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Cheryl, Good luck at the DAR Library. Many times I sat on the steps that lead to the Library entrance at 1776 D Street and ate my lunch – in the early 1970’s. It was a shady and lovely place, but I understand from friends, it is very different now. It is so thought-provoking to me that so many of us have walked the same paths, only seperated by time.
Remember, some of their records are not correct, as with all records. Sometimes there are mistakes, we are not perfect – we just want to be. For instance, I just saw the latest of their updates on their Patriots and they said again that Valentine Maddox died in Knox County, KY. I suspect a descendant wants it that way. He didn’t died there and not at the date they said. He left and went to Daviess/Ohio Cos, KY and is in the Panther Creek Baptist Church records in 1824. Possibly, someone does not want him associated with Baptist and Churchill Maddox who were in Daviess/Ohio Cos. at the same time Valentine was there. Baptist and Churchill probably were his sons by another marriage. It is thought, perhaps, by a Native American woman. Baptist and Churchill migrated with other sons of Valentine (from his first marrige to Polly Shrewsbury) up into Indiana, after the death of “old Valentine Maddox”. Jeanne
Cheryl,
What is the “White Top Band” of Virginia? Where is it located?
I have copy of Guion/Miller Roll plus and it has both accepted and rejected Cherokee, plus miller roll #. If you have a specific Sizemore in moid please gie the the given name and I can get you a Miller Roll number and their home state.
There are no accepted Sizemores, but tehre are about 250 on the rejected rolls. They are in Kansas, West Virginia, Alabama, Virginia, Washington, Tennessee, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Georgia, and Kentucky. Seems like more in W Va than any other state, but Alabama is a close second. NC, Va and Tn coming in 3,4 and 5 and the rest even fewer. Only one lists Kansas. Interesting there are no applications surnamed Sizemore in Arkansas or Missouri, where many rejected Cherokee were from.
None are listed north of the Ohio River (except for one individual in Washington State).
Jeanne,
You mentioned Gibson County, In, and Shawnee nearby. That is interesting. Do you know where that is documented? Dad (1915-1992) had an Uncle “Swaney” Richey and our Richey’s were in Gibson County, Indiana from about 1800-1810 until 1844 when they moved to Powhatan, Arknasas.
vance
jeanne and Cheryl —
I have 2 ancestors who I have been told were in the Rev War, and there might have been more. But the 2 I know of were Nevil Wayland Sr. who I was told was on the “Indian Frontier” as a “wagoner” in South Carolina. It is also said that he was a “cooper” and a blacksmith. The other was Joseph Woods who was last furlowed from Fort Pitt, North of the Ohio. How can I find out more details of them? It was 2 of Joseph’s son’s, James and John that married the two Dickson girls, Nancy and Polly.
Where would a person go to look for documentation of their Rev War records?
Thanks
Vance
Vance:
Go to the DAR web site. They will do free lookups. It takes a couple of days, but they looked up several of my Rev. War ancestors.
Stacey also subscribes to Heritage-something database with Rev War pension requests. She looked up a few records for me. One record that she looked up seemed to hint that my Butt ancestors might have been Monacan. One of the Butts who fought in the Rev. was “held with the Mocans” in the Shawnee towns in Ohio. He never returned.
Another pension application record gave me what I consider to be proof of a link between my PA people and WVA people when it said that the Rickets, who marry my Sinkeys, came north to PA from the general area of my Greens in WVA, which is the same area of the Butts.
Techteach
Vance, I have no documentation that there were Shawnee in Evansville in the 1920’s. Daddy said they were there. He would know this because that is when he would take very long walks with his grandfather, John Becker, whose mother was Elizabeth McGray, Cherokee. Dad talked about things that happened on these walks. Much of the time they ended up at the grave of John’s wife. They picked wildflowers on these walks that they placed on her grave. Dad said John (Grandpa Becker) about walked his little legs off.
Also, no documentation on this either: In Spencer County, above Rockport, there lived relation of Elizabeth McGray. They were Cherokee. From a niece of John Becker (Dad’s grandfather) I was told about how she and her family would visit. She only remembered the pet foxes and all the flies on the screen door. This was a place near Chrisney, IN. I am only relating these things so that this information may be of use to someone.
I do doubt that you will ever find it written that there were a lot of Shawnee on the streets of Evansville in the 1920’s, I dare say. Dad said they didn’t live there, they were passing through. (Lost souls.) Jeanne
Thanks Cindy —
I did a search for “DAR” and the website came up at
http://www.dar.org/default.cfm.
I sent emails asking them about both men — Joseph wood/Woods and Nevil Wayland, Sr. Thanks.
Jeanne,
Recently I saw somewhere about some Cherokee migrating to S Indiana in the 1830s — I need to find that again. My relatives went to S In @ 1800-1810 and my direct line left there 1844 for Arkansas.
Shawnee did pass through Indiana, that is where Prophet Town was located. I believe it was destroyed about the same time the Creek Red Sticks were, @ 1810-1815 or thereabout. Most cntinued on to Mo, Ks, Ok and some even went to Tx., and were living with the Tx Cherokee, Kickapoo, Delaware, Caddo and others in NE Tx., but I don’t know when the Shawnee left Indiana.
Perhaps some stayed behind. That is intresting, thanks.
Vance
Vance,
If you would like I’ll make copies of whatever you need from the DAR library and send it. I had an ancestor on my father’s side at Ft Pitt. The DAR library has a FT Pitt Day Book (really big oversized journal of accounts) that has entries for fabric, needles, and thread purchased from my ancestor’s general store a few miles away. Another account – Colonel Bouquet’s Papers in a SC library – has letters that show this same ancestor borrowed and couldn’t pay back flour from the Ft Pitt stores. I’ll have three days in the DAR library and another day somewhere else – probably the library of congress. My mother and I are making our list. We used to live up that way and actually each did hundreds of hours of indexing for the DAR library. They have many many unindexed (still) and unpublished sources. We earned bookworm pins for our efforts. Cheryl
Vance,
White Top is in Grayson Co, VA. My parents have been out there to a reunion and the land is in the foothills and is beautiful. Some of the families from that area are Baldwin, Kilby, Stringer. Specifically, Reuben Kilby m. Anne Jones died there in the late 1800’s. Joseph Baldwin died there in 1818-1820. He married Catherine Hart and both apparently came from Ashe Co, NC. She died there in 1865. The next generation was born in Ashe Co, NC and died in Grayson Co – William D. Baldwin (d. 1898) and Margaret (Peggy) Stringer (d. 1901). It’s close to Ashe CO.- I haven’t loked at the maps lately to see if they moved or if the boundaries moved. There is a William D. Baldwin cemetary in White Top which today is a very small place.
I have several generations of families including the above who lived in Ashe Co, Grayson Co, and Wilkes Co. It almost looks as if they really didn’t move much, but maybe the boundaries of the counties did.
Vance,
As to your question of “what” is the White Top Band; I’m not really sure except that I’ve heard they were all Ned Sizemore descendants living on Cherokee hunting reserve property.
Cheryl
Vance,
The specific Sizemore who seems to be at the root of it all is Edward “Old Ned” Sizemore born prior to 1725 and died 1780 (probably hung as a Tory), married about 1742 to Elixabeth Jackson. His son, George Edward who married Anne Elizabeth Hart is my ancestor.
Cheryl
Jeanne,
Many of the old DAR applications are incorrect and most are now marked as such. My family has a family history book there and it has a bit too much legend. We have proven it wrong several times. I think any large source of genealogy information will have some incorrect and/or poorly documented sources. Actually, I have an SAR application from the turn of the century that I hoped would give me information for a DAR supplemental membership application. It turns out the person who applied to the SAR, and got in, used the first five listings under my ancestors’ name in the Massachusetts Soldiers and Sailors book (one of the books that has been used to replace primarily records that are no longer in existance). I have found that the first five entries under that name are for at least three people. I am still missing two bits of data beforr I can send the corrected information to the SAR and submit the supplemental DAR application. He’s not already in the DAR Patriot Directory or wasn’t last I checked.
I go to the Faragot No. (spelling) Metro stop so I can walk through the elipse, by the National Christmas tree. Although there are protestors and tourists as you pass the White House, it is a nice walk. They have placed a park walking path right across the street from the library side of the DAR building and there are several park benches in that area. I didn’t go there the first time until the early 1980’s.
Cheryl
Cheryl,
Stop by the Wisconsin room (hidden in a convoluted spot) or check out the postcard. My brother-in-law made the pioneer clothing in the exhibit.
Techteach
PS: Any idea how/if the DAR recognizes Rev War scouts as Indian?
Cheryl,
Only Sizemores alive about 1900 might have signed up for Dawes or Miller-Guion Rolls. I’d behappy to look up Miller Roll numbers for an one who you think might have been alive at that tme.
I had to look up Grayson County, Va on a map. So many pockes of Indians of mixed heritage seem to exist isolated on ridges and valleys throughout that part of the Appalachians.
I am beginning to get a bigger picture.
Are there other well known and documented isolated pockets of mixed-bloods in this area?
Vance
We got home tonight from our research trip to DC. I did not see the last two replies in this thread before I left so I didn’t go by the Wisconsin room – darn, I would have liked to have seen the costumes. Each time we went in and out of the building there were groups of tourists around nd about. There are always DAR members there volunteering as Docents who give tours. We were having charming lunch in the Corcoran Gallery Cafe during the evacuation of the White House and the Capital due to the lost airplane. We didn’t even know it had happened until we heard the evening news. Early that morning however, we were directed to walk half a block through the grass instead of on the path through the park to get past the White House toward the DAR building (at 1776 D Street). Maybe that was when they were closing off the neighborhood to get the President out to Maryland for his morning bike ride (they said on the news he had gone there).
Vance,
Over 70 people have joined the DAR under patriot Joseph Woods. Of these 14 were through his son James and none were through son John. I saw the name Nancy Dickson and remembered determined that this Joseph Woods must be the corect one. I got a copy ($10) of the most recent aplication through James, but afterward wondered if I should have. You might not get much out of it. The lines goes from Joseph to son James to daughter Jane to son Charles Midian Day, etc. Usually the point in getting a copy of an application is for the dates, places, list of children, and documents of proof. This application wasn’t the best choice for proofs because the applicant refered to someone else’s application for proof (she must not be a researcher). So if you want, I’ll pay for this one and you can pay for another one – the one refered to on the application.
I found a book about the First VA Regiment of Foot that lists Joseph in a list of soldiers who did not die in the effort – I copied it, but I didn’t look through the three pages of name after name after name to locate Joseph. I copied, from the same book, a paragraph on Joseph that details his exploits in the war (seems he was sick a lot and was a wagoner inbetween being sick). It also gives a land warrant number. The library didn’t have land warrant copies, but at least you’ll know what to look up.
I found a paragraph about Nevil Wayland in Roster of South Carolina Patriots in the American Revolution by Bobby Gilmer Moss. It has some references in it that were not explained in the book and are probably references to records at the Archives (we didn’t get to the Archives on this trip).
I also found another book that gives references for (an Index book) Nevil Wayland’s claim filed in SC. The DAR library has volumes and volumes of pension application records, but nothing for Nevil or Joseph.
So, if you will email a snail mail address to send the copies to I’ll put them in the mail. I am sorry I didn’t get to the Archives – I think that’s where the actual documents will be. Maybe on the next trip (not yet planned, but surely will happen).
Cheryl
Techteach,
I don’t know how the DAR recognizes Indian scouts. I would have to look at an application for a Patriot who is a known scout I guess. I haven’t ever run into documents or books recording Indians who fought in the Revolution except in books about specific battles or specific groups – like the books about Kings Mountain for instance. My impression at the moment is that Indians are not recognized as Indians in any government documents that count people including Revolutionary War docs. I would expect that the DAR would only recognize an Indian scout if they were documented somewhere as having helped in some way. So, proof of service would be a letter from an officer mentioning the scout or some other document that officially recognizes them or describes what they did. I know that proof of service can be something other than being a soldier. I have two ancestors, both approved DAR patriots, who assisted by gathering or selling supplies to the troops. On the other hand, I have an ancestor who organized an effort to take provisions to the burned out people in Norfolk, VA and my application for him was turned down because he was considered a possible Loyalist. He had visited the British officer in charge to “ask permission” to bring provisions and had also “asked permission” of the Colonist’s officer in charge in the area. He was Quaker and his actions are not at all odd for someone who simply wants to assists people in need, but I think the person who checked the application probably thought talking to the British in a civil way was a bad thing – maybe even a Loyalist’s actions. I’m Quaker and I’m sure his thoughts would have been simple and direct based on his beliefs – not convoluted and laden with some other agenda. I need to figure out how to get that across to the DAR now – how to document it again in another way.
I did find several books listing and giving some biographies for Loyalists – found a couple ancestors in these.
Cheryl
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