sure didn’t have any reason to dislike them. We moved to a city where we had 1800 students in high school. Taking me from the backwoods to the city was very cruel!!! I had two black teachers and several black friends. The one teacher was into electronics so we often talked about this and I was even to his house a couple of times. In class he often picked on the black students, which made me feel bad for him and them. It was because he couldn’t pick on the White kids! One Junior or Senior (black) guy was the one person I looked up to, Tyrone Carter. He didn’t see in black and white! He always took up for whoever was right, not the right color. He wasn’t color blind, he was just taught by his parents to do what’s right!
One day a black girl slapped me in class just because she could do it and get away with it. I’m very prejudice! I’m prejudice against people with attitudes but I’m not a racist!
When it’s not going our way, it’s so easy to holler “racist”, “homophobic” or whatever fits the situation. If I’m wrong, anyone can call me whatever you want and it won’t hurt my feelings.
I found this article but the link to it won’t work any longer so I’ll copy and paste it here. It’s probably copyrighted but thought that it shed the right light on the subject by the right person.
I found this article but the link to it won’t work any longer so I’ll copy and paste it here. It’s probably copyrighted but thought that it shed the right light on the subject by the right person.
Let Cherokees decide who’s Cherokee
The tribe’s requirement that members must prove a blood connection isn’t racist.
By Heather Williams, HEATHER WILLIAMS is a Cherokee citizen and an Indian freedmen descendant.
July 10, 2007
I’M PROUD TO BE a Cherokee citizen who is also descended from black slaves, and the Cherokee Nation I know is one of the most diverse, welcoming societies on Earth. Yet today, my tribe stands accused of racism and is the target of legislation introduced by Rep. Diane Watson (D-Los Angeles) aimed at cutting off our federal funding because we amended our tribal constitution to affirm that, in order to be a citizen of the Cherokee Nation, you must prove by-blood descent from Cherokee Indians.
Can a tribe be both inclusive and have a by-blood requirement? My experience proves that it can, and I believe that Indians deserve the right to preserve our heritage through a direct connection to our ancestors.
The constitutional amendment is a recent chapter of a long history. In 1906, a census called the Dawes Roll was created, listing by-blood Indians along with non-Indian residents of Cherokee Territory. Some of those residents were former Cherokee slaves or their descendants, known as freedmen, and an 1866 treaty with the U.S. government called for them to have “rights of native Cherokees.” Watson refers to that treaty as the basis for her contention that all freedmen should be tribal members.
But of course that treaty was controversial. It came after the infamous Trail of Tears and at the end of the Civil War, which ushered in half a century of fierce U.S. government efforts to destroy Cherokee (and other tribes’) sovereignty and land claims. Ultimately, the only “rights of native Cherokees” left to speak of were the right of individuals to a private land allotment and a cash payment from the U.S. government — which non-Indian freedmen and Cherokees alike received when the U.S. dissolved our territory and made Oklahoma a state.
Then, for a long time, there was no functioning Cherokee government. It wasn’t until 1975 that Cherokees were able to revitalize their nation and lay claim to self-governance. The Cherokee constitution was written then, and its intent was that Cherokee citizens should be Indians who could trace their lineage to at least one by-blood Indian listed on the Dawes Roll.
However, a group of freedmen who aren’t Indian descendants sued for citizenship in our tribal court. In 2006, the tribal supreme court ruled that the Cherokee constitution was not clear enough about their status — a ruling that effectively granted citizenship to about 2,800 non-Indians by court order. (Before this court order, non-Indian descendants of Cherokee freedmen had sued twice in federal court and lost, and they also lost a suit in tribal courts as recently as 2001.)
Once our court overturned its earlier decision in 2006, the Cherokee Nation then went back to its citizens, including the non-Indian freedmen descendants, to clarify the constitution. By a vote of 77%, we disagreed with the court and amended the constitution to reflect our passionate belief: We should be an Indian tribe made up of Indians.
The non-Indians have a right to appeal, and they are pursuing it. Until those appeals are exhausted, the freedmen descendants remain full citizens of the Cherokee Nation with the right to vote and use tribal services, such as our healthcare system.
Watson and others have tried to paint the Cherokee Nation’s repeated attempts to make Indian descent a citizenship requirement as discrimination against blacks. As a freedmen descendant who looks black, and who is also a by-blood citizen, I’m offended by that. There was no racial issue when the Cherokee Nation welcomed me 14 years ago. In 1993, I received my citizenship card, which affirmed my connection to the tribe by blood through my great-great-great grandfather, Daniel Tucker — just as I am connected to my freedmen lineage through his wife.
For me, the crucial question is who decides who is an Indian? Does the United States government decide? Does misinformed public opinion decide? Or do Indians decide? And the issue is not one of discrimination but of how best to preserve Indian identity.
Through my own experience, I’ve come to believe that Indian ancestry is crucial to the preservation of our identity. It is simply what makes the Cherokees an Indian nation. As a group whose nation was almost erased, we know that defining that identity is crucial to maintaining it now. Establishing who is and who isn’t a tribal citizen is the rightful function of a self-governing sovereign nation and a key to maintaining sovereignty. For virtually every tribe in the country, that means having a by-blood requirement for citizenship.
I treasure my African American roots, and I also feel fully a part of the Cherokee community. Some of my fondest memories are of participating in wonderful Cherokee traditions, and the Cherokee tribe accepts me regardless of my racial appearance. When I look at our schools, religious organizations and communities, I can see that this is the rule, not the exception. Multiracial and freedmen-descendant Cherokees like me are living proof that the nation welcomes all Cherokees equally.
But what unites us is our shared Indian ancestry. We should not be subject to false charges of racism and attack legislation when we seek to preserve and build on that shared history, enabling our children and grandchildren to keep their precious heritage alive.
Here’s my take:
Chad Smith, Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma insists that it’s just a matter of insuring that the Cherokee Nation remains an Indian Nation, when that’s not the case at all. It’s completely misleading and that should be stated loudly. Otherwise people will tend to agree that he has a point (even if his point flies in the face of a treaty).
Many of the Cherokee who voted to toss out the Freedmen have much less than 1/16 Cherokee ancestry. A considerable number of the Freedmen have more Cherokee ancestry than that fraction, some substantially more. No one disputes this, not even Chad Smith, who has led the push against the Freedmen. It’s not a matter of who has Indian ancestry and who doesn’t. It comes down essentially, if not entirely, to a struggle between Cherokee who are mainly of white ancestry and Cherokee who are mainly of African ancestry.
The battle lines are drawn amidst a morass of legalisms involving the Dawes roll. White people drew up the Dawes roll and, sometimes rather arbitrarily, decided who went on the “by-blood” section and who went on the Freedman section. Many of us have experience with how our ancestors were described by white people in the census records. This could not have been any better, especially since the people who made up the roll were pursuing a divide-and-conquer strategy. It seems a bit nonsensical to me for the Cherokee to insist on establishing pedigree by using a document that the Cherokee themselves didn’t even produce. And further, not allow for any other way to establish Cherokee ancestry.
Most of the Freedmen are descendant from people who walked the Trail of Tears. Now they’re being asked to walk it again.
Mel Currie (Dickeyville)
The other problem is this confounded blood quantum. It has caused fighting and there’s those Dawes Rolls – there a people who are obviously no-doubt Cherokee’s who are left out or their tribe because their ancestors had successfully hid from the whites during that horrible trail of tears.
The blood quantum (designed by the whites) continues today of being the instrument of keeping the nations down.
I agree, the tribal requirements should not be dicatated by a document written by genocidists.
If the native nations want to become strong then we need to all work together whether weak-blood or strong-blood with unified vision. The vision can’t rest on waiting for gov’t handouts – that is our weakness.
This topic was discussed here on this forum once before and the moderator found it necessary to delete it. If facts and only facts are adhered to a factual opinion can sometimes be attained otherwise it is a waste of time. It certainly wouldn’t be beneficial to saponitown.
Mel, what do you base the fact on that Chad Smith and the woman that wrote the article are liars? Why don’t you want to honor the sovereignty of the Cherokee Nation? And the choice of the voters? Why should the Cherokee be expected to honor one (1) treaty when you don’t expect the U.S. to honor any? Like all treaties it wasn’t fair to the Cherokee. Why should the U.S. have the right to withhold money rightfully owed to the Cherokee for stealing their land with or without a treaty? Why should the U.S. even be here on land that should belong to only Indians?
Hi Daniel, you are right about the blood-quantum. A Sovereign tribe should be able to make that choice on their own. I think that is the only way the U.S. has left to obliterate the tribes. ANY outside blood introduced into a tribe will eventually destroy the blood-quantum. Those government handouts are often money rightly owed those people and not handouts.
Any way I think that federal funds for California should be withheld until Diane Watson withdraws her terrorist threat against the sovereign Cherokee Nation.
I don’t think that the U.S. should have any influence over tribal affairs.
Personally, I believe there is duplicity on all sides of the matter. Questions of identity, inclusion and justice have been a historical theme regarding the Cherokee Nation. They are at a crossroads to define to the world what it means to be Cherokee.
Blackbird
Greywolf,
I read my previous post a couple of times and I don’t see that I used the word liar or any synonym of liar. I did say that the argumentation being used by Smith and his allies is misleading. I say that because their insistence that they simply want to keep the CNO an Indian nation implies that the people they are excluding are not of Indian ancestry. Not being on the Dawes roll does not mean that you are not of Cherokee ancestry. Some may be. Others perhaps are not.
The United States has imposed sanctions many times against nations whose conduct in their internal affairs does not suit us. We do that because they are sovereign nations and the conduct, while disturbing, doesn’t warrant an invasion. We simply withdraw our support. If the Turks summarily tried to push the Turkish Kurds out of their country and into Iraq, we would likely voice a protest and might impose sanctions. If the Cherokee were a State in the United States, we wouldn’t impose a sanction, we would tell them to stop mistreating their citizens or else.
The Cherokee can’t have it both ways. If they insist that they are not wards of the United States, then they should be treated the same way we treat any nation whose behavior we feel is out of line.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
