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BlondeyeLaurie wrote: I compare the term Melungeon to the KY/VA/TN equivalent of “trailer trash”…it strikes me as more of a social demarkation than a genetic earmark.
I probably don’t know enough of the by-now-voluminous literature in which people have pooled their knowledge (or lack thereof) on the origin of the term Melungeon. But in principle, I agree with Laurie’s assessment, it has not typically been a term used to complement someone. In my grandmother’s childhood in the west edge of Nashville, there were only a very few families called Melungeons (this was about 1890). The ones I know about were named Dungey and Green, and both of those families were a little later considered African-American, at least by the 1920s. She told a little anecdote about her older brother having once committed the social gaffe of tipping his hat to Kate Dungey when he passed her, walking on the opposite side of the road (Charlotte Pike), in the fading twilight. (This proper white lady married a guy whose grandfather and father were listed as mulatto in the 1850 census, but I’m sure she didn’t know that, and I doubt if he did either.) Anyway, after she married and moved away in 1893, I doubt if she ever saw another person identified as Melungeon; so that dates the term fairly closely as far as her usage of it is concerned.
In upper east Tennessee and (especially) SW Virginia, I think the term “Ramps” was used more widely or colloquially than “Melungeons,” and with a similar tone of social stigma. I was surprised to discover this morning that it has barely been mentioned on the Saponitown forum. Just as well, I guess; but it may be an indicator of the fact that most of the contributors are not old enough to remember conversations that took place before Melungeon scholarship emerged (in the 1960s, I think). Once there was a literature on the subject, it was about Melungeons (or some other more local terms), not about Ramps.
I never heard the word Ramps used to define a person or people but it is certainly not surprising seeing how easily we apply labels on others who appear different. I would also conclude it would not have been identifying the person or persons in a positive way , since most of us who have had any exposure to Ramps would associate them first of all with smell.
I do remember growing up in the 40’s and early 50’s hearing terms applied to others of different color primarily and knowing that although we certainly appeared to be 100% “white” we were never allowed to call a person of color black, negro, or the “N” word. It was early known that in our home this was a grose violation of our Faith. When I was 4 and 5 years old I was taught to hold a door open for a lady to enter and that meant lady no matter race. One word I remember used by my grandmother and that was “issuelite or issue.” I know now the folk that formed what is now the High Plains Sapponi were identified by this term in those years and now I find it interesting that area is where my mother’s people came from. I talked with Chief Martin about 8 wks back and found him to be a very gracious gentleman and knew things about my family I didn’t even know. We still have no established connection to these folk.
Pappy was speaking in reference to the Melungeon and we have searched far and wide exploring whether someone in our family might have misunderstood and used the term Muskegeon when actually they were identifying themselves as Melungeon. Again, no surnames have connected at this time. My favorite spring food up in them thar hills was the wilted lettuce made with the spring leaf lettuce, onions and real fried meat with the hot greese poured over the lettuce to wilt it. That was one spring food or tonic I could go for but alas that is out now or at least the greese part! Ed
Wow, thanks for bringing this thread back, alot of good information. So these Melungeon were thought to have been here before Jamestown? I have wondered about Spanish or Portugese. My GGGrandmother’s name was Isabelle (Ibby) Rosina Virginia Gibson, and have wondered about its roots or if her parents just liked the name.
Shirley
Ed:
Wilted lettuce salad is connected?
My mother always made that when I was a kid. I made it when I was first married, and we raised a garden.
Techteach
My mom made it too. I’ll ask her if it was an old family recipe.
Regarding the term, “Guinea,” I know some people, on the Mingo e-list, who live in WV and grew up with the term being applied to the “black” people in the region, whether or not they had Native roots, that’s what they were considered there. In the local usage, the families “considered” Indian were either called Mingo or Blackfoot. Dreaminghawk, I can put you in touch with her, if you’d like.
Venusnia, try emailing rosebudsaponi through this site. Look up her name under ‘members,’ that will bring you to a link where you can email her. She’s a Scott and a Rose and has often found the Blackfoot ID among people connected to her family.
Forest Hazel wrote: Regarding Dalton, I would imagine it is on the list due to it’s connection (as I seem to recall) with the so-called Guineas of West Virginia. Norris and Male also occur there, and have been thrown into the “Melungeon” surname list by the compiler.
Most of the families that can be identified as Melungeon can CLEARLY be traced to points further east, and were NOT in the mountains prior to the general movement west. They were also pretty clearly mixed-race before they arrived in Appalachia, and probably compounded the mixture with some of the remnant Indians they found when they got there.
I have been reading the biography of Alex Stewart, a noted folk artist and craftsman born and raised on Newman’s Ridge in the 1890’s. His comments on the Melungeons are interesting. While he seems to regard the melungeons as a different (from the whites) group ethnically, he clearly talks about many of his Gibson, Goins, and Collins neighbors without any hint that he considers them to be Melungeons. I suspect that there was an economic aspect to being a melungeon, in addition to the genetic one. That is, just being a Goins of mixed ancestry on Newmans Ridge did not automatically make you a Melungeon; being poor as gully dirt, mixed-blood, and living on Newman’s Ridge might have. Even in 1850 the line may not have been a clear-cut one.
Just a thought.
I would like to read Stewart’s biography…I will peek around and see if/where it can be purchased.
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