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Bill,
Where are you getting all of this information? You are finding it faster than I can type it. 😀 Take that as a compliment because I type about 70 wpm.
James William Day was born 1 FEB 1911 to Mona/morning Napier in Harlan County Ky. I know that much. I have his SS-5, a copy of his birth listed on the Harlan County website, and he is my biological grandfather.
I think I have the most trouble wrapping my mind around the fact that people would pass down stories of Indian heritage for so many generations. I would think that after a while the story would just fade away.
Three or four more generations and Native Americans still with English names…wow. They didn’t teach that in U.S. History.
Hey Bill! You think all of these surnames are related….you should the surnames just keep repeating themselves through both my mothers and my fathers lines. 😀 LOL I was talking to a friend of mine about having the DNA test and how it could show your ethnic origins. I told her…whatever my ethnic origins were I was darn near 100 percent and when they sent the migration map it would have one big dot right in the middle of the united states. LOL
This also accounts for most of my confusion and the trouble that I am having keeping the two lines separate. Hopefully my genealogy software won’t blow up. lol
Egertons book says that a Leander Ledford was a cousin to Burnam Ledford and that Leander Ledford and Nathan Noe had land in Garrard County Kentucky. The book says that Burnam moved to Garrard County around 1889. The land was around the Paint Lick neighbhorhood.
I can’t seem to find any census information for that area and time.
Sherry
To trace them back, you have to start with the immediate, “what do you know for sure” and move backwards in time from there, generation to generation. Ignore the “stories” or you allow yourself to be propogandized to accept whatever “cover story” has been operative in your family. Everyone’s family story is “polished” to shine the best. If you “search” ‘ed this forum for “Black Dutch” and “Black Irish”, your harddrive might turn into the fourth of July fireworks at the Drive-In before it went into melt-down.
If you don’t share “what you know for sure”, it’s unlikely anyone else will be able to “get it right” without accidentally stumbling over “it”. If you want to impart sensitive information in a private email, do it with the understanding it will not be shared with the world. Our main point is to identify our ancestors’ descendants within factual contexts in order to identify even earlier ancestors. If you know who your Mother’s Mother’s Mother was, you are honored here and well on the way. If you don’t know who she was, this is probably the place to find out.
🙂
I do type faster than 70, but the only advantage is that I’m subscribed to more databases than you may have subscribed to, have a room-full of genealogy books and more time to look.
Sherry,
There are naturally, two Mourning Napier’s.
One is Mourning/Morning (unkn maiden name – maybe NOE, m’d Robert Napier, b.abt.1819 Ky), who was the mother of the Mary Jane Napier who m’d Leander Ledford.
The second Mourning/Morning:
Mary Jane Napier’s brother John Napier, b.abt. 1856/58, and his wife Louisa _?_ , b.abt.1855, had a dau Morning/Mourning Napier, b.abt. 1877, which is very close to the year of birth of Mary Jane’s dau Morning/Mourning, b. Dec 1878 (per 1900 census). This could cause some confusion.
On all census records, Morning/Mourning Ledford Day, after she marr’d Ed Day, is always shown as a DAY. I don’t know if she used Napier on any other records, could be. Could also have been records of your Mourning’s first cousin.
Green Napier, b.abt.1842/3, was Mary Jane Napier’s older brother.
There are also a Green Williams and a Green Day living in Harlan Co., all at the same time. I think all of them are related to the Ledfords – and obviously to GREENs.
William Day, b.abt. 1911, Ky, is the son of Ed/Edmon H. Day and Morning Ledford Day on the 1920 and 1930 census. No “James” Day born anywhere near this year (nor William Day), so I think this is your James Will Day, b. 1911, who m’d Bertha Williams.
All attempts to find William (Bill) Williams other than in 1880 and 1930 have been unsuccessful, so far. Haven’t turned up Liddy Bell Turner Williams except on 1930 Census which I posted earlier.
So, I’m assuming Bell was born after the 1880 census was taken and that she was m’d to Bill before the 1900 census was taken.
Their marriage would then have been in late 1899 or early 1900 and that would have to be looked at to have any hope of identifying her parents except by inference – there are a couple of Turners there in 1880 which were there as early as 1810, at least.
My concern is that Bill was moving around, met Bell somewhere else, finally moving back to Harlan Co. in the 1920s. Don’t know,
but none of their children show up in Ky in 1910 or 1920.
More later,
Bill
I haven’t been able to find anything “new” on my lines lately, so I thought I would take a break and look up something else. I am not sure about the 1900 census, but the dates seemed to “fit”.
Good luck,
Stacey
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1900:
Magisterial District 2, Hardin County, Kentucky; ED# 43; sheet 4A; visit 66
Williams, William, Oct 1878 (or 1879?), 20 (21 is marked out and 20 is above it), marriage#1 – 0 years, KY, KY, KY, farmer
—– Almira, April 1880, 20, marriage#1 – 0 years, 0 children, KY, KY, KY, none
1910:
War Creek Twp., Breathitt County, Kentucky; ED# 15; sheet 10B; visit 173
Coomer, Riley, 28, marriage#1 – 8 years, KY, KY, KY, laborer
—– Annie, 25, marriage#1 – 8 years, KY, KY, KY
Williams, Wm, 31, marriage#1 – 9 years, KY, KY, KY, farmer
—– Belle, 29, marriage#1 – 9 years, 4 children, KY, KY, KY
—– Albert, 7, KY, KY, KY
—– Elbert, 6, KY, KY, KY
—– James, 3, KY, KY, KY
—– Gracie, 5/12, KY, KY, KY
1920:
Cary Twp., Bell County, Kentucky, ED# 9; sheet 3A; visit 57
Williams, Williams, 41, married, KY, KY, KY, farmer
—– Belle, 38, married, KY, KY, KY, none
—– Albert, 17, single, KY, KY, KY, farm laborer
—– Elbert, 15, single, attended school, KY, KY, KY, farm laborer
—– James, 13, single, attended school,KY, KY, KY, none
—– Gracie, 10, single, attended school, KY, KY, KY, none
—– Lawrence, 5, single, attended school, KY, KY, KY, none
—– Bertha, 3 10/12, single, KY, KY, KY, none
Stacey,
You just hit it out of the park!! Good Work!
That is them, proven by the ages of William and Belle and the names and ages of the children James, Lawrence and Bertha.
Elbert Williams lived a few houses away from Mourning Day on the 1930 Harlan Census and I just knew he was one of Wm & Bell Williams’ kids – just didnt’ find the earlier census! You do GOOD work!
Bill
Thank you guys so much for all of your hard work.
I understand who William is but who is Almira? How does that fit here?
Also, let me get this straight…Mourning d/0 Mary Jane Napier
Also Mourning Napier d/o John Napier?
I may have the wrong mourning in my records if this is correct.
I had always heard a story about Mourning being a twin but …does a birth record exist for John Napiers mourning? because Mourning/mona Napier Day was born sept. 8, 1878. Couldn’t these individuals be one in the same? If John Napier did indeed have a daughter named mourning also then I “think” I have his mourning in my records and not my Mourning.
Ohh I am so confused
Sherry:confused:
Both Mourning Napier and Mourning Ledford appear on the 1880 Harlan census with their respective families.
Pg. 519A, visit 382:
NAPER, John, 22, farmer, Ky (Mary Jane Napier’s brother)
………., Louise, 25, wife, Ky
………., Green, 5, son, Ky.
………., MORNING, 3, dau, Ky.*******
………., Sarah, 1, dau, Ky
Pg. 521C, visit 413:
LEDFORD, Leander, 35, farmer, Ky
……………, Jane, 32, wife, Ky (Mary Jane, nee: Napier)
……………, Daniel, 12, son, Ky
……………, Milard, 9, son, Ky
……………, Aly, 7, son, Ky
……………, Robert, 5, son, Ky
……………, MORNING, 1, dau, Ky*******
The 1900 census listing for Wm & Almira Williams may not be yours. Their ages are too close to be ignored and they’re in the “right” county, but they weren’t marr’d until about the next year (in 1901), per the 1910 census and yes, this could be INexact and yes, “Almira” could be Belle. I don’t know yet.
Wow…that is incredible. I would like to know why this name was so important (or so it seems).
I looked up the origin and meaning of the name Almira and the only two sources that popped up was Arabic and Spanish.
I sent my DNA test off today and will post the Haplogroup and the migration route to this site as soon as I get the results.
Sherry
Well, I doubt the origin of the name Almira would help us much. In the 1880s (and since), there was an explosion of parents using “unique”, “exotic” names for their children – so much so in some parts of the country that the previous naming conventions within families brokedown and children’s names couldn’t be counted on to provide clues to their familys’ earlier surname relationships.
One of the Morning cousins married Forest Christian and had three children. Question of the day, did ED and Mourning Ledford split and then mourning married Forest Christian or did Mourning Napier marry Forest Christian or was it actually Mourning Napier who married Edmond and I “assumed” she was using her mothers maiden name?
Hey! Everyone working on this line…I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you.
Bill,
Hope you can make sense of this. This is what I have so far.
Sherry
Descendants of David Noe
Generation No. 1
1. David1 Noe He married Morning Harris.
Child of David Noe and Morning Harris is:
+ 2 i. Mourning2 Noe.
Generation No. 2
2. Mourning2 Noe (David1) She married Robert Napier. He was born Abt. 1820 in Harlan Co, KY.
Children of Mourning Noe and Robert Napier are:
+ 3 i. John3 Napier, born Abt. 1858.
+ 4 ii. Mary Jane Napier, born Abt. 1848 in Harlan Co, KY; died 07 Sep 1941 in Madison County, KY.
5 iii. Ewell Venable Napier, born Abt. 1840 in Harlan Co, KY. He married Sarah Blanton 04 Apr 1861 in Harlan county, KY; born Abt. 1844 in Harlan Co, KY.
6 iv. Mastin Green Napier, born Abt. 1842 in Harlan Co, KY. He married Martha Ann Spurlock Abt. 1863.
7 v. Fullingheson Napier, born Abt. 1844 in Harlan Co, KY.
8 vi. Benjamin Napier, born Abt. 1846.
9 vii. Nathan Napier, born Abt. 1851; died in Harlan Co, KY. He married Rhoda Howard 05 Apr 1872; born Aug 1856 in Harlan Co, KY.
10 viii. Elvira Napier.
11 ix. Isaac Napier.
12 x. Elizabeth Napier Napier, born 27 Apr 1853 in Martins Fork Harlan Co; died 13 Sep 1853 in Martins Fork.
Generation No. 3
3. John3 Napier (Mourning2 Noe, David1) was born Abt. 1858. He married Louise.
Children of John Napier and Louise are:
+ 13 i. Mourning4 Napier, born Dec 1877.
14 ii. Green Napier, born Abt. 1875 in Ky.
15 iii. Sara Napier, born Abt. 1879.
4. Mary Jane3 Napier (Mourning2 Noe, David1) was born Abt. 1848 in Harlan Co, KY, and died 07 Sep 1941 in Madison County, KY. She married Leander Ledford. He was born Abt. 1845, and died 16 Mar 1923 in Garrard County, Ky.
Children of Mary Napier and Leander Ledford are:
16 i. Daniel4 Ledford, born Abt. 1868.
17 ii. Milard Ledford, born Abt. 1871.
18 iii. Aly Ledford, born Abt. 1873.
19 iv. Robert Ledford, born Abt. 1875.
20 v. Morning Ledford, born 08 Sep 1878 in Harlan Co, KY.
Generation No. 4
13. Mourning4 Napier (John3, Mourning2 Noe, David1) was born Dec 1877. She married Edmon Day, son of Baity Day and Sarah. He was born 29 Mar 1871, and died 22 Mar 1927 in Harlan Co, KY.
Children of Mourning Napier and Edmon Day are:
21 i. James Will5 Day, born 01 Feb 1911 in Cranks Creek, KY; died Jan 1984 in Dayhoit, KY. He married Bertha Williams; born 10 Mar 1916 in Pineville, KY; died Apr 1986 in Wallins Creek, KY.
22 ii. Viola Day, born Dec 1893; died Apr 1913.
23 iii. Bertha Day, born Dec 1894; died 15 Apr 1976.
24 iv. Eliza Day, born Oct 1896.
25 v. Noble Day, born 1898; died May 1911.
26 vi. Green Day, died May 1913.
27 vii. Ewell Day, died 24 Jun 1923.
28 viii. Minty Day, died 01 Jun 1976.
29 ix. Hiram Day.
30 x. Mary B Day, born 16 Feb 1913.
31 xi. Rebecca Day, born 1915.
32 xii. Dora Day, born 1918.
per the 1830 Harlan Co. census, pg.113, David NOE was born in the 1760s, since he was 60 to 69 yrs old in 1830. Mourning Noe is shown as the head of household in 1840 from which I presume that David died during the 1830s.
Mourning Harris NOE was born about 1780 Va., per the 1850 census when she was living with her son Nathan Noe, b.abt. 1825 Ky, and his wife Cyrena, b.abt.1827 Ky (their children in 1850 were: Benjamin, b.abt. 1847, and Lewis F., b.abt. 1849.)
In 1870 she was 90, b.Va., and living with Robert Napier, 52, b.Va, his wife Mouring Noe Napier, 48, b.Ky and their kids.
Robert Napier is generally shown as b.abt. 1819 on most census.
Per the 1870 Harlan census, Robert and Mourning Napier had additional children not on your list: “Mintie” (prob. Arminta), b.abt. 1864; and Emily, b.abt.1867.
Robert & Mourning Napier’s son Nathan, b. Dec 1851, and his wife Rodey (Rhoda), b.Aug 1856, ALSO named a dau Morning/ Mourning, b. Oct 1891. 🙂
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