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I have the file that Virginia Easley DeMarce sent to me. It is a great resource tool and well documented. What I have read of hers is mostly referred to as “mixed or Tri-mixed”
{INTRODUCTION:
This study is limited to the Tennessee Melungeons of Hawkins/Hancock County (with what can be learned specifically about them in the counties from which their ancestors came, and the counties to which members of their families moved). It does not use the term “Melungeon” generically to describe tri-racial or possibly tri-racial settlements in the remainder of Tennessee’s counties, much less all over the Upper South.}
Brenda
Regarding Dalton, I would imagine it is on the list due to it’s connection (as I seem to recall) with the so-called Guineas of West Virginia. Norris and Male also occur there, and have been thrown into the “Melungeon” surname list by the compiler.
Most of the families that can be identified as Melungeon can CLEARLY be traced to points further east, and were NOT in the mountains prior to the general movement west. They were also pretty clearly mixed-race before they arrived in Appalachia, and probably compounded the mixture with some of the remnant Indians they found when they got there.
I have been reading the biography of Alex Stewart, a noted folk artist and craftsman born and raised on Newman’s Ridge in the 1890’s. His comments on the Melungeons are interesting. While he seems to regard the melungeons as a different (from the whites) group ethnically, he clearly talks about many of his Gibson, Goins, and Collins neighbors without any hint that he considers them to be Melungeons. I suspect that there was an economic aspect to being a melungeon, in addition to the genetic one. That is, just being a Goins of mixed ancestry on Newmans Ridge did not automatically make you a Melungeon; being poor as gully dirt, mixed-blood, and living on Newman’s Ridge might have. Even in 1850 the line may not have been a clear-cut one.
Just a thought.
The first use of the term was in the early 1800’s in a church record. I’ll have to look it up, but it seems to have been used as an insult.
1813 Stoney Creek Church minutes, according to Jack Goins Book, “Melungeons and other Pioneer Families”
Most of the families that can be identified as Melungeon can CLEARLY be traced to points further east, and were NOT in the mountains prior to the general movement west.
I take it that would mean that there’s little evidence of the Melungeons deriving from marooned Moraccan’s or whoever, who made it into the mountains before the general British-led settlement occured.
Would you assume someone in Texas, whose parents and grandparents came from KY and NC, and referred to their ancestry as Black Dutch, to be Melungeon? Or is that something altogether different?
Quote >>Regarding Dalton, I would imagine it is on the list due to it’s connection (as I seem to recall) with the so-called Guineas of West Virginia >>>
Thank you, Forest. I can find no evidence they were anything but white in Carroll and Floyd Co Va but they married extensively into surnames which do show more evidence of being mixed and many did migrate west about the same time as some of these other groups. My line stayed in Va.
peace
For whatever it’s worth, here’s my two cents worth.
The terms “Black Dutch” and “Black Irish” were coined in Europe, NOT America.
“Black” Dutch, so called by the fair Dutch, were their darker (relative to the Dutch) Spanish colonizers of the 16th century Hapsburg Empire, and was a derogatory accusation that they were not “real” Dutch. It was a life & death qualifier during the Dutch revolution of the 1600s.
“Black” Irish is even more ancient and were remnants of the Iberian migration to Ireland pre-christian era. Study the history.
But both terms appear to have been misused by mixed blood Indians to pass for white after the 3rd or 4th generation. It really had nothing to do with “Black” as some people today use the term, derogatorially.
Thanks for responding. I am reading Brent Kennedy’s book right now, also Manuel Mira, “The Forgotten Portuguese” and my head is swimming. I descend from the Collins and Oaks that left Kentucky and North Carolina to wind up in Missouri and Oklahoma via Indiana. When I asked my grandmother, a Collins, what our ancestry was, she would look a little strange and say, “Black Dutch”, and I never could find out what that meant. My father was extremely dark, with blue eyes. Many of the things Kennedy writes, ring a familiar bell (pun intended).
I read everything you all post and mostly it is over my head. I appreciate any help or direction anyone offers.
Di and all; I’ve had my bell wrung a time or two also. (Pun intended also.)
I think it is very tempting to be drawn in to what the Melungeon Movement is becoming.
You may have the physical characteristics called out by these groups (as I do), or some of your family surnames may be on their lists (as mine are), or your greatgrandmother claimed to be “Black Irish” (as mine did), or your grandmother still had elements of an old English dialect in her vocabulary (as did mine), or your family may religeously, fanatically claim ties to some Appalacian Indian tribe (as does mine without anyone ever finding out just who the heck you descend from), or your family pictures shockingly display Native American faces even up to the 1960’s (mine did too), or your family may have even lived in Hawkins/ Hancock Counties in Tn. and had Mellungeon families as next door neighbors (as mine appear to have had).
Just because an individual has most of the characterictics called out by people in the developing Mellungeon Movement that does not make that person a Mellungeon.
After saying all of what I’ve said, I am supporting whole heartedly the Native American origins of the Mellungeon people. I have seen the reference to interviews of the Mellungeons of Hancock County Tn. As far as I know they have always said they are Indians.
Dan Akin.
Hello thank you all for your replies, It is great to see that the “flavors of the Day” still have thier “notes’ on solid ground.
I would really like to see though who and how the tribal groups became mis’Id’ed.
I have heard that the Tuckahoe people were declared “white” by the Va, government, at some early date.
I wonder why this happened ?
Also has anyone researched the large pan tribal group that formed along the Va/ NC boarder prior to 1820?
Thanx once again, Tom
Yes, thank you all for your input. I am now also reading an article on the Melungeon movement from Interracial Voice by Jason Adams. Mostly, I like what he is saying. He supports a move toward using the term Metis for not quite white, not quite black and not quite Indian. His emphasis seems to be on the loss of identity rather than the idea of someone wanting to be something other than they are. It was the government that created and enforced the blood quantum mandate, just as it was the people in power that designated this particular group of people as less than on the basis of skin color.
So, I am wondering, what does make a person Melungeon? Is it where a person lives? a certain geneology? It is obviously not a race. All I wanted when I started on this quest, was to figure out where and who I came from. It appears as though there is some hidden agenda in this quest, if I am to judge by the amount of heated feelings I see displayed.
Can anyone explain to me what the agenda is?
It sounds like what Dan is saying is that, in order to be a Melungeon, your family has to have a history of having been called that.
OK. Fair enough. But what if your family has no history, only question marks? I was amazed when I got Col. Oaks letter and family group sheet on my grandmother about 10 years ago. I never knew she had siblings, much less 8 of them. When I was a child, I just accepted what was. Including being beat up and called names that I didn’t understand. There seemed to be a void that was heightened by questions from others about what nationality, race, etc. I was or my dad was. When I did ask, I got the answer I told you- Black Dutch, and I never could find anything about that. Mostly they were vague.
As I have gotten older, I have wanted some kind of connection, roots, you might say. I wanted family and tradition. I felt left out, and I still do, when others talk about their heritage. As I have continued my education, the questions got louder. There were subtle attitudes and behaviors that got passed on and I have wanted to know where they came from.
I am beginning to understand that my grandparents and great grandparents very deliberately gave up who they were in the hopes of giving their children something better than they had, to protect them (me) from prejudice and what we now call marginalization.
Maybe it was not intended to be such, but the running posts on wannabes made me feel as though I were intruding where I do not belong- again. Like the time I got beat up because the neighbor kids thought I was something”other”. I don’t want to presume upon anyone else’s identity, but you should understand that whatever roots I might have had, have been taken from me.
Reading Kennedy’s book, where he talks about being told to just get on with his life, let it go, and he couldn’t- I understand. People have said the same thing to me. What difference does it make? I can’t even answer that now- I just know that it does make a difference to me, to know, to have some understanding of where my family came from and why they had the attitdes that they had.
When I began to make some headway in tracking down my grandmother’s family, I was so excited. I did not care who they were or what race- just to finally have some idea was exhilarating to me. Much of the reception I have got from people I naively expected to welcome me with open arms, has been like a dash of cold water. I am hoping that I am misunderstanding, or that at least someone will take the time to explain why to me.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.:confused:
Di; I have gone through the searching process myself. After leaving a fake Cherokee tribe here in Mo. I was frantic to try and discover my family’s true origins after having been lied to for years. Other people have helped me and tolerated me until I now am calmly searching for the facts. I along with other members of my family have made some good progress and we are looking forward to new and exciting discoveries.
I am positive there is a place for you at Saponi Town. These are very friendly and good people and they are great researchers.
Dan Akin.
Thank you. Tolerance is good and Lord knows I need it. I have heard a little about the sad circumstances in MO with the Sapponi/Cherokee tribe. That is so sad that someone would take advantage. I now understand a rather strange letter I got from Col Oaks about 6 or 7 years ago, warning me not to give information to people who pretended to be Collins. I threw it away and did not correspond with him anymore, but now I am beginning to understand why he was so upset.
Although it would be really cool to find Indian heritage, the cool part of it is knowing where I came from, where I got my dark skin and hair and facial features. People have often asked me what nationality I am and I have had to say I don’t know. For some reason that bothered me.
I will continue to read and search and hopefully be able to contribute to this site.
Thank you for your tolerance and patience with my passion and inexperience.:cool:
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