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I said “I” find this hilarious and I still do. I didn’t say everyone had to. Looking at the archives I think this thread was no more offensive or potentially damaging to society or to be misunderstood by youth than most posts made under this topic.
Ed, I am offended when people make jokes about women’s breasts. Age wise you have only a few years on me. I don’t consider you to be of a different age group than myself. Indians are very good at educationg their children. I have no fear that a shirt that expresses their parents standing up against what they perceived as an injustice will add up to creating violence. I think the opposite of you. I think this is good for Indian youth.
I have been disgusted or offended at what I’ve read under “Know Any Funny Stories?” recently more often than not. But then I know I’m ultra-sensitive so I don’t expect others to conform to my standards.
I saw no humor in this image:
“No” , I said. “I’d been sitting in the street licking my butt when a car hit me.”
But many others here did. And I thought that was why guys tell jokes like this…to shock the ladies.
And this one offended me on multiple levels:
“Candidate #2: Vote for me. I am a black man….. but not TOO black. My ggrandma was a Cherokee princess. Does this podium make my skin look lighter? Wanna see me tapdance?”
Given that ½ of our population are Democrats, this probably offended about ½ of us.
Myself, though it’s not my story, making fun of the Cherokee Princess story offends me…It is just misinterpretations between cultures. It was often leaders daughters given in marriage to establish a trade relationship during the fur trade. That families honor their Grandmothers with this story should not be ridiculed in my opinion and I do tell people that when they rag on it. And after searching the censuses I’ve seen the idea that it was always a Grandmother is wrong too. The principal of “I’m white but can’t prove it” is very similar to the Cherokee Princess idea. It is Indians making fun of people claiming to be Cherokee.
If they hadn’t been busy going after Imus they could have been here after that post. This is a site devoted to multiracial people. I would think it must have offended many.
I say, attempting to police the jokes posted here is way more than I would attempt. I would just live and let live.
To all:
Jokes by their very nature are often offensive and therein often lies the humor. When we can’t joke about our plight, then we are truly lost. Yes, we are all mixed-bloods here…… it is our plight but also our greatest gift. Some will embrace the indian blood and thus BE indian. However, if you are “part indian”, sensitive, or easily outraged then you will most likely just piss off most indians. Then you will be the joke. Such is the nature of ndn humor.
Thank you Dreaminghawk for lending your experience and giving balance here.
Due to the Indian policy given to us by our Euro-American ancestors; we have a very difficult row to hoe. More times than not it is probably better to leave out the word “part” Indian. We usually don’t say part English, part German, and part Irish. However, there are very public instances where people without black hair who do believe they have Indian ancestry but who have not formally documented it, have been criticized for saying they “were Indian” in national Indian publications in articles written by Indian reporters respected by the Indian community. There I read the person should have said they were “part Indian” and should not say they are Indian unless they are an enrolled member of a tribe. Indian peoples and ideas come in as many varieties as any other people. No matter where we go we might be criticized by someone.
Where I grew up I estimate at least ¼ of the population said they were of Indian heritage and the community fully embraced and accepted this. Where I live now when I tell whites that, (now let me get this right, Dreaminghawk…) I’m Indian, at least 85% of the time they then greatly insult and criticize Indians right to my face. This will be in social situations, places of work, at school, you name it. My reaction varies depending on the circumstances and my mood from raising my head high and ignoring it, attempting to educate or explain, to putting them in their place with words and dramatically getting up and walking out on a group of people. By nature I am non-judgmental and respectful of people to the point of being silent. Ed has me thinking perhaps I need to become more assertive and develop phases of peace making to express when these situations present themselves, usually by whites.
There is great prejudice against Indians here to the degree of murders committed as hate crimes and not investigated or prosecuted. When activists speak here it is not to “stir up trouble”, but is necessary to counter and balance the extreme inequality before the law. Given the graveness of the situation I think answering it with thought provoking witty and humorous phases is not a bad thing. It is the University professors that lend support to these Indian causes within the community. It is at the Law College were I heard have heard Indian Activists speak and where I got my autograph. They are not the “younger more radical smart alicks taking over ignoring the wisdom of the elders”, they are the elders protecting the wisdom of their people. Indians here had no caves or mountains to retreat to in order to escape the invaders. One should be cautious in judging a situation they have not personally witnessed. I do have Indian friends who are the kindest, sweetest, most sensitive, respectful, and courageous people I know. Myself, I feel more comfortable among them.
Now…does anybody know any funny stories? 🙂
First I want to apologize because I did not intend to make a joke of anyone’s anatomy. My observation was intentions to present a message or word of truth or express a thought can be good but the method does not always justify the means. No one has any more respect for ladies than I do and my personal faith and commitment does not allow me nor am I inclined to make fun of or ridicule that which the Lord has made. I apologize again for that offense and in my own error somehow proved the care we must take in expressing ourselves.
For some years I have seen shirts with “NO FEAR” written on them and then I began to make note of the various statements they were making. I know the very basis of our faith and moral life is based on a “Fear” Awe, Reverence of God, Creator, The Lord and from this begins Wisdom through which we relate to our fellow man and hold ourselves in respect. Those shirts were with subtilty planting a statement or thought into the mind of every person who read them. We no longer have the generation of children and young people as when we were growing up. My grandchildren are being bombarded every day with ideas and life styles totally foreign to anything I ever knew. This may seem picky but what is the real motive behind the images , slogans, and “wise statements” we are bombarded with ? We have no idea if the person designing a shirt is simply intending to make a legitimate statement or if they belong to a more radical view that anyone not containing a specific or in fact any amount of “other” blood must eventually be driven out of the country. They accept no mixed bloods ! That thinking is out there and bigotry and prejudice is alive and well, I am sorry to say. Please do not believe I ever slander myself and others by making remarks that make fun of anyone in any manner. I believe I know something of how Barb feels, my heart is Native and whether movie, book or real life if the person and group fight a just battle I am on their side. My Grandmother happened to be the only “white child” in a family of 9 children. My search is greatly hampered because my first introduction is interpreted “who do you think you are, why is a white guy bothering me.?” For me ” Fighting Terrorism Since 1492″ is sort of a half truth. The implication is that all Europeans are Terrorist and that “All” Native American were safe from slaughter, enslavement, and eradication until Columbus arrived. We certainly know that is not true ! Plenty of that occured long before the first Spanierd, Englishman, or Frenchman ever arrived.
Now for real humour ! Sometimes the best humour of the day is when I look in the mirror in the morning ! What a dry and senseless world this would be if I could not laugh at myself. I think, no , I know the Lord has a sense of Humour or else how would He tolerate me. ED
Hey Folks, well since I made the statement about liking a certain line let me explain;
My family has always been horse people; I had my first picture taken when I was on the back of a horse; when I was 12 years old I was the one that climbed on the back of an unbroken horse my first real job!,
My family has always had horses or rode them atleast until very recently, my brother-in-law owns about 40 of them!
Why did I find that ” my heros have always killed cowboys” humorous because of the shock value, people have always thought that cowboys were the greatest guys on earth, let me re-assure you that they have not always been “there”, did Holly Wood ever make fun of mixed bloods,?
Remember Yosemite Sam and Bugs Bunny “keeping down the fort” -“one little- two little – three little Indians four little- five little, six –OOOPS that one was a HALF BREED”! (NOT FUNNY)
Humor comes in all flavors and I like mine “dark and murky and a little bitter.!
Imagine one of the Lakota childrens fathers or brothers off to war, who would have been his hero?
If there’s a song with a twisted line that helps me laugh at something that has bothered me in a day, then I’ll laugh simple as that!
I used to make articles out of birch bark, one day a mixed blood guy that I knew said to me “hey half breed sell any wood today” I was really offended, later he told me he said it because he could and that he was a “half breed”.
Dark or not humor makes me laugh and I like good humor, “I am part white and can’t prove it”, I’d bet some of my greatest heros would have worn one!
Wachiniki, your entire post was well said. This quote where you summed it all up is excellent:
>>>One should be cautious in judging a situation they have not personally witnessed. I do have Indian friends who are the kindest, sweetest, most sensitive, respectful, and courageous people I know. Myself, I feel more comfortable among them.<<<
The people that Becky and I have met here at Saponitown and on the NC-VA powwow trail are the best friends we have ever had. They are also some of the laughingest people we have ever seen. The secret to success is to be real…… what you see is what you get. … oh, and keep finding the humor in things that ain’t right about life. In my case what you get is sometimes an ornery old goat…. but I’ll still be laughing 😉
Hey Tom, I grew up with horses too!
“What’s wrong with you?…did you grow up in a barn!?”
“Well, yes, I did.”
I love the smell of a horse barn.
I saw my Dad break 4 horses. I guess the most we ever had when I was home were 4. My (rich) uncle (not Indian) who lived 5 miles away had over 100 head and was breeding appaloosas. He started this as a business for a tax write-off and didn’t know much about horses so would always consult my Dad.
The last horse we got when I was still home was a dunn colored Appaloosa mare with a white blanket rump named Show Princess; not that I ever showed other than halter class in 4-H at the County Fair. Dad said he didn’t really believe in or like the idea of having to do every thing so structured, to follow all the rules to show and prefered just to ride free without having to think about it all the time. I was his girl so naturally I adapted that philosophy myself, probably in much of life. Here I thought the reason Dad always wore cowboy boots was because it made him as tall as Mom. Telling this story in this place I see it was because he was a Cowboy.
We had this narrow fenced area about 100 yards long from the cow pasture to the horse tank and windmill. Dad would do the ultimate breaking by riding the bucking horse up that lane. This was after he’d trained them to neck-rein from the ground. After he broke Princess then he’d saddle her up and put me on her back with him at my side with the plan for me to jump into his arms when she bucked. That worked well a time or two. One day she’d evidently bloated her belly out when he had tighten the cinch and when she bucked I and the saddle went the other way and I hit the ground. I must not have gotten hurt because that’s all of the story I remember.
I know my Dad learned how to handle horses from his Great Uncle John, son of Joseph, who the Indian family story comes from. We should compare methods of breaking horses to see if there are similarities. Though my Dad was influenced by his monthly subscription to The Western Horseman Magazine that he read cover to cover many times over. Dad didn’t believe in hitting horses. The one thing he did believe in was immediately twisting their lip hard if they bit you and to lightly kick them back in the leg if they kicked you. Dad also shoed horses for a lot of people; but never for money. He had an anvil and everything.
So I guess a reason we can laugh at the Willy’s joke like him is because we are “Cowpersons” and Indians too.
I’ve been saying to Indian friends for along time that the only real cowboys left are Indians. Most wear boots often. They just give me a strange look and don’t understand what I mean even after I explain. I think I just say something like…well the only real people left. I think you here, will understand.
Everyone,
Please check out Blackindiangirl’s post here we all need to read.
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=25384#post25384
I think the T-shirts are funny, but I wouldn’t wear them myself.
Sometimes you just have to laugh, ya know.
Most misunderstandings and offences are brought on by not understanding a culture. In my reading of history, I have seen many tragedies that could have been avoided had each side understood the other. I think…myself included, because we are mixed, are a little tighter wound when it comes to our roots and maybe a little defensive. I think…myself included, that we need to pay less attention to what others think of us and listen to our hearts.
I live in an area, where casinos have made the local NDNs wealthy, but there are others, such as Pine Ridge who are very poor. I have heard critics of both the wealthy and poor…:confused: I think those who talk badly, will do so regarless.
I read good book, Neither Wolf Nor Dog, on forgotten roads with an Indian elder. The writer of the book Ken asked the elder, (refering to Pine Ridge) “why are all these old cars just laying around” (paraphrase)? The Elder said, (paraphrase) the Indian in old times used everything in nature and in the end it all went back into the earth. See to the outsider it may look like one thing and to those who live there something else.
As with jokes, well they will always offend someone…I know what is funny to me and the way I interpret a joke may be entirely different than someone else…I think we just need to lighten up…take what is good for us and leave what is not.:) Blessings.
And as for the horses…My maternal line has been into horses for many years. My mother brought the first Tennessee Walkers to Montana (1940’s?). My aunt raises horses and so does my sister…I just love them…there is such freedom on the back of a horse. I remember riding in the mountains of Montana and loving the smell of pine…I could assume my paternal line was also into horses, with a surname like Hackney…
That’s a great point, many people believe that all cowboys are white (and sometimes black) and all Indians are red (and sometimes white)!HAHA:D
Here is a link on Indian Cowboys that a friend did several years ago, so I can trust the content!
http://www.ecampus.com/book/0295977299
Legends of Our Times: Native Cowboy Life
Author(s): Baillargeon, Morgan; Tepper, Leslie
ISBN10: 0295977299
“Candidate #2: Vote for me. I am a black man….. but not TOO black. My ggrandma was a Cherokee princess. Does this podium make my skin look lighter? Wanna see me tapdance?”
Can anyone out there explain to me why some “full blooded” First Peoples/Native Americans/Indians have a problem with “mixed blooded” Native Americans? Does anyone out there have a legitimate reason why, excluding just being prejudiced?
People like that make it hard for people like me who try to “connect” with our “other” bloodlines.
Once again……..Divide and Conquer.:(
1 Optimistic,
I don’t think it’s prejudice at all. I think it’s the fear that once the nose of the camel is allowed into the tent, it’s only a matter of time before a whole herd of camels crowds the Arab right out of his own tent.
Anyhow, here’s what a Tuscarora chief had to say to some of my distant kin… and the aggravating thing is that they/we probably DO have some Tuscarora blood.
_______________________________________________________________
HAUDENOSAUNEE
TUSCARORA NATION
2006 MT. HOPE ROAD- VIA: LEWISTON, NEW YORK 14092
October 10, 2001
Charles Braveboy
Robert Jacobs Chavis
780 Andrews Farm Road
Rowland, North Carolina 28383-8080
Dear Mr. Braveboy and Mr. Charles:
The Chiefs and Clan Mothers of the Tuscarora Nation, one of the Six
Nations of the Haudenosaunee, issue the following statement on the
Tuscarora East of the Mountains. The Tuscarora Nation does not and
will not provide any recognition of your organization as being
affiliated with the Tuscarora Nation. Over the last four decades we
have heard from various groups in North Carolina claiming to be of
Tuscarora blood.
Please be informed that the Council Fire of the Tuscarora Nation was
moved from North Carolina and rekindled in our present homeland in
the 18th Century. The Tuscarora Nation was given shelter under the
Great Law of Peace of the Haudenosaunee and we are bound by that law
in our relationship with the Seneca, Cayuga, Onondaga, Oneida and
Mohawk Nations.
In the past, the Tuscarora Nation investigated claims of those in
North Carolina and it was determined that the claim of Tuscarora
descent were not legitimate. In the 1970’s the Tuscarora Nation
Council of Chiefs sent a delegation to investigate the claims of
individuals that they were Tuscarora. After meeting with the people,
considering their evidence and the historical record, it was
determined that their claims did not have any basis in fact. The
Tuscarora Nation Council of Chiefs, with the concurrence of the Clan
Mothers, determined that there could not be any people in North
Carolina who could have maintained the criteria for citizenship,
much less the culture, kinship, language and governance of the
Tuscarora Nation over the previous centuries.
Our investigation showed that previous Tuscarora Chiefs made several
journeys to North Carolina to collect all of those who wished to
remain with the circle of the nation. In 1766, a delegation of nine
northern Haudenosaunee leaders, including Skarure Chief Diagawekee,
arrived among the Skarure that had remained in North Carolina after
the main body of the nation migrated north. One hundred fifty-five
Skarure left with Chief Diagawekee, however, about one hundred
remained on the reservation in North Carolina. This is true of other
Tuscarora who may have settled in various places along the general
migration north.
Again, in 1803, Skarure Chief Sacarissa and Longboard visited North
Carolina to gather up the remaining Skarure and lead them north to
the Tuscarora Nation. At that time, it was stated that anyone who
remained behind would lose their Tuscarora citizenship and give up
any claim upon the Tuscarora Nation. By 1810, all that would be
considered citizens of the Tuscarora Nation emigrated north and were
received by the nation.
Further, the Tuscarora Nation determines citizenship through the
female lineage. It is not realistic to believe that people left by
the Tuscarora Nation many generations ago would have been able to
retain a Tuscarora identity due to being scattered and intermarried
with other cultures. Never in the past has one person who resides in
North Carolina been recognized or confirmed by our traditional
process of selecting a leader. People who use the titles of the
Tuscarora Chiefs or Clan Mothers without authorization of the
Tuscarora Nation Council of Chiefs violate our laws, the laws of the
Haudenosaunee and are committing fraud.
The Tuscarora Nations has asked that those claiming to be Tuscarora
cease and desist from trying to claim the name of our nation, the
name of our titleholders, or assume any rights to our land and
culture. These rightfully are a part of the national cultural
patrimony of the Tuscarora Nation of the Haudenosaunee. We insist
that you stop representing yourself as being Tuscarora, or as
Tuscarora Chiefs, Clan Mothers, or a Tuscarora organization. The
Tuscarora Nation does not recognize or sanction the Southern band of
Tuscarora, the Tuscarora Tribe of North Carolina or the Tuscarora
Nation of the Kau-ta-noh, or any other group claiming to be
Tuscarora.
Further, the Tuscarora Nation is on record as being opposed to
organized gambling and we would vigorously resist any attempts to
operate any gaming operations in our name. No one from the Tuscarora
Nation has been authorized to offer any business assistance for any
economic venture.
These people that operate without the sanction of the Tuscarora
Nation and do so at their own risk. No business can claim the
collective rights of the Tuscarora Nation nor seek sovereign
immunity without the consent of the nation.
We regret having to inform you of our position; however, we have to
protect the legitimate rights of our nation and people.
Oneh!
Chief Leo B. Henry, Clerk
Tuscarora Nation
cc:
Gale Norton
Secretary of the Interior
United States Department of the Interior
1849C Street, NW
Washington, DC, 20240
Neal A. McCaleb
Assistant Secretary-Indian Affairs
United States Department of the Interior
1849 C Street, NW
Washington, DC, 20240
Franklin Keel
Eastern Regional Director
Bureau of Indian Affairs
711 Stewarts Ferry Plce
Nashville, TN, 37214
Governor Mike Easley
Executive Mansion
700 North Blount Street
Raleigh, NC, 27610
Gregory A. Richardson
Executive Director
Native American Affairs
212 West Jones Street
Raleigh, NC, 27699
Wow! How can a Native American true at heart do such a thing to another? Doesn’t it go against all that we stand for and have been taught? I believed and still do that ndns are the one “race” of people who treated their own……no matter the tribal affiliation…..to actually show human kindness one to another!
I guess that goes to show there will always be a “black sheep” amongst us human families. That’s sad.
I think it’s the fear that once the nose of the camel is allowed into the tent, it’s only a matter of time before a whole herd of camels crowds the Arab right out of his own tent.
Thank you for your comment; however, are some “full blooded” First People/Native Americans/Indians saying that “mixed bloods” are a different species?
How can anyone compare a camel to a “mixed blood?” I could see if your example was comparing Arab’s from different clans/tribes. To me, your example is like comparing fruit to chicken. There’s no comparison. Do you understand my point regarding your example?
I understand that I was not brought up the Native Way but “blood is thicker than water.” I believe that my ancestors would be happy that I have the passion to seek after my roots.
Personally, I am not concerned about the politics anyway.
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