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I claim everything, everything given is who I am. Claiming one in favor of the others is simply, for me, ludacris. I don’t have to favor anything to feel better about what another has done in history. History is just that…History.
I descend from white and native and know that both did right and wrong. The Shawnee are my ancestors, but they also attacked and killed my white ancestors simply because of them being in the wrong place at the wrong time. My white ancestors knew this could happen, and paid for it dearly when it did.
I read somewhere on this forum about Hawaii…
I am friends with Hawaiians of royal descent. True they are not happy with how things went down, but they don’t hold me responsible, nor any U.S. citizen. They dislike the government thing, but recognize the difference. But here is the thing…
“We The People” are the government. We decdied at some point to just sit back and let those “we” elected to take care of us because we were “too busy”…and we paid for it dearly.
My Hawaiian friends and I are Ohana in the strongest sense of the word. We care about each other deeply. But it has nothing to do with my BQ, or my nationality. None of that, in the grand scheme of things is important. I am human first and foremost and have to deal on that level more than running around playing “Indian”. Too many are putting too much emphasis on being native and dis-owning the rest of their make-up. All of it is important and none of it is any better than the other.
Acceptance is for the birds, accept yourself and the rest will follow.
My white ancestors killed my Shawnee/Mingo ancestors. I am descended from a surveyor who worked for G. Washington who was responsible for the death of Logan’s family. We have a connection with Logan and Tecumseh, according to family lore.
Techteach
This is the first time that I have ever heard anyone say that killing an invader is wrong. Defending your home is wrong?
Invading another country and killing the people is right?
You are certainly right about history “History is just that…History”. I’m not sure you have the grasp of what history is either or how it’s made! What we choose to do or not do with ourselves today is history tomorrow and for the rest of time! What have you done to help make or change history? You didn’t mention any of the Bills so I guess you don’t have a clue about them, did you search them? If you had you would have certainly commented on them or knew how important they are. You stated that “we the people” decided to just sit back and let the government do, as they will. I have never been one of those people! If the U.S. does wrong it’s our responsibility to try to rectify it. I also know Hawaiians and as friends I am trying to help them, I hope you are. It’s my nature to try to correct any wrongdoing, especially for a people living in third world conditions in a country that the Creator gave to them. I feel very well about my agenda and myself but since you took my post as some sort of an attack you must not be at peace yourself. I admit I do write with a style to prompt a response. And I usually get what I’m looking for! Thanks
I’m certainly not looking for acceptance by anyone here on this forum and anyone that follows me should get a life of their own because I don’t like standing in lines!
I have seen a lot of great people come and unfortunately go here at saponitown. Some members with their own goals have run off some. I know that Linda can’t dictate what people think but often a little guidance by the founder can make a difference in the direction of things. Like I stated “if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem”. Is this site “pro” NDN or “anti” NDN? I know it is primarily for genealogical and historical research of Indian ancestry.
For those that have tolerated me here for all of these years, thank you. I have sent a lot of people to this forum in the past but feel that I must move on to a more Indian friendly surrounding.
For those of you here that are on a true spiritual journey, I wish you the very best. I will certainly miss reading your posts. You know who you are!
Disclaimer: This is my own opinion and is in no way a representation of any group, clan or tribe.
“This is the first time that I have ever heard anyone say that killing an invader is wrong. Defending your home is wrong?
Invading another country and killing the people is right?”
This is the first time I was exposed to twisting my words to something I did not say as well. You show me where in the above, unedited post, that I said these things. I said nothing of the sort.
What I said was that whites, natives, and every other race has done something right and wrong in history. But I certainly am not going to point fingers at and dis-own any of my ancestors because of it.
Do what you wish, but you are speaking words I never said, nor implied.
Greywolf, please don’t leave, atleast until Stev-o adresess’s some of your concerns. I did understand his statement the same as you. If you leave he looks right! I want to know who’s on the red-road!
I don’t believe I have to address any concerns. Obviously if someone gets upset at what I say it is because it hits a nerve of truth.
“Red Road” is a term no natives use and a word that has been adopted by twinkies, as they call them. Not calling anyone names here, nor do I really care…but if you use these terms like “Red Road” around natives, you are open for getting ripped into.
I talked to my Hawaiian friend and will give you what was said to explain that whatever anyone does is not enough in a little while later tonight.
Steve-o wrote: I don’t believe I have to address any concerns. Obviously if someone gets upset at what I say it is because it hits a nerve of truth.
“Red Road” is a term no natives use and a word that has been adopted by twinkies, as they call them. Not calling anyone names here, nor do I really care…but if you use these terms like “Red Road” around natives, you are open for getting ripped into.
Steve,
I use the term Red Road, because it was sent to me in a blessing many times by a Native friend, whom I respected. It may not be common in your neck of the woods, but that does not mean it holds no meaning for some. No quarrels, just stating my piece. Blessings,
Shirley
sammarroq wrote: Steve,
I use the term Red Road, because it was sent to me in a blessing many times by a Native friend, whom I respected. It may not be common in your neck of the woods, but that does not mean it holds no meaning for some. No quarrels, just stating my piece. Blessings,
Shirley
An addion to my first comment…here is a perfect example of the usage of Red Road…a book for those struggling with alcoholism as well as life in general.
FINALLY! A sobriety, recovery and wellness book especially for Native Americans, written by Native Americans! This new resource follows the teachings of the Native American Medicine Wheel and 12 Step Tradition.
From the book: “Time and again our Elders have said that the 12 Steps of AA are just the same as the principles that our ancestors lived by, with only one change. When we place the 12 Steps in a circle then they come into alignment with the circle teachings that we know from many of our tribal ways. When we think of them in a circle and use them a little differently, then the words will be more familiar to us. This book is about a Red Road, Medicine Wheel Journey to Wellbriety–to become sober and well in a Native American cultural way.”
The Red Road to Wellbriety is a book of healing that is culture-specific to Native Americans, but it may be used by all people. The book includes 12 chapters of cultural information about healing from alcoholism and addictions, including “how-to” information about working the 12 Steps in a Native way. The Red Road to Wellbriety also offers 17 personal recovery stories from Native Americans and others who have used Native culture or a Medicine Wheel and the 12 Steps approach to their own recovery from alcohol and other drugs.
The book also features chapters on healing from ACOA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) behavior, and co-dependency, as well as chapters on strengthening the family and community. The Red Road to Wellbriety is a stand-alone book or it may be used as a companion to White Bison’s Medicine Wheel and the 12 Steps programs for women and for men. It can also be used as a hands-on book for White Bison’s community-based Firestarter’s Healing and Wellbriety Programs.
http://www.whitebison.org/store/store.php?
Historically, Red Road was just a term for being on the war path, it has never been really adapted to mean anything about following the native path. Some may have adopted it, but generally when it is used most recognized groups just roll eyes. The term came into being used more often around the 20th century. I have no issue with anyone using it or whatever, but most often red flags will go up with the recognized tribes when used.
Steve-o wrote: Historically, Red Road was just a term for being on the war path, it has never been really adapted to mean anything about following the native path. Some may have adopted it, but generally when it is used most recognized groups just roll eyes. The term came into being used more often around the 20th century. I have no issue with anyone using it or whatever, but most often red flags will go up with the recognized tribes when used.
Well, I shouldn’t have to worry then, I am not recogniized…lol. 😀
Steve, if I looked at every detail of what offended each group of NA, let alone the rest of the world…well, let’s just say, one could go bonkers.
Do you know how many tribes there are? I am just a mixed-blood, I am a faux paux to many card carriers. I do as my heart leads…Blessings to you
Steve.
Shirley
The intent of my original clumsy question was to bring awareness that, as mixed bloods, we do not have the luxury of hating on whites or any other group….. because we will be hating on our own ancestors. I am what I am. I honor ALL that I am. I ain’t gonna hate on me 😉
Dreaminghawk wrote: The intent of my original clumsy question was to bring awareness that, as mixed bloods, we do not have the luxury of hating on whites or any other group….. because we will be hating on our own ancestors. I am what I am. I honor ALL that I am. I ain’t gonna hate on me 😉
Exactly. It’s probable that at Blue Licks I had Indian and white ancestors shooting at one another. Back in Britain, my mother’s paternal ancestors regularly raided her maternal ancestors. Her paternal ancestors and my dad’s maternal ancestors feuded with one another for centuries on the English-Scottish border. I’ve got Scots and English blood, among many others. So, am I supposed to wake up tomorrow, say to myself, “I feel Scottish today” and proceed to kick my own right butt cheek because that’s the part of me that’s English? It’s the same thing with being mixed Indian and whatever…it does you no good to hate part of yourself. You are who you are, and your ancestry is what it is.
I look at it this way…
If it weren’t for your ancestors, you would not be here. You can’t choose who you are descended from, and those ancestors of mine that were “encroaching” on the natives and were raided by the Shawnee, wound up married into families of NA descent. So apparently neither the natives nor the whites held any resentments over what had happened.
“Steve, if I looked at every detail of what offended each group of NA, let alone the rest of the world…well, let’s just say, one could go bonkers.
Do you know how many tribes there are? I am just a mixed-blood, I am a faux paux to many card carriers. I do as my heart leads…Blessings to you
Steve.”
As my Hawaiian friend said today…
BQ is what messed everything up because it is a government thing, not a native thing…although I do know some have wound up adopting the policy.
She said she didn’t need someone to come and tell her who she was. She said that if President Bush was to walk up and say ” I now recognize you as Hawaiian”, she would say “No S*** Sherlock”. She knows she is Hawaiian and that is all that matters, she doesn’t need to be told…she already knows.
She talked about when she moved to the mainland that the school system asked on paper to state “Race”, and for each of her kids she put down “Native Hawaiian”. Then when it came time for testing once enrolled, her children were labeled “Hispanic”. What was the point really of them even asking in the first place on enrollment forms, then turning around and placing them in the “Hispanic” group? I have no idea, but it happens I suppose. I figure that maybe there is a higher influx of Hispanic than Hawaiian, or maybe the government no longer recognizes Hawaiian as a race since they are now part of the United States. She complained and nothing happened.
She said she wishes the haolies would quit thinking that even she is Mexican. Ha Ha Thankfully she refers to me as her ohana and brother and not a haolie. She said I have native blood so it doesn’t make me one. Ha Ha
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