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Hi everyone I hope it is ok to join in here. I am still new to the site but would like to put in my 2 cents worth.I know there is native american blood in me. I now know it is getting harder and harder to prove which tribe. I don”t really care. I am ME. I really wanted to know more so I could learn why I think as I do and act as I do. I know I am Irish .And I can tell that at some point some of my far off kin kissed the blarney stone! Heck I bet they did it more than once. Just be true to you. In the end you are all you have to blame for your life. This part has nothing to do with what we were talking about but the first time I ever went to a real Native American town it hurt my heart to see the young men out in front of the stores all dressed up in feathers down to the ground dancing. They were trying to get people to stop and shop. For some reason this rubbed me the wrong way. I felt the Indians were a proud people and this was just not right . Well I will stop ranting. Darlene
Darlene i know you are referring to the Eastern Cherokee Nation i been going there for years and being a Western Cherokee it rubbed me the wrong way to.
How ever upon reading the book ” Cherokee Americans” by John R. Finger it brings to light how this started in the early 1900’s i suggest you and anybody that have though about this should read and then go from there.
Cowboy
I just moved the discussion about Gilliams to a thread of its own in the Share Genealogy section so it will be more findable in the future.
Sorry if that creates any confusion.
Linda wrote: I just moved the discussion about Gilliams to a thread of its own in the Share Genealogy section so it will be more findable in the future.
Sorry if that creates any confusion.
Thank you Linda
cowboy wrote: True definition of American Indians gets complicated
Our nation abounds in debates about race, identity, citizenship, ethnicity and nationality. American Indians are part of that debate and many issues in the nation today impact the definition of what constitutes an American Indian in the United States. Many assume that to be an American Indian you must have native lineage alone. Unfortunately, the definition of an American Indian is inherently political. Race, ethnicity and cultural affiliation play a part, but to be considered an Indian you must be a member of a recognized native tribe or nation.
When the first European explorers came to North America they encountered cultural groups of people or tribes. By the time colonists arrived many coastal tribes had been decimated by introduced diseases, and those tribes were loose confederations of people. When European powers began to claim vast tracts of land, their government representatives dealt only with nations which were organized. This recognition of independent nations became the basis for the new government’s definition of an American Indian. That definition holds true today.
In the early 19th century, as manifest destiny became federal policy, the Cherokee Nation sought protection via the federal courts. Through a series of Supreme Court decisions the definition of a tribe was “a domestic dependent nation.” Since then our right to determine our citizenship has remained solely with our government but not without federal involvement. Through the next century the federal government defined our membership through treaties, census lists and blood quantum requirements.
Cherokee Old Settler Descendant
Cowboy
Cowboy; You should give credit for these words to the one who wrote them. These are words of Lynne Harlan posted in the Asheville Citizen Times. She is a member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians. http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20070719095
Dan
I do apologize for not giving credit to her i did try to post the link that it was found but i think she sums it up pretty good.
Cowboy, By no way do I want you to think I judged them for this, I just didn’t understand. This happened about 30 years ago. The last time I was down there I met a sweet young lady who was selling painted stones. She was so nice to me. I also saw a little grey-haired lady that looked so much like my late Mother. I wanted so bad to go up and hug her. But I figured she would think I was crazy! Can you imagine this little 5 foot tall ladys face if a big 5 foot 7 woman came toward her! LoL Darlene
This may or may not apply to the situation you mention.
As we all know, the move toward Red is very popular right now – and some Native leaders are advocating a bit of PR by those who are attempting to walk the Red Road … so much so that, one friend of mine who is a “practicing Cherokee” – to him it has been suggested that he own and occasionally wear a head-dress instead of the traditional turban. The reasoning? The uninitiated are watching – so instead of hindering or blocking their view, give them something familiar to see. After all, not too many folks would recognize a turban as a Native American garment but they would recognize a head-dress in a heartbeat.
The purpose is to help every chest swell with Red Pride – to get them interested, to keep them interested and to continue living the sweet, honest life in tune with Grandfather and Grandmother and in tune with Turtle Island and in tune with all of mankind and all of nature so as to provide a more excellent example to others – thus, turning the masses in favor of the Native agenda and removing some of those dratted pebbles from Red Road.
At least, this is the way I understand it and envision it. Hope it applies … and helps.
I fell sorrow for the “practicing Cherokee” i hope he took a stand for what is right for the tribe not what someone else has suggested the uninitiated will never learn what is and was before the cloth turban there was the scalp-lock i hope he goes that route so those who are watching will learn the truth.
That is one reason the “Old Settlers” split from the eastern nation they were going to live as the tribe had always done they chose to remain hunters not farmers as most of there eastern brothers were doing. Reminds me of the “practicing Cherokee” someone was telling him to give up the hunt and and be like us and be a farmer.
My ancestor’s never gave up who they were and what they have always loved to do they have always went to the mountians our along a stream to find that special tree offer a pray on smoke to the Creator before cutting and making a bow and to become one with it. When i vist different tribes or nations or Powwows what ever i look for the old bow makers sorry to say you do not see many of them these days if you do these are the ones you want to talk to.
Me and my brother continue to make and live as one with the bow something are “Old Settler Ancestor’s” would expect no less from i hope we bring honor to them.
Our gggrandmother is on the 1851 Old Settler Roll–DE-LE-MA Jones AKA. “Goliath” family group (57) her grandmother is on the 1817 Emigration Roll Elizabeth Jones nee Wilkerson she was the daughter of Mollie Wolfe of the Lower Towns.
Many Blessings
Well Cowboy – and thanks for the historical information and personal viewpoint – I could clarify some points of what I presented above – but I feel it is more important to mention that this “suggestion” came from one of the most respected “Chiefs” of the Eastern Cherokee – who is respected all over the country and in many parts of the world – and my friend has absolutely no problems with it and his prior learnings, leanings and commitments have been as a “Western” Cherokee.
For lack of a better term coming to mind, I used the term “practicing Cherokee” – allow me to briefly explain (me? brief?) : He is like me in that he does not know his band/clan, that he was raised white except for a “sort” of ascension rite that his father knew enough to at least attempt thru a third party. He also is sure of his Cherokee roots where I am still trying to figure my legends and prove at least one of them. By “practicing”, I mean that he attempts to live the life and spread the teachings he receives. Outside of that, I should probably not comment more as it would be somewhat invading his privacy … but will repeat that, at this point, he seems to concur with the reasoning and continues to progress towards his adoption into the band and also toward his renaming. I will readily admit that I truly have no clue as to the right or wrong and will certainly note your feelings and information in my head.
I am simply happy to be here – and wish I could be there with you this day – and wish I knew enough to even pick out my rightful symbols, colors, etc because, truthfully, simply being “My Own Indian” is not enough as I remain too white in my knowledge of my blood and practice to claim anything except Grandfather as Grandfather … and to claim you as my Brother if you will allow it.
Wado my friend.
Well, moving this back to the subject that I started this thread with, if ANYONE will make the claim to being a leader of a part of one of our federally recognized tribes, and claim to be a member of such a division of one of our federal tribes, be it a (sub) tribe, nation, band or clan of said tribe, then I want to see the historical documentation on such a claim. I want to read those history books (not written by the group in question) where such a group is noted and documented. I will expect an unbroken history too. One that has not been interupted in at least the last 200 years.
Dan.
For 500 years people from Europe have come to this nation, illegally imposing their laws and standards and way of thinking into us. It is not us who need to be recognized by them, it is they who want to justify 500 years of murder, illegal theft of land, and opression of natives with legal rhetoric from their hypocritically pious system. They have had 500 years to erase and destroy the very evidence we need to prove things legally. So to, with all due respect Dan, and I do understand your point, that is an ambiguous demand to make. They have had 500 years to water down our dna. So should those who find themselves unable to leegally prove their heritage in a US court be robbed of their rights and lands still??? How long and how far should their crimes and ensuing mindset be appeased rather than brought to an end???
George, as a mixed blood, how can you justify the disgust that you feel for the part of you that is white?
Dreaminghawk,
It is not something I seek to justify, as it was part of the atrocities committed against our people. It is something I have learned to live with.
My point is that part of the injustice and damage done to us was to get us to see things, and base our sense of our rights, dignity, rule, and sense of legitimacy from a European or US legal system perspective, rather than from our native perspective. I meant no offense to anyone here. I know these are very sensitive issues with many strong feelings from all sides and many perspectives.
Part of healing as a Blackfoot or mixed or Saponi people, or whatever we are, and being restored spiritually, is to learn to think again like natives with rights and important heritage we should be proud of, rather than as merely hapless victims with no rights or hope, or as only european. To see things accurately from our world view rather than the one imposed on us. To me, that is a critical and key element to maintaining, restoring, and healing our individual lives and culture.
I do not have disgust for white people or political aspirations. I’m a warrior and fighter by nature, and am always hoping and praying for restoration for our people. Most whites living today are victims of what has happened as we are.
The choices their ancestors made were not ones they had control over. I like to believe that if ever asked to or given the oppurtunity to, most of them would do the right things about it all willingly and gladly. Maybe that is naiive. Or maybe they just need the oppurtunity.
I also believe our ancestors demonstrated an acommodating attitude and spiritual life towards others for the most part, and an open and inclusive mentality, not a hostile or exclusive one. In other words ‘how do we all live and work together justly and fairly for all’ mentality rather than ‘this is mine, that’s yours, it’s my territory, you get out’.
I see them as people who sought solutions good for everyone, in spite of the horrors they were experiencing. I do not believe natives hated whites, and neither do I. I do not believe such hatred or disgust for any man was part of our culture or ever should be. I do not believe dispossessing and displacing them as we were is a just solution to their children 7-10 generations later. I trust the Great Spirit will assign leaders in our midst and in theirs that will find just solutions for all in the correct time. I do not believe we are destined to live forever as dispossessed strangers in our own land either.
My family lore is that a small part of my family was Bask. I do not have hatred for them. They were not english, but were a small clan of red and light skinned indigenous from the Pyrinnese Mountains between France and Spain, who have been through very much the same loss of land and things natives here have. They are still fighting for their independence and freedom from Spanish rule. They came here in search of trade relationships and to bring more agricultural benefits, and to gain the trust of locals and the financial position that could give them. They came to help indians and make allies, not to take their land or take over.
I believe they were part of the people coming to help retake the native’s lands and push back the english settlers as was planned at Blackfoot Town in MD. They were willing to risk their lives and go to war for us and beside us. I guess I am lucky that that is my european heritage. So the sense of disgust you described I simply don’t feel. I know others are not so fortunate as me in their mixed heritage and have many other feelings to sort thru.
I think the rule here should be one of understanding and acceptance and welcoming of one another with various viewpoints, descent, and feelings, rather than making groups within the group and creating walls. I believe the Blackfoot way was to accept refugees and others, and build win/win relationships, and heal and bring hope. Just my opinions.
I am sure we all have many strong feelings to sort through about all of this. It is confusing. Confusion was part of the damage. However, we all hold equal value as humans, and equal importance here, and are here to discover and heal together, and hopefully find some light. I cannot justify sins I did not commit.
Are you angry with me over something dreaminghawk? I did not mean to insult anyone in any way, if I did I apologize. I am not entirely sure what the point of your question was, but hope that I answered it.
I want to thank you for your post #29. VERY well said, so very well said that no one has responded. Thanks again. May the Creator bless you with even more wisdom! There’s so little of it these days.
Dreaminghawk, I think that like myself, what Junglegeorge may feel is shame for what his white ancestors have done.
Personally I only claim my NDN ancestry! I do have some European ancestry (I just don’t claim it!), which gives me the deviousness of a viper and this I use this to try to ease my conscience for the wrong that has been done by whomever. I have lobbied for passage of Bills S. 1200, H.R.1328 (IHCIA) and many of the amendments. I have worked hard for the passage of Virginia Indian Tribes Bill and countless others which I can pull the Bill numbers if any here were inclined to help. I also support the Native Hawaiians right to sovereignty. Since Hawaii became a state in 1959 it makes some of you here responsible for US doing to them as we have had done to our ancestors and us. Have any of you helped rectify this injustice? I have done this for years because it is the right thing to do! Do your representatives and Senators know you by your first name? They should! I have helped change votes and get Bill’s passed, just think of what we could change if we all worked together. But only if we’re willing to drop our own personal agendas.
I know that I’ll never benefit from these Bills simply because I will never be able to belong to a federally recognized tribe. But; if I’m not part of the solution, I must be part of the problem. At my age I must be prepared for that final Day of Judgment. Yes, it is a good day for me to die!!! Is it for you?
Disclaimer: This is my own opinion and is in no way a representation of any group, clan or tribe.
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