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Thanks Brenda for the list of surnames. I am new to this list. I am a Reference Librarian in SC, but my family originated from Virginia and North Carolina. Our family surnames are Coleman, Cunningham, Phelps, Mason, and Jones. As my family story has been told there was only one person who was a slave during the Civil War and that was Scott Coleman, my grandmother’s grandfather on her father’s side. All of the other ancestors on both sides were listed as mulatto on the census records back to 1840. My family resided or settled near South Boston, Virginia and moved back and forth to Caswell County, North Carolina. I knew that we are from a tri-racial community, but I had never heard of the Saponi until I stumbled on this website while assisting another patron. I hope to learn more about the boundaries of this tribe to see if we are connected to the Blackfoot or Cherokee. Thanks again. Maria
Marie,
You are very welcome. and I would like to welcome you to the forum. This is more than just a bullitin Board; it’s a family. We have some great people here and most are very knowledgable and helpful. Don’t forget to check out the search feature.
Jones can be a Saponi or Meherrin name. Coleman is a name found among Indian families in the southeast.
Make sure you connect with Saponi 1, she’s got family from Danville.
The following excerpts are from Jack Goins book, Melungeons: and Other Pioneer Families, which he has kindly granted me permission to enter here. If you would like additional information or to purchase your own copy of his excellent research, please contact him at: jgoins@usit.net
Identifying the forefathers of the Tennessee Melungeons, then backtracking the ones who arrived at Blackwater in 1790 to the New River, to the Flat River, and back to their homeland on the Pamunkey River in Virginia should convince most adversaries the Melungeon Indian claims were true. … (Calloway Collins) told the reporter Allen Dromgoole in 1890 that … his clan was known as the Ben Tribe, and they, the Collins and Gibsons, had stolen those names from white settlers in Virginia where they were living as Indians, before migrating to North Carolina. …The Melungeons believe themselves to be of Cherokee and Portuguese extraction.
pp. 37
Linda,
As far as I can tell when they split up and moved into the Tennessee and SW Virginia area they stole the names of Collins & Shephard. I believe Collins originated from the John Collins who was commissioner of Indian Affairs (late 1600’s through time of Fort Christianna)He was also used as an interperer. My thoughts are that he probably had a Saponi wife and they had John Collins Jr…the Saponi arrested for hog stealing and the beginning of our “Collins” line. They got kicked out of Orange co. Va and crossed the border and settled along the Flatt River.
There was one they called Benjamin Collins…thus Ben’s tribe.
Also one named Solomon…Sol’s tribe
Forest: Calm down … I know I don’t have any proof and it erritates you to have something written down w/o the documentation but sometimes it just isn’t there.
http://www.geocities.com/ourmelungeons/history.html
Many of these sons and daughters of the people who became known in history as the Melungeons lost their identity through intermarriages with their white neighbors and the job of finding and locating these families can only be done through family genealogy. Some of these may have mixed with Indian tribes and lived among them. The main body of the ones who became known as Melungeons and carrying Melungeon traits fall into a basic family name grouping which includes Boulden, also spelled Bowlin, Bolen, Bowling, and Bolton, Bunch, Collins, also Collens and Colins, Fields, Gibson, Gipson, Goins also spelled Goen, Goan, Going, Minor, Mullins, Williams, Nichols. Of course by reason of several generations of intermarriage with neighboring white settlers, many other names are blood related to the Historical Melungeons.
Are those the only names associates with Melungeons, or are they from one of the Melungeon communities. I ask because ALL of those names are core Saponi names.
Linda,
The core names are the first Melungeon surnames that show up in Hawkins County Tennessee area, however according to Calliway Collins, descended from Old Vardy Collins, the Collins,Bowlings,and Gipson’s “were living in Virginia as friendly Indians” before comming to Newman’s Ridge. He said the Vardy Collins and Buck Shephard had stole the Collins name from the settlers in Virginia.
I have been trying to find out more on the Commissioner of Indian Affairs in the late 1600 to early 1700 by the name of JOHN COLLINS. I ask Forest about this. This John Collins was also used as an interputer. Do you remember sending me a package of material quiet some time ago. A lot of communications between Spottswood and England concerning the Colonies and Trading Company? I found this John Collins has signed many of those documents as a witness. I ask Forest if this John Collins could have been Saponi. He said probably not as Indians durning that time period didn’t hold such office. It was possible he was married to a Saponi woman.
The John Collins in the 1742 court trial then COULD have been the commissioner and Saponi woman’s son ….John Collins. This could be where the Collins name came into play. NOW….if I could prove this!
Linda,
I found this in my many notes. Will Allen Dromgoole was a WOMAN who went to Newman’s Ridge and lived among them while writting a book. She wrote two or three the Four Branches being,I believe, her last. In one of her books she wasn’t so kind with her words of the Melungeons and many took offence. For the entire articel I have provided the link below.
http://www.geocities.com/ourmelungeons/meltree.html
Somewhere in the eighteenth century, before the year 1797, there appeared in the eastern portion of Tennessee, at that time the Territory of North Carolina, two strange-looking men calling themselves “Collins” and “Gibson”. They had a reddish brown complexion, long , straight , black hair, keen, black eyes, and sharp, clear-cut features. They spoke in broken English, a dialect distinct from anything ever heard in that section of the country.
They claimed to have come from Virginia and many years after emigrating, themselves told the story of their past.
These two, Vardy Collins and Buck Gibson, were the head and source of the Melungeons in Tennessee. With the cunning of their Cherokee Ancaster, they planned and executed a scheme by which they were enabled to “set up for themselves” in the almost unbroken Territory of North Carolina.
Old Buck, as he was called, was disguised by a wash of some dark description, and taken to Virginia by Vardy where he was sold as a slave. He was a magnificent specimen of physical strength, and brought a fine price, a wagon and mules, a lot of goods, and three hundred dollars in money being paid to old Vardy for his “likely n—–“. Once out of Richmond, Vardy turned his mules shoes and stuck out for the wilderness of North Carolina, as previously planned. Buck lost little time ridding himself of his Negro disguise, swore he was not the man bought of Collins , and followed in the wake of his fellow thief to the Territory.
The proceeds of the sale were divided and each chose his habitation; old Vardy choosing Newman’s Ridge, where he was soon joined by others of his race, and so the Melungeons became a part of the inhabitants of Tennessee.
This story I know is true. There are reliable parties still living who received it from old Vardy himself, who came here as young men and lived, as the Melungeons generally did to a ripe old age.
The names “Collins” and “Gibson” were also stolen from the white settlers in Virginia where the men had lived previous to emigrating to North Carolina.
Originally posted by Linda
I’m hoping to chase down some documentation this week that a friend told me exists in the archives in Richmond about a group of chiefs from or around Fort Christanna who informed the Governor of Virginia that they were banding together for strength and that they called themselves the Blackfoot. Wish me luck. If I can nail that down, I think that will pretty much do just that — nail it down.
Wondering if you ever found this, and put it on some other thread?
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We have half dozen surnames from the Melungeon list but they aren’t the core ones, and may just be their because they are common old Anglo settler names (Jackson, Moore, Cooper, Byrd, Reeves, others).
And we have both a Blackfoot story and Cherokee. (we originate from VA/NC.) lol So, now what? Sheesh, we’re practically generic!
Linda and Hana,
Wow! I’m glad Hana brought this back up. I probably would have never come across it if she hadn’t. There is a lot of really fascinating information here. I too identify with a couple of names on Brenda’s list. And I too have that oral tradition of Blackfoot/Cherokee. Generic! Wow, I never thought of that…..Hm-m-m-m-! So, Linda did you ever find that? Or like Hana said, post it somewhere else. I love it when everyone puts there heads together on here and comes up with so much info. that leads to even more questions to be answered. This is great!
Thank You Hana! Lynella.:)
No, I haven’t found it. Looking for it has caused me to read a lot of original source material and that’s a good thing, but I haven’t found it. The person who says he remembers seeing it clear as day did a lot of research in colonial archives in England, so that may be where we have to look. One of the things I’d like to see us do if we can ever get a 501 3-c organization going, is to go looking for a grant that will send a likely young scholar over the pond to research any materials pertaining to our people that we don’t have over here.
Anybody here know about the paperwork for 501-3c’s? I hear it’s daunting.
Brenda, I love that TN Melungeon story. I assume there’s plenty of evidence that this story pre-dates the movie, “Skin Game.”
Linda,
Hey, on that 501 3-c, maybe I can start checking on that this afternoon. That’s a wonderful idea, by the way.
I don’t think I’ve heard of that movie Skin Game. What’s that? I never thought that checking into my mother’s family would get me in touch with so many wonderful people or get me involved in such an important task, but I love this and I am so glad to be here. Love & Light, lynella.;)
By all means, if you can take a look at the 501 3c process, it would be a great help.
James Garner and Lou Gossett, Jr played a couple of antebellum con artists. Lou would play the dumb step and fetch it guy and Garner would pretend he was a preacher or schoolteacher facing hard times, forced to sell the faithful family servant. After the sale, he’d help Lou to escape. One method was to return to the buyer, tell him he needed to check to see if Lou had come down with leprosy from their missionary days, something like that. Then he’d buy Lou back for a song. Then they’d go on to repeat the performance elsewhere.
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