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well to make Ross relationships even more complicated,
well when I asked my great grandma why I had blond hair in a family of quite dark people, because of my fair hair and skin my great grandpa didn’t think I was his granddaughter..
so she told me I was too and explained everyplace in my / her background that had fair or lighter skin or hair.
now she told me that her grandfather was called ‘Golden Ross…’
but her grandfather was Jordon Ross with wife Elizabeth Jane Shoeboots..
now Elizabeth 1st son was who was not a ross by blood only by name , but was called “John Ross ” was kind of infamous in his own way too. it seems. but his real Dad was George Lavender.
Jordon Ross which might be listed as or spelled wrong as (morton) or in william Shoeboots case with the cherokee nation.. he lists a ?morton” in the house hold of Elizabeth Shoeboots around the Drennen years .. either way he Jordon is not the John ‘Golden” Ross’ and “Elizabeth Ross” who was is said to be sister of chief John Ross “head chief of the cherokee” but he or his dad was called Golden also…….. so to say the least I gave up looking for any Ross ancestors or descendants of my ross line . as how can you sort out all of the ‘johns’ and Elizabeth/ Eliiza jane , who all just happen to have with the same nick names and same first names ..
it is just way to confusing and I tried for years to figure it out and remember how everyone might be related if they are .. but I gave up as to who is whom really and what trees are true or real people.
I have no doubt lots of my “ross” relations think they are related to the wrong ” head chief of the cherokee ” and their real’ head chief” cherokee are Attakullakulla and Oconostota and not the John Ross they think it was. , but how can you prove or disprove that kind of stuff out now days?
so I gave up .
Nannanae,
Thank you very much for your reply. Your search was very interesting. I know only
too well why you are frustrated. I have searched records for over 80 Susan Ross
and have not been able to connect any of them. There is always one or two links
missing. Just when I think I’ve looked at all the Susan’s in that time period I find
some more.
I’m currently looking for information on James Ross (the son of Churchill B. Ross)
who was married to Susan McGuire on Dec. 1, 1841 in Henry Co. Ky. That is the
only bit of info I have found so far on these two people. Churchill Ross had 13
children and there are records of him in at least 4 states. This family was very
mobile.
I will just keep searching.
Nannanae,
While searching I found a website with some info on the Shoeboots family. If you
haven’t seen it, thought you might see something interesting there.
The address is:
http://www103.pair.com/adsd/family/mary/richardson/indian-document.html
Shardel;36344 wrote: Nannanae,
While searching I found a website with some info on the Shoeboots family. If you
haven’t seen it, thought you might see something interesting there.
The address is:
http://www103.pair.com/adsd/family/mary/richardson/indian-document.html
thank you
but yes I have already seen it . I am renee there.
‘ Nanna Nae’ as in
‘ grandma Renee’
anyway I was going to be giving them more info here pretty soon, or I will try anyway . but some of the stories was info which I used to try and remember the origins stories I was told. I have such a rotten memory.
anyway for 100+ YEARS people/historian types have been argueing about ‘who was really the
“Chulio” or “Chulioa”?” ,and if it was Dragging Canoe or Shoeboots or Young Canoe! for nearly 100 to 150 of fighting about it.. historians missed completely in all their arguing and “Proofs” of this or that.. they missed completely that Dragging Caneo and Shoeboots were brothers and that both and all could and did use the name ‘Chulio’ or spelling variations/records on it.
I have been so busy with origins stuff and proving science is a clueless ….:mad:…. yet they want to define based on their “proof” of who everyone is, from their knowledge based on their extensive ignorance..:confused:
….. that I have not had time to figure out which stories need to be put on that site there . so his offspring can figure out who he really was. hopefully I find some time soon .
I can’t find hardly any of my great grandma’s ross/shoeboots family either so I suspect I need to put Jordon and elizabeths jane’s ‘ Ross” info as clearly as I can find it on that site also. there is just so many dead ends that it is hard to explain to anyone . like the nick/indian names on the rolls are just guesses.
Like Noble L Ross is one of their sons, but is he the ‘LOTTY’ on the drennen roll ? that would be my best guess but proving it is another story. and Is “morrison ” a dead baby maybe , or the son James middle name? or a husband or son of one of the girls? there is just not enough info to figure it out exact . there is no son first name of “Morrison ross” that I know of or was told of .
and mostly why is Robert twins sisters indian name listed living with/ or staying/ listed with polly Boots family? or is her indian name listed in the margin between the two or something?
it is just crazy and our guberment and or indian guberments want us to figure it all out to “prove ” something with just non sense for records. just scribles for names on papers written by others who didn’t have a clue what to even ask as far what it was they were trying to identify as names in both indian and english or a combo of both .
I gave up on that too.
but i will try and put some better info on my Ross/Shoeboots line there,ok?
Nannanae,
Thank you for posting more information. I will keep checking the other site also. You
have approached the Ross family from a direction that I had not found. Your frustration
in who connects to who is very understandable. I have run into the name problems
in many of the areas I’ve been searching, but when you understand that a lot of the
records were done by the few people who could read and write–they only wrote
down what they heard. There were many different types of accents which caused
them to spell names many different ways. Then there were the people that were
discriminatory against all but the whites that were not very careful in what they
recorded. It all gets very complicated.
Sincerely, hope you don’t give up. I think you have done an excellent job so far.
Shardel;36346 wrote: Nannanae,
Thank you for posting more information. I will keep checking the other site also.
Sincerely, hope you don’t give up. I think you have done an excellent job so far.
well I know my family farely well . but not everyones nicknames or what happens to them during the TOT and civil war years. everybody got lost or dead. 🙁
anyway I will let you know if I find any Susans or
I don’t have all the middle names of mine.
but so far from the top of my head . if you need any more info
Nancy ross born 1835 or so ….don’t know if this is Lizzy’s daughter or a step daughter.
am sure these are hers
I got a katie/catherine ross , may not be a ross (may be full bloods Okiluna Furgeson’s daughter, said to be husband of Lizzy just before the TOT ), born around 1837/38? ( middle name unknown) married ‘White’ ( she had daughter ‘jane white ‘ lost by next census) seen just after civil war seen on census IN )and married Jw Dameron last seen in AR ( logan co?)
Eliza anne born 1848 she is a twin ? never find her after civil war. lost around KY or maybe MO or maybe north texas. red river area.
brothers
1 John (not a ross )( father is probably George Lavander) may have had a baby name of ‘sally’ as in ( sallycookiewalah) or Elzia spelled Ailsey on cherokee pre removal commodities list one is a daughter and one is a son I think. as one sally and one ailsey is on the commodities list with lizzy.
but your guess is as good as mine as to which is the boy and which is the girl).
john dies in Jackson CO AR. has one son maybe two sons different mothers with the named “george”. and daughter Molly is on last census in Jackson co Ar. with son Floyd and daughter ?edna? Wade.
2 James Ross ( middle name unknown )born OH. (???? possibility he dies in the civil war .. like at pea ridge maybe. but either way I lose track of him after civil war?) he is not moving around with his mother or brothers.
3 Noble L Ross dies after last census 1890?/ is living near Katie Dameron and Elizabeth jane in logan? co ar? married a mary (camel/ campbell?)
4 Robert ( f?) a twin born about 1848, boone co KY or around jackson? co OH. signed both sides in the civil war . one time with the cherokee ( mounted rifles?). I know the first time he is too young told to go home(maybe after his brother died? or he is wounded )2- 3 years later signed with IN for the north. was wounded I think at time maybe, but he had a head wound and maleria or TB? according to civil war documents.
has sons with first wife Angeline
1 Bertie ( robert st clair) he has sons Bertie and Elzia also .
2Elzia ?( dies in war hospital in NY state )( I don’t know why they are all in NY state) Elzy sp?
3 Annie ( angeline ) ?
4 Daisy may (may mean like little sister? or sissy?)
and
and 2 wife Jemima Collins daughter of Nancy Zerilda Hopkins and David Collins 1850.
1Katie (?)
2Annie ( ?)
3Clarence L(? lawrence?) is listed on the us guberment/ saponi indian/collins documents.
4Vivian Flora ( my great grandma who told me the stories)
5Suda( lee/lynn) ( means sixth daughter?)
. as Far as Jordon Ross being a “Golden” Ross maybe the cherokee may have called everyone with ‘blond hair’ ” golden”. so who knows if it means anything!
Clarence L Ross and son
if you need any other info and if i can help, just scream! because my ross are every where and get lost just about everywhere too 😛
. it just can’t get anymore confusing can it ?
Nannanae,
You have so much interesting information. So many Rosses make ones head spin.
Many on the information you posted I have not seen before. It is between 1820 and
1870 that many of the ones I am searching for just seem to have disappeared.
It occured to me that maybe I should list some of the surnames on that side of the
family in case you run into any of them in your information. Besides Ross, there are
Pierce, Heldreth, McFarland (McFarlane, McFarlin, MacFarlen), Neal, and so many
more. The trail to most of them seems to end up in SW Virginia-Wythe Co., Smyth
Co., Grayson Co., Bland Co., Tazewell Co.
My great grandmother was still alive when I was a child. I wish I had started my
search while she was still alive. She lived to be 104. My mother and my grandmother
never talked about the ancestors.
Your help is very much appreciated!
my direct line goes through either a Matilda Mcfarland TN b. 1828 ? I think. or an ?Elizabeth?or ? Redman/Redmond who at about 9 or 10 walked the TOT … may have done that with the Ridge party though with the surnames and marriages made and associated I am going to guess that was the case.
someone remembered both those surnames in the family and so did i remember someone talking about both those names …. then that daughter married a Dean. one was mom and one was maybe step mom .
we/ our oldest aunt has done her mtdna to see if we can someday get a match to see which one is the grandma and maybe find/confirm our clan .
but we do have the surnames older than these ladies because they are our gggrandma deans middle names.
and my paternal great grandma the ross/collins said where those lines were related to her as best she knew .
so by dna I tried to get that confirmed before I told my cousins stuff they didn’t need to know.
you know family business ,and closests and and such that it is. 😛
though the/our mcfarland or redman is middle name ” clyne , starr and barker” up past which ever one is our grandma. so far no dna matches to either name.
and there is a dna match to Aneal 😮
.. is that a ‘NEAL’? I don’t know!.. I sure thought it was a joke.
I guess it is not a joke.:p
Nannanae,
My grandfather was a McFarland. My grandmother was a Ross. I have researched
the McFarland side back to a James B. McFarland married to Christiana (nobody is
quite sure of her maiden name). Then a brick wall at James B.-goes back no further.
However it turns out James B. is a relative because he adopted my gg grandfather,
Jacob McFarland (his birth surname was Burris). There are also some Neals
adopted by Jacob, but they are relatives of another McFarland. (This is where
there are many closets and nobody ever talked about any of them.)
My great grandfather, John Wesley Ross has listed on his death certificate mother,
Susan J. Ross. I also have found his marriage record. It says mother, Susan J. Ross,
father unknown. John Wesley Ross married Alice Virginia Pierce. Alice Virginia’s
parents were Andrew Jackson Pierce and Ellen Heldreth. Andrew Jackson Pierce’s
parents were Andrew Jackson Pierce and Susan Ross.
At this point I am not sure if the two Susans are the same person or two
different people. My research tells me they are probably two different people.
I am trying to find the David and Betsy Ross in Halifax Co. census that were
living next door to Susan Pierce with another member of her family.
A Susan J. Ross in the 1870 Nebraska census for Plattsmouth in Cass Co. is another person I have been tracing. The census lists John Ross 42 Hotel Keeper (that would
be the Platte Valley House) born Ohio. Susan J. Ross 45, Hannah 19, Charles 16 (those
3 born Ohio), Wm. E. 14, and Alba L. 7. The last two born IN. This is the John Ross,
Chief of the Cherokee who was captured by Colonel Furnas and sent to Washington
DC. The census does not give family relationships, but I do not think Susan was his
wife, I think she was his sister.
Also I am intrigued by a couple of names you posted yesterday. You mentioned a
katie/catherine ross with a daughter Jane. In a death certificate I have for a
Susan Ross that died in Grayson Co. her mother’s name is listed as Cherine which
I have thought might be Catherine. Also I think from other names in the family
Susan J. Ross’s middle name was Jane. Everytime I find more people I find more
questions. Considering the elusive nature of old records every possibility must
be followed.
Sorry this has gotten so long, but there is just soooooo much research.
Thank you again for all your help.
Shardel;36352 wrote: Nannanae,
My grandfather was a McFarland. My grandmother was a Ross. I have researched
the McFarland side back to a James B. McFarland married to Christiana (nobody is
quite sure of her maiden name). Then a brick wall at James B.-goes back no further.
However it turns out James B. is a relative because he adopted my gg grandfather,
Jacob McFarland (his birth surname was Burris). There are also some Neals
adopted by Jacob, but they are relatives of another McFarland. (This is where
there are many closets and nobody ever talked about any of them.)
My great grandfather, John Wesley Ross has listed on his death certificate mother,
Susan J. Ross. I also have found his marriage record. It says mother, Susan J. Ross,
father unknown. John Wesley Ross married Alice Virginia Pierce. Alice Virginia’s
parents were Andrew Jackson Pierce and Ellen Heldreth. Andrew Jackson Pierce’s
parents were Andrew Jackson Pierce and Susan Ross.
At this point I am not sure if the two Susans are the same person or two
different people. My research tells me they are probably two different people.
I am trying to find the David and Betsy Ross in Halifax Co. census that were
living next door to Susan Pierce with another member of her family.
A Susan J. Ross in the 1870 Nebraska census for Plattsmouth in Cass Co. is another person I have been tracing. The census lists John Ross 42 Hotel Keeper (that would
be the Platte Valley House) born Ohio. Susan J. Ross 45, Hannah 19, Charles 16 (those
3 born Ohio), Wm. E. 14, and Alba L. 7. The last two born IN. This is the John Ross,
Chief of the Cherokee who was captured by Colonel Furnas and sent to Washington
DC. The census does not give family relationships, but I do not think Susan was his
wife, I think she was his sister.
Also I am intrigued by a couple of names you posted yesterday. You mentioned a
katie/catherine ross with a daughter Jane. In a death certificate I have for a
Susan Ross that died in Grayson Co. her mother’s name is listed as Cherine which
I have thought might be Catherine. Also I think from other names in the family
Susan J. Ross’s middle name was Jane. Everytime I find more people I find more
questions. Considering the elusive nature of old records every possibility must
be followed.
Sorry this has gotten so long, but there is just soooooo much research.
Thank you again for all your help.
I think ours is very different ages. so that you can find mine on a census . I will provide the info..
but off the top of my head .
ok I lose jane In switzerland( or jackson) co IN. or around Lawrenceburg IN , my gg grandpa robert signs with the civil war there the second time.
anyway they are around the Miami river for most of the civil war years.
she/jane is born during the civil war, we would have to look at a census to know exactly what year. she is she is like 6- 7 in 1770 census I think . jane is daughter of katie and to unknown male named “white” as she is listed as ‘Jane white’ in the 1770 census. but now that I think about it robert and john .. move near the white river/ near jackson and Black Rock in AR. is that odd? but Robert actually works on the White River bridge project.. is that odd? or is she really a jane “white”. that should be enough info to locate them on a censuses. to confirm dates and locations and such.
jane is not with the family in the 1880 census I think Robert Ross is in switzerland co with his wife annie/angeline’s family. but no jane ross or jane white there that I can find. now elizabeth jane and katie I think are in AR.. with jw dameron in that census or 1880 or 1890 census.
I do not think it is same jane as yours .
I haven’t traced Jordon ross , the father of these at all,
he is born about 1790’s . didnt’ even know where to start. all I know is that he had land, quit a bit of it in OHIO or maybe around boone co ky or so.. . and that shoeboots sister and some other cherokee indians is buried on his land when the
Ridge party went through there and had to stop for a lonmg while because so many were sick. they going to the moravian mission in PA or on the ohio someplace.
yes Ridge party is the
‘cherokee who floated the ohio river everyone tries to deny that that had happened but it was the Ridge party who did that . they went to get household goods/stuff to build houses with in PA or something like that . I don’t know where they got off the ohio /missouri river though to come towards IT .. one of these days I want to go down the river in a boat just to see, what they saw.
that is about all I know for sure about Jordon ross . besides the cherokee called him or his dad ‘golden’ too. thats about all I know for sure.. I don’t suspect any amount of indian in Jordon in spite of location and a few other things though . not because of the blond hair but because but because he was very ‘rich’ like a merchant maybe too and or rich in land. I think. just my head has it he is white.
yes I will need more info from you about the Mcfarlands later, that is interesting stuff there.
“”Then a brick wall at James B.-goes back no further.
“However it turns out James B. is a relative because he adopted my gg grandfather,
Jacob McFarland (his birth surname was Burris). There are also some Neals
adopted by Jacob, but they are relatives of another McFarland. (This is where
there are many closets and nobody ever talked about any of them.)”
and mostly interesting in what year these adoptions were !!!! now that potential adoptions mess sure could get interesting if it is why we got neals?/aneal’s and mcfarlands/redman with pretty close matching mtdna. and why everyone remembers who is whom differently in our family.
the good new is there is not as many Mcfarlands as their is Ross’s ! 😉 so that will make it a little easier!!!! yahooooo 😎
I haven’t done much research in mcfarlands , because we were not 100% sure which lady is the grandma. those TOT loses/adoptions being what it were in those ages. it is not like there is real records of stuff. right now everything is about a guess.
Nannanae,
There may be less McFarlands than Ross, but they are quite difficult to trace. The
thing I have found is many families that were raising other relatives children. Also
I have found siblings that were bound out using the last name of the person they
were bound to in some census and then using their birth names in other census.
Also Jacob (Burris) McFarland and his brother Lorenzo Dow McFarland used their
birth name of Burris on their marriage records, but used the name of McFarland in
the census. The Neal that was adopted by Jacob McFarland was the son of
Mary McFarland.
Some other surnames that are connected to the McFarland family in SW Va. are
Litz, Coley, Tilton, Perry, Sanders, and Hanshew.
One thing I have found is there were many very large families both in the Ross
and McFarland lines. Many of the children named their children the same names.
Also in some cases if a child died, the next child was named exactly the same
thing.
There are many of these families that moved to Nebraska about the same time in
the late 1800s. Also many of the people that are related had them same occupations.
Many were farmers. In the McFarlands there were a large number that were
carpenters. Among the Ross women many were seamstresses. The one thing
my grandmother and my mother did say was that they were related to Betsy Ross.
However I have never been able to find that connection. It’s for certain that
Besty Ross (who made the flag) and her husband had no children. So they
would have had to been related by marriage on the Ross side or by a sibling
on the Griscom side.
Shardel;36354 wrote: Nannanae,
wow
well I am sure you just explained why I went to do mtdna hoping for a short cut and maybe find mtdna matches with our great grandma Deans known middle names.
you see my great grandma was very sick from strokes and thus couldnt’ talk when I was old enough to ask a decent and relevant question, I tried to ask her what clan etc.. she couldn’t answer.
for your laugh for the day then I will end this.
I found my Ross’s pdq really, considering it’s name is Ross.
now shoeboots line was harder because of all of the picture imagery of my childhood mind to overcome.. cockadoodledo and peacocks and chickens and ‘puss and boots’, turtles and funniest one was the ‘ Hawaiian punch’ guy ..(you know the little Hawaiian punch guy with a Big “POW” grandma would say …you outta hullahulla but that is what I heard… no matter what she said.. that was what was in my poor child’s head heard .. every time she said Attacullaculla I did the hula then “POW right in the kisser”… yep I had to figure it out and get past that sort of childhood imagery to figure out the stories . anyway I had that Hawaiian guy in my head and not till I actually read the word
ATTA. CULLA. CULLA. did it hit me! boy I came out of my chair and started doing the hula then “POW right in the kisser”!
. because those big indians words.. I didn’t read them I just looked at them and didn’t even try and sound them out as I had no guess how to sound them out.
!
oh gee the flying sticks and just lots of crazy imagery of things and concepts children can just barely grasp. and why for about 10 years I named everyone of my animals “boots” if they had boots or not. a jet black cat named “boots” a horse, a dog and a few more .. now I think about all the poor people who were told things when they were little about their ancestors by their grandma’s but because their ancestors aren’t on nearly every single page of most every indian record in the east , they won’t find that “Pow right in the kisser” word. so I feel bad for them and pray for them that they remember and then hold on to it and pass down .
I probably forgot more than I remember but I think I sorted some of it out ok.
but I knew alot of the stories from my ross/collins side and none from my direct maternal and maternal fathers side. that is why that side is so hard for me. ggrandma had diabetis very bad and had lots of strokes and couldn’t talk when I was old enough to ask..
trying to trace her side .. those are when I realized of all the things I can do ok.. well I am not a genealogist of any sort :p NOPE!
but if I can help I will try but I am not genealogist ok! don’t expect much,, nope a wing and prayer or ten prayers , or ten thousand prayers .. that kind of gal. I figure He knows because He was there.
I pray you get a “pow right in the kisser” moment too OK!
Nannanae,
Got a giggle from your last post. There was something much more profound in it.
The reason I have been so determined in my search is medical. On my mothers
side of the family there is a blood clotting problem (causes heart attacks and strokes) that seems to be inherited. One doctor is seriously researching this inherited problem
trying to find a cure.
Thank you again. If you have any questions about the McFarlands in the future
feel free to ask. I’m not a genealogist either. I’ve been learning as I go along.
well we have some strange “indian type” health issues in our line.
from lupus to diabetis and heart disease. I got the lupus like and heart disease stuff.
but I just stumbled upon a concept that has helped me so much .
I was thinking about how the old ones ate and then read about the’ HUNZA diet’
now I pretty much just eat these things
http://www.vitaminb17.org/foods.htm
if I don’t eat these that meal and eat a meat or like pasta meal .. I eat a few(up 5 or 6 sometimes build up to more, then back down) apricot or 1or two loquat seed or one peach seed.
my son and I both have had a very bad skin condition ,it breaks out , gets hard and cracks and bleed on our hands fingers frozen , we couldn ‘t move our hands from this ..and now both can move our hands for the first time in years, it got a little better when I started taking hawthorn for my heart, well that gave us some clues..
something was effecting our connective tissue/ or collagen maybe . I had my heart issues that started at 11( paracarditis)30 X WITH NEAR HEART ATTACKS 5 or 6 of these where so much fluid was inflamed around my heart that the fluid was crushing it ,which is the inflammation of the lining of my heart. probably from a Lupus like disease caused by metal amalgam IN MY TEETH THAT THEY ALSO PUT THERE AT 11, SURPRIZE SURPRIZE .
yes THEY JUST FIGURED OUT mercury settles AT LEAST in the connective tissues around your heart . SO INFLAMMATORY DISEASE OF SOME KIND IS AN ISSUE NOW.
THEN had a heart attack 2 years ago. after ALL I BEEN THROUGH I hate doctors and their drugs too. so been trying to find something that works for me/us.
but this kind of Hunza diet/huntergather diet is working for me!
but I feel better all the time and my cholesterol and blood pressure is going down slowly !!!!!! I have a huge need for berries of all things and can’t get enough them. I monitor my BP pretty closely .and avoid salt .
I do not know if this will help you and your line or not but eating more fruits with it’s pits/seeds and veggies/greens and nuts and whole grains and roots well usually don’t hurt anyone
I think B 17 has a anti-salt effect. I think salt is the killer/ager of man and came into our world at the flood because before that the salt water and salt “firmament” was above us insulating us from space and the radioactivity and why were once giants with two rows of teeth designed to chew forever and 6 fingers because we are de -evolving . not the other way nope we are not getting better we are getting worse.. . and most drugs are some form of sodium broke down somehow. thus doctors are really only offering just more dieing.
so pray about this and do some searches .
I dont’ do doctors or their drugs, because they poison me and am sick as a dog with them. I hate them with a passion if you can’t tell.
so I don’t know what to tell you about your doctors advice. but do what you need to do .
personally I would have already dumped all of them.
you do what you need to do ok.
i’m just letting you know what has helped me and mine so far !
.
Nannanae
It has ceased to amaze me when I see health issues like yours. I have run into them
many times in researching genealogy in the Ross and McFarlane lines. There is also
diabetes, lupus, heart disease and severe allergies. I really think this doctors research
is on the right track. She saved my life a few years ago.
Hope your health continues to improve.
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