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I thought the point raised was kind of simple — what the theory is to connect the records of these two John Colins.
I read your message on John Collins of Bertie Co. being the John Collins arrested in the 26 Saponi’s of Orange Co. Va 1742 court case. What documentation do you have that says he and Saponi John Collins are one in the same?
All this other data is making my head swim, to tell the truth, it doesn’t seem like it would be that hard to summarize the argument. Can you put it in a nutshell, Scott? Also, I’m curious how this John Collins who got in a scrape for terrorizing a white man relates to the John Collins who got in trouble for burning a field that I’ve heard about.
Brenda, most of those Collins listed in that timeline are listed as white. Are they on the list because you all question that they’re white, or were you all just trying to be completely inclusive on that, and list all known Collins?
Mecou, The way I have understood it was that John was arrested in Orange County Virginia, left there and was arrested in Brunswick County in 1728? for the same thing. I think this may have been where I saw the John Jr. listed. This stuff makes my head swim too. You have to understand that the Collins families are numerous and most are related in some way or other. These particular families in VA and N.C. who ended up going into TN, KY, Indiana, IL, and MO. They are directly linked up with the Melungeon groups of those areas and the going theory is that the Saponi and Melungeons either are the same people or merged very early on.?????
So I have read, so I have been told. Bila huk
So, it is believed these two John Collins, Saponi, sightings relate to the same person, but that this is a matter of interpretation. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a problem with believing a likely scenario, I’d just like us to always remain very clear that this is a matter of belief and not hard evidence. And twenty of us believing this is still not a point of “fact,” if such things even exist. Perhaps there is a lot of additional circumstantial evidence that adds a great deal more weight, and I’d love to learn about that.
Maybe what I’m trying to say is, I’d like to see our thrust be to “learn” more about this ancestry, as opposed to “proving” anything about it. We know in our hearts what’s there, the data just helps us connect with it, it isn’t IT. It’s like a false idol.
Mecou, this post is basically for Brenda. I would like to appoligize if have mispoken or in any way offended you. I am not the best of organizers of information and over the years I have seen alot of data concerning our family. I have been very unorganized in the way I have proceeded with some of the research and at times have not had the oppurtunity to copy everything I have seen word for word or xerox. It is a hard task to understand all the dynamics involved in migration, the way our government kept records, interpreting those records, and discerning in whom to trust in regards to valid information or motive factors. I have become confused over the years to know just how to proceed and who to believe concerning my families heritage. I trust my close immediate families experiences the most for they are what I know and grew up with. For everyone else outside my close family I do not know them and therefore have no reason to believe or disbelieve those findings. My best subjects are art, religion, and cultural study. I am not a genealogist or a scholarly historian. If any information I have posted is incorrect please accept my deepest appologies as I am working to organize my information while at the same time researching our culture. I may have too many irons in fire sort of thing. Bila huk oca hok ne de wa ha, bila huk oho!
symbol meaning perplexed….
Linda and Barry, I know this thread is old but I just read it. Why did you guys only ask the lighter-hued people if they had Indian blood at that NAACP event? I am wondering about regional differences and opinions regarding Black Indians. Many people we see with the lightest hues in Indian circles typically are more Red than African and those with darker hues are typically 50% or less (of course, individual appearances belying race and ethnicity apply). I just wish we all could get past color and embrace ethnicity. It’s too bad our people are still in hiding. By all this, I mean our ancestors who ignore their heritages and live unfulfilled lives.
The reason was simple. A lady walked in looking like a carbon copy of my mother-in-law, we introduced ourselves to her and talked to her and the people around her, who were mainly her relations. I guess there was just an excuse to bring up the subject because of the resemblance.
Sorry if it seemed like we were saying that we only consider lighter skinner people as Indian descendants. We don’t. We’re well aware of how meaningless appearance is in the question of descent. It’s just that in a crowd of people appearances are all you have to go by, and do give, I think, a sense of the proportion of Indian descent that applies to the whole population. Like in Barry’s family album about a third of the people who are born each generation look decidedly Indian, so we assume the family’s roots must be about a third. That’s the way we meant that.
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