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Sean C;34535 wrote: Old Thomas Collins is haplogroup E1b1a so there’s no relation between Old Tom & Vardy/Griffin. Most likely Vardy and Griffin are of English descent through the male lineage, that’s what R1a indicates. E1b1a is West African in origin.
I am an E1b1a, but my dna does not match Old Thomas Collins. My trail ends in 1862 with John Collins of Scott County,Virginia. Of my genetic matches the farthest any of us have gotten is Moses Collins born abt 1776 in North Carolina.
As far as DNA has come over the years…I have found it is much less frustrating…well, maybe not much less…to search locations and associated families…and you will find families in these early times made alliances through marriage, etc…often children are named after respected people…friends…
DNA is awesome, if you have a direct link…meaning male only…or female only…if the lines cross over…well, then you have to find a direct descendant in that line…you may already know this…but I just wanted to give my 2 cents:) Trace the families…associated families…and travels, when you find correlations, then you may just have something:) Blessings,
Shirley
Sean C;34539 wrote: Does anyone know what Meredith Collins dna is?
Jack Goins used to have the DNA data on his site…here are a few links, don’t know if they will help…Brenda’s Collins ended up in Nicholas, WV…specifically Fenwick Mountain, with my Gibson’s…shows it is really worth watching allied families and their travels:) Blessings,
Shirley
http://historical-melungeons.blogspot.com/2008/11/some-descendants-of-meredith-collins.html
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~varussel/families/mcollins.html
Shirley,
I am from MN – have only been in AZ for a year. Heading back to MN in about a week for a visit.
Nice to meet you.
Annie
I would like to gather more information before I accept the premise that Old Thomas Collins is an E1b1a or E3a. I have some questions in my mind that need to be answered. Is this line of thought from the DNA test of Don Collins? Don, himself in the following thread says his paper trail stops with Valentine Collins.
http://newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/COLLINS/2008-04/1208831237
Is there any documented proof as to the father of Valentine? Is there proof that Valentine descends from Old Thomas Collins of Flatt River? Are Valentine and Vardy brothers or not? How was the connection previously made that Valentine and Vardy were brothers? Has anyone else been tested from Valentine’s line? I think someone else should be tested from Valentine’s line so we can compare it with the test of Don. (I don’t know, maybe someone else already has been tested from Valentine’s line)
It would seem as though my brother’s DNA shows my line is related to Vardy Collins by ftdna and Ancestry, according to Sean. So, is this proof Vardy & Valentine are not brothers….could they have been raised as brothers, but Valentine was the result of an affair? Could they have been raised as brothers and Valentine was an “adopted child”?
I am not sure who the father is of Griffin Sr for sure. That is why in my previous post I put probable John Collins>Old Thomas. Maybe my wording should have said possible.
Annie
I guess I should re-phrase an earlier comment. Old Thomas and Vardy/Griffin aren’t related through the Male line, however there could be a relation through the female line. My best guess for myself is that a Collins woman had a son and he took her surname since I only match a small group of Collins & Goins. I looked at your links; much of it seems to have been written before DNA was popular, since it was stated that Meredith & Vardy were probably grandsons of Old Thomas Collins. They may have been brothers,but not paternal grandsons of Old Thomas. It’s possible that their father married a Collins woman descended from Old Tom and that’s how they’re related to him.
From what I’ve seen Griffin & Vardy came from an old colonial Collins family from England. I’ve read to that Vardy was an Indian who stole his name from a Collins; according to DNA I don’t believe this true, maybe some of the E1b1a Collins stole their name from the R1a Vardy/Griffin line.
It is Don Collins maybe he found something out since he posted that in 2008.
his ysearch ID is 269U9 here’s the link.
http://www.ysearch.org/alphalist_view.asp?uid=23h4j&letter=C&lastname=Collins&viewuid=269U9&p=0
Maybe he’s wrong I really don’t know.No one else has claimed descent from Old Thomas.
I didn’t know Griffin was listed as FPC(free person of color) on the 1830 census. Because I didn’t think Griffin was classified as a Melungeon. I knew Vardy was, he’s considered a “Melungeon patriarch”
What you say is true Ann, there were alot of affairs going on in those days as they are now.My father was the product of an affair. So I don’t doubt what you’re saying. R1a is all over Europe, but E1b1a is An African lineage. So the Portuguese theory may be true.Many Melungeons claimed to be Portuguese or “portygee”. Portugal has haplogroups R1a,R1b,G,J, E1b1b and a small percentage of E1b1a.
Thank you Sean. So we should look for another male descendant of Valentine Collins to compare with Don’s results.
Right now it has been said Meredith and Griffin Sr are brothers. Guess we will not know if that is true about a relatedness until a direct male from that line is tested.
Can you tell me where you have found the information that Griffin & Vardy are from an old colonial Collins family? Seems to me if this is true, we should match one of the lines that has been tested. It seems odd, that the group my brother falls into doesn’t match the DNA of any of the colonial Collins lines tested. Am I wrong in my train of thought?
Thank you for your thoughts.
Ann,
I found this on rootsweb
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=tamilynn&id=P3961570640
You may want to contact them to see if their info is legit.
Since this line was in Virginia in the 1600s and goes back to England, I called it a “Colonial family”
I spoke to you once before on the ancestry forums my username was writing179, that’s how I found out about your brother’s dna.
It’s strange that none of Don Collins’ matches are Collins, they’re all surnamed Bunch. I’ve tried asking him through email, but he never responds.
Here’s another site thay say Old Thomas Collins was the son of Catherine McCollins & ?
http://www.freeafricanamericans.com/Virginia_NC.htm
I was looking on the internet and found the following remarks about Vardy:
1. These two, Vardy Collins and Buck Gibson, were the had and source of the Melungeons in Tennessee……
2. I am descended from Melungeon “patriarch” Vardimon “Vardy” Collins…..
I could only find these two remarks right now, but I know that Vardy has also been referred to as the “progenitor” of the Melungeons and also as the “famous” Melungeon. Melungeons are often referred to as tri-racial. Since Vardy is an R1a of English or European descent with no African because we are not E3a – then how come he is a famous Melungeon?
I think that no matter if we are Melungeons or Indians, both are interesting. I just want to be able to think things through. One of my characteristics is that I am strategic – so I am always thinking about the “what if”
Annie
Grainger County, Tennessee
Series M19, Roll 180, page 375
Larkin Collens, Griffin Collens, Senr, and Levi Collens and their households are listed consecutively as free colored persons.
Larkin Collens: 1 male under 10, 2 males 10-23, 1 male 24-35, 2 females under 10, 1 female 24-35.
Griffin Collens, Senr: 2 males under 10, 1 male 55-100, 2 females 10-23, 1 female 24-35, 1 female 55-100.
Levi Collens: 1 male under 10, 1 male 24-35, 2 females under 10, 1 female 24-35.
Everyone else on the page is white, except the Winston Parton household, listed three lines below Levi Collens, with a white male 40-49, and all the rest FCP: 2 males under 10, 2 males 10-23, two females under 10, two females 10-23, 1 female 36-54.
Series M19, Roll 180, p. 403
Griffin Collins and household are the only FCP on the page
Griffin Collins: 1 male 24-35, 2 females under 10, 1 female 10-23.
I think that the idea that Meredith Collins and Griffin were brothers comes from the Grainger County marriage bond of John Collins and Lydia Toner (my ggg grandparents), October 8, 1821. Griffin Collins was bondsman. Brenda Collins Dillon believed Meredith Collins was John Collins’s father, and so Griffin Sr. might have been his uncle. According to the 1850 Tazewell Co., Virginia census John was born in 1799, which would make him about the same age as Griffin Jr.
My family’s oral history was that John Collins’s father was also named John, and that he was an extremely large man who left his body to his doctor in Knoxville. No luck so far tracking THAT down!
We didn’t have any stories of our Collinses being Indian, or Melungeon, although I think they must have been – my grandmother thought John was Irish. She said Lydia was German. I haven’t definitely found John and Lydia on the 1830 census (there are too many John Collinses), but the family that looks the most likely to me is in Hawkins County, and is FCP.
Has anyone done the DNA for John Collins & Lydia Toner’s descendants? I suppose back then anyone who didn’t look white was classified as FPC even Native Americans were given this designation at times.
I’m stuck on John Collins born 1862 in Virginia married to Margaret ? born 1858 in VA. I’ve not found their marriage record yet, but a census says they were married in 1881. John’s son Hugh Collins married Nettie Hall. Hugh & Nettie are my great-grandparents.
I’ve seen some family trees that confuse John 1862 with John D. Collins born 1867. Both were in Scott County,VA at the same time. John stayed in Scott County with his wife and children, while John D. moved to Wise County,VA with his mother.
I’m not so sure that Vardy wasn’t part African or Indian. He wasn’t from a direct male line, but could have been from the female line. He is often described as looking Indian and he was the Chief of the “Collins Tribe”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melungeon
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nativeamericangen/page15.html
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