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This news came over one of the list I am on and we were told to pass it on….Congradulations to those this helps.
Well, the Sizemore results have prompted a lot of queries. I will BEGIN answering them. Please forward copies to interested cousins, as I cannot keep up with the volume.
First of all, the sample was collected from John A. Sizemore and here is his descent:
John, I hope this is alright with you to post this information! I am leaving out living persons’ data.
Edward Jesse SIZEMORE “E.J.” was born on 28 Mar 1939 in Clay County, West Virginia. He died on 20 Sep 1975 in Martinsburg,
Berkley County, West Virginia from Static line Parachute Jump and was buried on 24 Sep 1975 in Private Cemetery Clay County,
West Virginia.
John Alexander SIZEMORE was born on 9 Apr 1865 in Clay County, West Virginia. He died in 1944 in Clay County, West Virginia.
John married Thelma DAVIS on 6 Nov 1926 in Clay County, West Virginia.
Jesse John SIZEMORE was born in Oct 1840 in Ashe County, North Carolina. He died on 10 Feb 1927 in Clay County, West
Virginia. Jesse married Nancy Jane WALKER on 18 May 1864.
Hiram SIZEMORE was born in 1807 in Ashe County, North Carolina. He died on 30 Nov 1870 in Bentree, Clay County, West
Virginia. Hiram married Elizabeth Jane JENKINS.
Owen SIZEMORE was born in 1793 in Wilkes, North Carolina. He died in 1879 in Clay County, West Virginia. Owen married
Rebecca Ann ANDERSON.
George Edward SIZEMORE was born about 1750 in Old Lunenberg County, Virginia. He died in 1820 in Ashe County, North
Carolina and was buried in , Laurel Springs, Allegheny York, North Carolina. George married Anna Elizabeth HART.
Edward SIZEMORE “Old Ned” was born about 1725 in Hanover County, Virginia. He died about 1780 in Montgomery County,
Virginia. Old Ned married Elizabeth Rachel JACKSON about 1748.
William SIZEMORE was born in 1671 in London, England. He died in 1740 in Lunenburg County, Virginia. William married Hart
JACKSON
The test was a 10 marker y-chromosome test done by Family Tree DNA of Houston, one of the leading genealogical-genetic testing labs. You can read about what the test does and what results it produces by going to their website at http://www.familytreedna.com Beth Hirschman and I have used Family Tree DNA from the beginning and if anyone wants to go this route and have their DNA tested I recommend them heartily because of their convenient login privacy and reports.
I will post more later.
Honor to your lodge,
Donald Panther-Yates
Sizemore descendant
Hello Brenda,
What does the Sizemore DNA test tell when it comes to where the Indian ancestry comes from, since the Sizemore name is English? I assume it is on the Walker side. Somewhere in my genealogy I remember seeing the Sizemore name, but they may not be a direct ancestor, but the Walker name is one of my direct family names. Thanks for the information.
CoheeLady
I believe this DNA testing is establishing that some folks are related to each other, not testing specifically for native ancestry. I don’t think there is any DNA testing that could pinpoint our SE tribes, not at this point, unless people were willing to drill into some of the Ancestor’s molars from archeological digs, then relationship testing could be done. But that’s a big can of worms.
Linda,
I have asked if the state of Va. had done any DNA tests on the remains from a site that was right next to my grandmother’s home in the mountains. These are the remains that were given to the Monacan’s. The state didn’t do testing, nor did they take a sample.
CoheeLady
I’ve talked to the archeologist who did the recovery of the Sauratown lady on the Dan River and he would be interested in working with someone who thought they might be related. It’s controversial, but he’s that kind of guy. He feels like the reason he was led to her was to help descendants reclaim some culture and identity and he wants to see it happen.
The archeos have taken a lot of heat about removing and retaining these remains and I’ve seen them acting gun shy. It does seem a shame to put these remains back into the ground without this information. Once in a lifetime opportunity. Once in many lifetimes.
Linda,
I agree with you, as it is a once in a lifetime opportunity. The remains I was speaking about had been held for about 100 years, if I’m not mistaken. I wish they could have at least put them to rest in their original burial location! That to me would have been the right thing to do. It’s crazy how archeologist’s will do so much work, but keep it to themselves, while saying they are doing their work so we can understand how people lived in the past. How can we learn from their work if they keep it under lock & key? Why must remains be stored in cardboard boxes, this is in no way respecting the deceased. Tell your archeologist friend that there is no controversy in collecting DNA from deceased American Indians that have already been taken from their resting place. Why just leave them on a shelf in a box with a number on it? What good does that do us, none at all. Thank you for your response. Take care & God bless.
CoheeLady
Brenda,
Thank you very much for posting the DNA results on that line of Sizemore’s. ( My Line ) George Edward & Anna Hart were my 5th gen grt grandparents. Their son Edward B & Annie B Baldwin, their daughter Mahala Sizemore married Abijah Baldwin. ggg
grndparents. Then from there my line went to Cliftons and then to Ware.
Thanks again for posting the info.
Well once you know if you are of Native american descent then what , If you know already from your families oral history and from records and your own families features then what will you do with this information?
perhaps finding Saraus relatives may prove something but what of all of those folks that are displaced.
I can’t see this doing a lot of good, except maybe if the party is trying to define themselves for other purposes.
Very very puzzeling!
If the people who believe that they are related to her are not believed by the rest of the world and IF they’d like to prove that they are, then they could possibly prove that. Those tests would not be proving Indian blood per se, they’d be proving kinship.
I would think that would also put them in a position legally to claim the remains and put them to rest in a way they felt was appropriate. It would be sidestepping the legal issues around native blood, and putting it into the common law context concerning kinship and family.
Thank you, Shirley. Had not seen this before.
I’ve talked to the archeologist who did the recovery of the Sauratown lady on the Dan River and he would be interested in working with someone who thought they might be related. It’s controversial, but he’s that kind of guy. He feels like the reason he was led to her was to help descendants reclaim some culture and identity and he wants to see it happen
.
Is he still looking for people to talk with? All I have is “suspected maybe” & strong feelings, but would be interested in talking to him. My family has lived a stone’s throw from 3 Saura villages/digs (that I know about) for longer than we can document some of us.
Also, I think it’s interesting that the area of these villages and dig sites overlaps the “Goinstown” area.
There are folks still around here/there from at least 2 other tribes, as well. Or so we think. ;~)
FYI, in keeping with the topic of this thread, that does include some Sizemores (who claim Cherokee descent).
There’s a fellow from that line who is a bit of a traveling historian. Can try to figure out some contact info if anybody is interested. His name is Doug Belcher.
This page has been posted before, but it might be good to have the link in this thread.
http://www.freestateofpatrick.com/nah.htm
Little tidbit from it:
“The smooth, sand tempered, burnished pottery that was made by the Saura Indians is identical to the vessels being made today by the Catawba Indians of South Carolina. This is called Oldtown Pottery.”
Catawba appear to have been connected to Saura. Catawba also connected to Saponi. Saponi connected to Saura, then?
Also want to clarify, this desc is not entirely accurate, the links I gave in another post are directly to the Sizemore DNA project. The native American marker in the Y DNA which is male, he therefore could not be from an English Sizemore. It is the Sizemore that is carrying Q as the Y DNA haplotype. This is my family line. Also, although they filed the Cherokee apps they were more likely Catawaba due to the fact of the area they were in and the fact that they were Sc Royalists. They therefore could be of Saura desc. As I spoke with Linda before when I was able to see the picture of the Saura woman the feeling was overwhelming. There has been alot of research done in this area by some good researchers and some of those families that later become Melugeons of Tennessee came from this area and had land along this river.
See : http://www.geocities.com/ourmelungeons/joannesmalungeons.html
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~craingen/DNAindex.html
Thanks for bringing this back. It just goes to show how much can change when new info is found in a few short years.
There has been alot of research done in this area by some good researchers and some of those families that later become Melugeons of Tennessee came from this area and had land along this river.
Melungeon, when you say “this area” and “this river”, are you referring to the area and river in your link, or the Dan/Smith/Mayo River area??
I, too, get a powerful feeling when looking at the Sauratown woman photos. If you’re ever in these parts, be sure to visit the Saura mountains. There’s a spot where Stokes and Patrick County meet, where you can see the Saura and the Blue Ridge. Quite beautiful.
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