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I would like to place this in this category and not reply in the Genealogy forum. I am very opinionated on this subject, but I would like to discuss if any person has the right to create, form, and take enrollments for a new Nation, Tribe, Band, or Clan of one of our federally recognized tribes. This would be for any group that does not already have a relationship with our Department of the Interior. My opinion? This is totally and completely needless. Organize yourselves as a heritage group.
Dan.
Understanding the terms tribe and band certainly need to be made clear to anyone organizing themselves as such.
I agree to a certain extent, however.
There is one such group that I have been studying for many years, I have visited with them, been taught amny elements of thier culture by them, they were written up in an early BIA report, (smithsonian) and then dropped.! years later they are rejoining so to speak and getting organized as a community once again., amny of the elders never left thier little town, they are still there.
While this small group was away from thier homes in the very ealr 1900’s the main body of the group was “persuaded” over night to remove to Oklahoma, this small family group misssed the removal and latter were written up in a Smithsonian bulletin, then ignored.One fellow even moved to Washington DC to help on these tribal papers etc where “he fell ill and died”.
Anyway the descendants of those people left behind are getting everything together in order to ask for federal ercognition , something that should have been given prior to 1900.!
There are several groups out there that should be given recognition and never were, if they are a legitimate group , I say “go for it”.
But for those groups that have no basis only time will tell.
There is many groups across the south that should have something but on what level?
One such group has the papers back to the 1700’s and have been called extinct many times but they canh prove who they are, the FEDS say “sure we see that” but we’re not sure if you deserve recognition.
People need to recognized as Native Americans wether or not they get federal money!
Tom; I understand that there are a few groups like you have said, but a great many are not. Why can’t a person, or persons just be United States citizens of American Indian descent? Why can’t this suffice? What keeps them from learning about. or honoring, or practicing their heritage or culture each and every day? They can’t posess eagle feathers legally? So What? You can organize any number of people in a group and acquire a non-for-profit corporation without claiming you are some long lost division of a federally recognized tribe. Call yourself something else. So then, why do people continuously keep trying to do this? Because they can get away with it?
Dan.
Dan, I’ve argued that point many times. What I can see is that we are, as a culture, brainwashed into the idea that unless the government gives you papers declaring you are Indian, you are not. And no matter what anybody does, that remains the gut level reaction for such a large percentage of the population, that trying to reorganize as a private interest group is seen as bogus.
So, people have huge issues about disproving this alleged fraudulent status and they’ll spend their whole lives trying to do so. In the meantime, there’s nothing saying people can’t reorganize and redefine their lives to give more emphasis and meaning to their native heritage. People are doing that, and they just have to take the name calling on the chin if they want to persevere.
This topic is at the heart of many discussions here and elsewhere. Part of the problem is that in the USA, the government requires us to be either this or that. Can’t be a mix. Yet, for most of us, we are a mix and are happy acknowledging this. Tom and Red Metis made some good comments about this a few months back, reply 31 and a bit earlier, I think, here: http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=24351#post24351
When Red Metis said in that thread that his preferred self-description is “Eastern Siouan Metis”, it really struck a chord with me.
Linda,
Well said! And in support of rebelredsun, I believe that’s exactly what he is doing with his group. I understand the reason why some took offense to his statements and maybe he was ambigous. But I think we should realize that he’s working toward the same goal as the rest of us.
Jim
Linda you are so right.
When we had all the tornados down here in the DFW area of Texas I can remember distinctly the moments on the news when they would go out talk to the people who saw the tornados, felt them, got their houses destroyed by them, almost killed by them and yet “officially” there was not a tornado till the government weather agency declared it to be a tornado and passed that along to the broadcasters. We live in a society where nothing is as we the people experience it until it is sealed and stamped and run through the government machine to declare a thing a thing.
Every thing is processed and accepted or not accepted in this manner.
I for one do not agree with this mind set.
Despite a few differences, I’m liking this thread as it brings up many different issues that are new to me.
It brings up a question I have:
It’s great that many folks here know their Tribe … maybe even what their name should’ve/might’ve/could’ve been, their town … all this is great!
Then, there are many like me – who know the rumors and almost nothing else.
It used to be easy for me – I’ve always been proud of being “part-Indian” – and for the longest time it would suffice to simply answer “Cherokee” whenever anybody asked “What kind of Indian are you”?
Now however, I know more that I used to … but still don’t have the answer. I can no longer answer “Cherokee” – because I don’t know if it’s Cherokee, Saponi, Carmel, Shawnee or what … or what combination. I must admit that it now feels weird – I still feel pride in my Red heritage, even more so – but I have no answer now when people ask “What Tribe”?
While I am really on-the-fence about what I would do if asked, invited or qualified to become a member of a Tribe because I currently feel that I have to know what I am before joining anything but yet, that desire “to belong” runs strong and yes, I can try and live Red, try and walk Red, rise every morning and BE Red … but I still have no answer.
I realize that people that ask this question really aren’t concerned about the answer (usually) – but it is only fair and proper to answer honestly. However, I don’t like the idea of using the word “Heinz” to explain my native blood. And for all I know, my Red may run pure and the only mix might be white … or? … can’t wait for the DNA test!
Advice?
Dan, how well you have stated your case and there are many more of us who could resound your feelings and position. I cannot disprove the Native connection to any tribe mentioned in our family history and I have collected yet another family member who actually saw some of the records and a detailed written account of our family line. We still stand here today with the written and physical proof missing other than what we have seen and heard and what we have been able to find in genealogical research with the help of many we know little more than what we were told originally. Some have surnames that come up quite often and can soon be recognized as connecting to Native American communities and then other than a brief encounter here and there we have no such names specifically although our family always seemed to be located adjoining these communities. I am like you, what should your answer be. I feel you and I and the many more could never come up with an answer that would satisfy the average person asking that question. It will come from the Native community with somewhat of a sneer and attitude as — if you were really native you would have know it all the while. Perhaps you did not only in your oral or written history but in your heart but that will never be enough for them. I will come from the non native as well, although they might carry the blood in their veins as well but denied it for generations ! From them the issue is why ! Why would you want to announce to the world you are Native American as well as European or African or whatever else is your heritage.
Belonging to this forum and this group may be as close as I will ever get and if so I am happy with the friends and brothers and sisters I have found here. The only advise I can give you comes from someone much wiser than myself. “Be not weary in well doing for in due season you shall reap” so don’t give up, be thankful and with a good pride hold your heritage to be valuable and whatever you do, Keep on Keeping on in your search. You like all of us will find satisfaction in the company of so many more who are like us. ED
Linda; I think people will find much more acceptance in “Indian Country” if they will not lay a claim to being a nation, tribe, band or clan of one of our federal tribes. We must realize that the ultimate irritation to them is to appear to them that someone is working towards stealing their identity. I believe they view this as a form of genocide. I view our federal tribes as a national treasure. Primary caretakers and defenders of American Indian culture and heritage. It irritates me for anyone to threaten our federal tribes.
Dan.
Dan; That is just who you should be, just be yourself. If you want to gather together with like people and get organized you can do so without claiming to be a long lost division of a federal tribe. You do already belong to group of people who have shared a common history and experience. Families who are United States citizens of American Indian descent who are remnants of tribes in the east and from Virginia and the Carolinas. Some continued west with the regular migration. This is our history. We can be very proud of just being that.
Dan.
Ed: Thank you for your thoughts and for your advice. I must relate that, when I was first doing my “breechclout wearing, hide-tanning, water-ceremony, vision-questing” things, starting a little more than 25 years ago, I was speaking with a member of the Crow Nation who worked for me and asked him if he observed any of these things. His response was “No. Why would I do that? I’m already an Indian”! He was a young man then – I hope that he has since connected a little deeper with his insides.
Like you, I come from a religious background – was drafted out of seminary (lost my 4F due to my nomadic ways) … and for some time, had to look for common-ground between my religious ways and what I then perceived to be “IndianWay”. It was difficult – after all, I grew up in Ohio where the closest I got to a Native American was at either the Roy Rogers Travelling Rodeo or watching “Broken Arrow” on TV ( and “F Troop”). It was only after moving to the Rockies that I started learning. Thankfully, I’ve come a ways since then.
I do enjoy being here on this site … and it does stir feelings of brotherhood and sisterhood (?) and a sense of “belonging” – but the quest remains.
Thank you again, Ed.
Dan Akin:
I recall just a few years ago when I’d met, online, a member of the real “Blackfoot” Tribe and spent several weeks e-mailing as time would permit.
He spent some time trying to get me to come to culture-camp (for a fee) and learn their ways, hinting at the concept of “adoption”. I felt I had to decline simply because the “Blackfoot” story in my family’s legends didn’t make any sense yet. He asked me something like … “This might be the only chance you have to be an Indian”.
I replied “I am already Indian somehow – and if need be, if I cannot find my place, I will still and always be my own Indian”.
I suppose this sort of mirrors what you are saying.
I feel I must mention at this time all the Tribes that were NOT recognized by the Federal government … yet, were Tribes indeed. Like perhaps the Saponi.
I do get your point about tampering with true legacy. The first things that comes to my mind is about the “Rainbow Warriors” predicted centuries ago – and this thought used to give me some sort of solace but not so much anymore.
To compare: When I was stolen/adopted as a toddler, my future was undoubtedly improved.
What I did not get was my family’s teachings … I got somebody else’s family teachings. I did not get my family legends … I got somebody else’s family legends – in short, I was taken from the life I should have had – right or wrong – by somebody else’s actions.
Now, I can sit and split-clouds all day long if I want (maybe), I can SunDance, I can WarWhoop, I can CoyoteHowl, I can learn words, I can let my hair grow, I can celebrate the Canunpa, I can Ceremony all I want … but Dan, I feel it would be better for me to know the ways and stories of MY ancestors – and no disrespect for the Welsh, English, Irish, Scot, French and Dutch in me … I’m sure most were great people at heart but … and this is just my personal opinion about the White Man … Dan, there’s something wrong with those people! Seems like whatever it is has been wrong since the dawn of Time/Untime. Yeah, I know – whatever they had/have, I’ve got it too but in tuning up my own strings, I find the “ME Chord” written in Red.
Thank you for your advice Dan. It is heartfelt at this end.
True definition of American Indians gets complicated
Our nation abounds in debates about race, identity, citizenship, ethnicity and nationality. American Indians are part of that debate and many issues in the nation today impact the definition of what constitutes an American Indian in the United States. Many assume that to be an American Indian you must have native lineage alone. Unfortunately, the definition of an American Indian is inherently political. Race, ethnicity and cultural affiliation play a part, but to be considered an Indian you must be a member of a recognized native tribe or nation.
When the first European explorers came to North America they encountered cultural groups of people or tribes. By the time colonists arrived many coastal tribes had been decimated by introduced diseases, and those tribes were loose confederations of people. When European powers began to claim vast tracts of land, their government representatives dealt only with nations which were organized. This recognition of independent nations became the basis for the new government’s definition of an American Indian. That definition holds true today.
In the early 19th century, as manifest destiny became federal policy, the Cherokee Nation sought protection via the federal courts. Through a series of Supreme Court decisions the definition of a tribe was “a domestic dependent nation.” Since then our right to determine our citizenship has remained solely with our government but not without federal involvement. Through the next century the federal government defined our membership through treaties, census lists and blood quantum requirements.
Cherokee Old Settler Descendant
Cowboy
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