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Vivian Markley;38799 wrote: Oh here is a link..She is actually a Johnson and her husband is the Dyer. I do wonder if that is my brother in laws line as I think he may have Marshall. He is definitely a Coppock/ Lester…his id-A146918 *MrMagee
Here is Donna’s tree, I think it is public. If not she will give you an invite if you ask.
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/10543416/family?cfpid=-622567097
Donna gave me access to her tree.
That kit A146918 has a 1,740 SNP match to my mother on chromosome 6 between 25 and 32.
This match triangulates with another 2,193 SNP match my mother has in common with FN118186 Karl Thacker KarlT here at SaponiTown.
I have a copy of The Annals of Newberry by John Belton O’Neall 1858. There are some references to the Coppocks, Coates, Lester and Moon.
NO. 5.
The Quaker settlement was on Bush River and the Beaver-
dam. It extended from three to four miles on each side of
the river. A line drawn from the Tea Table Rock, by the
place once owned by Wm. Miles, now the property of Mathias
Barr, to Goggan’s old field, now Washington Floyd’s, would
be about the northwest limit. The settlement was prolonged
down the river to the plantation, formerly the property of
Col. Philemon Waters, now of Chancellor Johnston. No finer
body of land can be found in South Carolina, than that em-
braced within those limits.
When the settlement commenced, or whence came the great
body of settlers, it is out of my power to say with certainty.
Certain it is that Wm. Coate, before ’02 lived between
Spring Field and Bush River, and that Samuel Kelly, a
native of King’s County, Ireland, but who came to Newberry
from Camden, settled at Spring Field in ’02, John Furnas at
the same time, and adjoining, made his settlement. David
Jenkins, about the same time, or possibly a few years before,
settled on the plantation where major Peter Hare resides.
Benjamin Pearson and Wm. Pearson lived on the plantation,
once the property of John Frost, now that of Judge O’Neall,
as early as ’69. Robert Evans, who settled the place now
owned by Sampson Marchant, came also from Camden, pro-
bably between ’62 and ’69. John Wright, Jos. Wright, Wm.
Wright, James Brooks, Joseph Thomson, James Patty, Gabriel
McCoole, John Coate, (Big) Isaac Hollingsworth, Wm. O’Neall,
Walter Herbert, Sr., Daniel Parkins, Daniel Smith, Samuel
Miles, David Miles, William Miles, Samuel Brown, Israel
Gaunt, Azariah Pugh,* William Mills, Jonathan and Caleb
Gilbert, John Galbreath, James Galbroath, James Coppock,
John Coppock, Joseph Eeagin, John Roagin, Abel and James
Insco, Jesse Spray, Samuel Teague, George Pemberton, Jehu
Inman, Mercer Babb, James Steddam, John Crumpton, Isaac
Cook, John Jay, Reason Reagen, Thomas and Isaac Hasket
Thos. Pearson, the two Enoch Pearsons, Samuel Pearson
Nehemiah Thomas, Abel Thomas, Timothy Thomas, Euclydus
Longshore, Sarah Duncan, Samuel Duncan, and John Duncan,
were residents of the same tract of country before or during
the revolution, and were Friends or were ranked as such by
descent.
The Friends had three places of meeting, one, the oldest
and principal, at Bush River, where their house of worship
still stands, neglected, but not desecrated. Within the grave
yard, south of it, sleep hundreds of the early settlers of
Bush River. Often have I seen more than five hundred
Friends, women and children, there gathered together to
worship God in silence, and to listen to the outpouring of
the spirit, with which some of the Friends, male and female.
might be visited.
Another Coates/Coppock passage from the Annals of Newberry. (There is a lot on Philemon Waters and descendants in this book too.)
No 8 concluded
James Diwer lived after 1828 in the house built by Mar-
maduke Coate, until December, 1833, when he removed to
‘Charleston.
The life of this gentleman is romantic enough to gratify
the morbid taste of the present age for the wonderful, if we
had space to give it. He was an Irishman. He landed in.
New Brunswick, and there became a member of the Baptist
Church; his wanderings thence I cannot trace; he came to
Newberry District in 1819, with his bundle on a stick, and
taught a common country school until the fall of 1820. In
the summer of that year he began the study of the classics
at the Newberry Academy, and at a school near James Mc-
Morries, in Laurens, he completed his Academic education.
He entered the Junior Class of the South Carolina College,
by the bounty of the Clariosophic Society, incorporated in
December, 1822. He was in 1823 elected Treasurer of the
College, with a salary of $1400; he graduated December, 1824,
and was elected at the same time tutor of mathematics in the
South Carolina College, with a salary of $1,000. Such unex-
ampled success attending the course of a stranger indicated
rare qualities of the head and heart. Such had James
Diwer; he was one of the best mathematicians ever graduated
at the South Carolina College; he was a true Irishman,
generous and devoted. But an unfortunate habit, too much
indulged in, of using intoxicating drink, made it necessary
for him to resign. He came to Newberry, and took charge of
the Academy in 1828, (January;) he married in February,
Sophia Coppock.
MarcSnelling;38834 wrote: Donna gave me access to her tree.
That kit A146918 has a 1,740 SNP match to my mother on chromosome 6 between 25 and 32.
This match triangulates with another 2,193 SNP match my mother has in common with FN118186 Karl Thacker KarlT here at SaponiTown.
I have a copy of The Annals of Newberry by John Belton O’Neall 1858. There are some references to the Coppocks, Coates, Lester and Moon.
LOL….Mr Magee is my brother in law
Here is his tree as far as I have for now.
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/71070285/family?cfpid=48581676835
I have not done much with it as we are adding a room onto our house. Their daughter got them kits for Christmas. He is 84 so I have do it. I have more on him than this including the Thompsons. Somehow I deleted the wrong Legacy file and lost a lot of work and have to get it rebuilt but I think I could rethink it. Ends up the farm he lives on was first owned by Richard Thompson his Grandfather from Newberry. I do not know if this is the C haplo Thompson’s but I do know they were Bush River. Samuel Hoover/Mary Coate owned the farm across the road that was also a family farm and where he was raised.
Karl is also on one of the Facebook groups I am on. We should get him in on this thread.
You should be able to share a post from SaponiTown to Facebook now. I it doesn’t work in Internet Explorer try it in Firefox or Chrome.
This is the tree Nathan A Coppock Jr that ties in the Waters, Coppock, and Lester for me.
A069729 J Coppock matches my mother on a section of chromosome 19, he has a series of small matches to your brother-in-law.
Here are the one-one compares: ** Note the three-way match on chromosme 13.
Comparing Kit A069729 (*J Coppock) and M103622 (Suzanne Drybread Snelling)
Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 500 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 250 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM
[TABLE]
[TR][TD] Chr
[/TD]
[TD]Start Location
[/TD]
[TD]End Location
[/TD]
[TD]Centimorgans (cM)
[/TD]
[TD] SNPs
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: center]13
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]93,807,263
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]97,614,588
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]5.5
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]551
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: center]19
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]2,501,852
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]9,996,284
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]24.1
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]998
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Largest segment = 24.1 cM
Total of segments > 1 cM = 29.6 cM
Comparing Kit A146918 (*MrMagee) and A069729 (*J Coppock)
Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 500 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 250 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM
[TABLE]
[TR][TD] Chr
[/TD]
[TD]Start Location
[/TD]
[TD]End Location
[/TD]
[TD]Centimorgans (cM)
[/TD]
[TD] SNPs
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: center]1
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]168,916,616
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]170,270,737
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]1.2
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]518
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: center]2
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]203,461,317
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]206,151,283
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]2.5
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]558
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: center]4
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]114,971,099
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]118,500,818
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]2.3
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]510
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: center]5
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]110,596,828
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]113,461,446
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]2.4
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]693
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: center]7
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]93,178,516
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]95,021,309
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]1.9
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]588
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: center]8
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]49,376,463
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]53,112,110
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]2.3
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]546
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: center]10
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]73,539,669
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]77,724,408
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]2.6
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]633
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: center]13
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]94,408,828
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]95,847,101
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]1.6
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]698
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: center]14
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]34,039,184
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]37,268,283
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]3.5
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]657
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: center]15
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]38,426,862
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]41,828,257
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]1.3
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]638
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Largest segment = 3.5 cM
Total of segments > 1 cM = 21.6 cM
Comparing Kit M103622 (Suzanne Drybread Snelling) and A146918 (*MrMagee)
Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 500 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 250 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM
[TABLE]
[TR][TD] Chr
[/TD]
[TD]Start Location
[/TD]
[TD]End Location
[/TD]
[TD]Centimorgans (cM)
[/TD]
[TD] SNPs
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: center]6
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]25,520,966
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]32,000,463
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]2.0
[/TD]
[TD=align: center]1,740
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Largest segment = 2.0 cM
Total of segments > 1 cM = 2.0 cM
Did someone say Karl Thacker……..
Hello! Vivian dropped me a message last night that I had been connected within a triangulation.
Just to throw out my story in case it triggers anything for those already here.
My Thacker line ‘appears’ in late 1700s Louisa, Virginia, mixed with the Branham and Gibson. About 1835 my Thacker moved to what would become Vinton County, Ohio, along with various Branham, Dalton, Napper, etc., all around the same time. My line moved onto Illinois, then Missouri and Iowa. However…. In 2015 I discovered my YDNA is not Thacker. Eventually it was narrowed to Swift of Flower Swift Militia fame, along with a close connection to a William Sanders, d 1803, Tennessee. My assumption was that events took place back in Louisa around the War of Regulation, War of Independence, etc. Nope…
With the aid of Ancestry DNA, early this year I was able to determine that my grandfather, Wilmer Thacker, b 1911, Knox County, Missouri, was not fathered by (a) Thacker. There are clear as day gaps between the offspring of my grandfather vs the offspring of two of his sisters. We not only have less share DNA than we should, but entire lines of families are either present or missing from one side or the other. Also, the offspring of the sisters tie to other modern day Vinton County Thacker, while I do not. So, I have yet to figure out my Swift line from there.
I can tell you that Ancestry DNA notified me of a connection to a (William) Landrine Eggers, 1747. Landrine was married to Joanna Greene, 1759, and one of their daughters was Lydia. And Lydia married…… A James Swift. So, my assumption is that I link to Landrine through the offspring of his daughter and James Swift.
Let me throw another giant wrench into the works….. All of the above ties to the Swift of Flower Swift Militia Company are my direct PATERNAL line. Well, while researching the maternal line of my late grandmother, Colista Irene Elliott, I Googled one of the names. And what site pops up? Bios of members of the Flower Swift Militia Company….. No joke. Members of my Elliott, Ruddock/Reddick, and Pendry/Pendroy/Pendrie direct maternal lines were all members of the Flower Swift Militia Company alongside members of my true paternal line. The Ruddock/Reddick and Pendry/Pendroy/Pendrie members of the company feed to my grandmother’s Elliott line. My grandfather’s Hensley also come out of Virginia, but having a bit of trouble sorting them out as well.
I won’t of much use or input today until later this evening.
Ancestry DNA and tree: Karl Thacker (tree: ThackerHensley)
GEDMatch: T697694 (was NF118186)
YSEARCH & mtDNASearch: 7ZQAU
Karl
Sure killed this thread.
I will mention- I have tons of Quakers. Elliott… Beeson… Chapman… Dimmitt… Grubb… Vane… And some are turning out to be rather significant, including the Vane being of both The Elder, and The Younger, Henry Vane.
Karl
KarlT;38899 wrote: Sure killed this thread.
Not dead, just a lot to process…
In terms of common surnames I’m not seeing it yet. There are a lot of mixed names but not common ones.
As far as the admixture goes I went back and took another look at this section of my mother’s chromosome map this weekend. At Scott Collins’ DNA project I asked for GedMatch numbers of participants. Two of the people I ran there also match on the first quarter of chromosome 6.
Having these people from SaponiTown.com and the Saponi DNA Project who all match in this section I went back and looked at the admixture chromosome maps at GedMatch.
On MDLP-K13 there are majority Amerindian sections in chromosome 6, and also in Eurogenes-K13. There are also more matches to Clovis Anzick and Kennewick archaic samples on this chromosome.
Anna Chan on Facebook is also an Elliott, also Quaker.
When I drop the thresholds on chromosome 6 a bunch of matches show up.
You match Anna M269578 on a 4.3cM section of chromosome 6 from 38M to 41M. You match Vivian on a 3.1cM segment from 44M to 45M, my mother on a 5.0cM segment from 23M to 32M.
You could argue at these thresholds lots of matches show up. Maybe so. But there are larger matches too. When you add the two Saponi DNA Project samples into the mix Barbara A026570 and Carl A284331. Vivian matches Carl A284331 on a 22cM segment of chromosome 7. My mother matches Barbara A026570 on a 14.5 segment of the X chromosome. So it isn’t just chance small segments.
Running the MDLP calculator you can see the red section that MDLP estimates as Amerindian 1.5%.
And here in the chromosome map you can see the most noticeable red section is on chromosome 6.
When you break down estimate by chromosome, 6 has the highest percentage – 3.4%.
I would never have found you, Vivian, Anna, Barbara, or Carl if it was not for SaponiTown, Saponi United, and the Saponi DNA Project. Biwa to Linda Carter, Dale Yeagley, and Scott Collins for maintaining those groups!
I am still here also but I pulled a big disaster. I somehow deleted the Legacy file that had my latest research in it and an still rebuilding it. I had to go back to my last save on the cloud and am working from there. I think the small segments are showing the matches that we have at a more distant time while the long ones are recombination. I know I have these three that have a high probability of recombining into large segments through multiple instances of Quaker and Robinson. Then Joseph Stewart Jr married Martha Coppock daughter of James Coppock and Hannah Pugh son of Moses and Mary Lester.
The Long Hair Clan, whose subdivisions are Twister, Wind and Strangers, are known to be a very peaceful clan. In the times of the Peace Chief and War Chief government, the Peace Chief would come from this clan. Prisoners of war, orphans of other tribes, and others with no Cherokee tribe were often adopted into this clan, thus the name ‘Strangers.’ At some Cherokee ceremonial grounds, the Long Hair arbor is on the East side, and also houses the Chiefs and other leaders of the ground.
Then I have John Vaughn who took a native American wife and had three sons Absolum, William Shields associated with Weyankoke and my Samuel who married Sarah Poindexter. William Shields Vaughn joined the Quaker church and attended the Weynoke/Weyanoke MM at Charles City Va so this put his father 1596-1660 in Powhattan territory and would indicate that his wife and mother of his three identified children is of the Powhattan confederacy not Cherokee as reported on line.
John Bunch (I am writing a book on him) took an Indian wife and once his indenture was fulfilled had land on the Richahock path in Lancaster Va which I think might become known as the Indian Path but just started looking for proof of that yesterday. His land deeds are in Library of Virginia. Two sons John Jr and Paul who moves down into Chowan NC just before his death and his descendants have a Bible record of the marriage of John Basse and daughter of Nansemond chief. Once again John Bunch had to have married a Powhattan confederation gal. John married Mary Temperance Bates Quaker and daughter of George Bates, Quaker merchant (my Blevins line through sister Ann Bunch) this group are found together in the Cedar Creek MM.
So as I was looking at John Basse and Nansemond I ran into Coppage and I think that Coppage and Coppock have mixed at times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nansemond
I found this list of Chuckatuck and Nansemond Quakers that need researched. Does anyone have any of these? Chuckatuck Quakers
Research Christopher Story
Research Scott..Nansemond
Research Daniel Stamper
Research John Taylor
Research Blackbee Terrill
Research Thomas Vaun
Research Martha Vaughan
Research Walter/Mary Waters
Research John Watts
Research Wilkeson
Research John Mary Wright
I thought I would just share this. We had my granddaughter Rosie’s atdna done as she is an adopted Chinese. Her admix came up with Native American on Gedmatch so I am thinking that the land bridge theory or a ocean migration from the far east in ancient time is a strong possibility. I did her Clovis and she matches most of us at some points. LOL She is only 8 years old and showed no European varieties of atdna so the chances of her having some ancestor of American ancestry would be so slim to find an American with no European and have larger Native American atdna.
MarcSnelling;38901 wrote: You could argue at these thresholds lots of matches show up. Maybe so. But there are larger matches too. When you adding the two Saponi DNA Project samples into the mix Barbara A026570 and Carl A284331. Vivian matches Carl A284331 on a 22cM segment of chromosome 7. My mother matches Barbara A026570 on a 14.5 segment of the X chromosome. So it isn’t just chance small segments.
Running the MDLP calculator you can see the red section that MDLP estimates as Amerindian 1.5%.
And here in the chromosome map you can see the most noticeable red section is on chromosome 6.
When you break down estimate by chromosome, 5 has the highest percentage – 3.4%.
I would never have found you, Vivian, Anna, Barbara, or Carl if it was not for SaponiTown, Saponi United, and the Saponi DNA Project. Biwa to Linda Carter, Dale Yeagley, and Scott Collins for maintaining those groups!
I put both of these in my new Genomemate Pro (I ungraded but the transfer of data is a little messy and takes time so now I am just adding one by one. I just entered a new Bunch/Bates gal with her Clovis match and not her match to me and she is showing up in both of your Clovis matches but I have not seen a match yet of the three of you on the sames segment. She is also a Plummer so is a Wells. I ran her to both of you at 500/2
Her gedcom is on Gedmatch so you can check out if you find any paper trail that could apply to you. Just loads of matchs on all segments and there really seems to be a strong Nansemond/Lancaster Va location matching.
Comparing Kit A985705 (*DD-Patricia KW) and A284331 (Carl Nichols)
Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 500 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 250 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 2.0 cM
Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
1 5,548,681 7,285,897 3.4 502
2 211,419,797 213,619,287 2.8 588
4 128,561,570 131,688,136 2.3 577
6 52,933,885 64,528,028 5.0 1,411
10 109,138,760 112,382,152 2.9 735
11 121,537,118 123,457,913 4.7 635
14 78,260,667 80,898,925 2.6 606
16 25,943,230 27,745,273 4.1 570
20 49,455,556 51,364,361 3.3 590
Largest segment = 5.0 cM
Total of segments > 2 cM = 31.3 cM
9 matching segments
Comparing Kit A985705 (*DD-Patricia KW) and A026570 (Barbara Loye Burgos)
Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 500 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 250 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 2.0 cM
Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
1 109,158,979 110,923,345 2.7 529
4 106,050,599 109,008,129 2.4 509
6 125,840,174 129,661,103 2.5 526
9 25,679,954 27,326,207 2.6 548
12 53,697,983 56,265,007 2.3 514
15 40,852,064 44,449,813 2.2 579
17 58,965,155 61,602,651 2.3 529
19 8,305,272 11,083,482 6.9 638
Largest segment = 6.9 cM
Total of segments > 2 cM = 23.9 cM
8 matching segments
Vivian Markley;38903 wrote:
The Long Hair Clan, whose subdivisions are Twister, Wind and Strangers, are known to be a very peaceful clan. In the times of the Peace Chief and War Chief government, the Peace Chief would come from this clan. Prisoners of war, orphans of other tribes, and others with no Cherokee tribe were often adopted into this clan, thus the name ‘Strangers.’ At some Cherokee ceremonial grounds, the Long Hair arbor is on the East side, and also houses the Chiefs and other leaders of the ground.
The Long Hair Clan seems to be the logical place for any Quaker-Siouan descendants who merged with the Cherokee. This has come up in my research as well.
One thing to note with my mother’s matches on this part of chromosome 6… the SNP count is high compared to the cM. Most of the matches are 7-9cM, but the SNP counts are in the thousands.
Vivian Markley;38903 wrote:
John Bunch (I am writing a book on him)
That sounds very interesting! Is there an ETA?
It is interesting what you are saying about Quaker meeting records and mixed families.
This past weekend I was in Toronto for the Ontario Genealogical Society conference. The Canadian Friends Historical Society was there. They are currently focused on helping a transcription of Genesee New York Yearly Meeting records with an eye to First Nations detail recorded at that time. T
he Canadian Friends Service Committee is focused on right relations with First Nations, and the Truth and Reconciliation Committee.
Here, Ottawa Monthly Meeting members continue to speak of the vision of the late Kitigan-Zibi Anishinabeg Chief Wiliam Commanda. His vision for Asinabka – a National Indigenous Center – a circle of all nations in a culture of peace. The land for this is a small island in the Kitchissippi near a sacred waterfall – called Chaudiere Falls today. The island sits right below the Supreme Court and Parliament buildings.
I’m grateful our Quaker ancestors recorded so much info that allows us to find them. And that in today’s imperfect world there are still Friends actively working to preserve our shared culture.
Here is a screen shot of the matches at that Segment. So many people do not look at the # of SNP and my logic tells me that having a saturated small segement like that carries more information and genetic material than a long segment with fewer SNPs. That is why when I put them into Genomemate I do down to 1 cM as the database can handle that amount of matching very easily since she changed to SQL so I switched to Pro version for that reason. You will see some clues as to who I have their NA ancestor to be and I hope all the id’s are there so you can copy them.
Rosie is my Granddaughter who is Chinese and Steve Markley is my husband who is a Watts/Jeffries. Caleb is my natural grandson,
This segment includes almost all prominent known NA groups for this location and comes up into Ohio with Bluejacket descendants. I am thinking a large group like this is the earlier tribal connections and then if they are divided into the smaller groups which I have done on few segments but none of this magnitude,we should start to see a map of families/tribe and locations. The closer to recent times, the smaller the groups but they should then form a spider web that would help define our histories as they should be. Hoping this will work, I have not done this before
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