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Thanks for jumping into the fray, Elkriver. I’m sure there are many things that are done at East coast pow wows that would raise eyebrows in Oklahoma. The culture that’s taken hold here just is what it is. As was mentioned, there are ZERO federally recognized tribes in Virginia, even though the oldest reservation in the US, the Pamunkey, is a tribe that was part of the Powhatan confederation that greeted the first settlers at Jamestown.
There’s a huge amount of insecurity, in my opinion, running in all kinds of directions in the southeast. Many isolate communities survived here, many in secrecy, and as they’ve come forward, there’s an incredible amount of jostling going on, with one group feeling more legitimate than the next. It’s quite phenomenal. Personally, I find much of it rather difficult to put up with. So, I would say, the norms you’re accustomed to are probably a good deal more ‘normal’ than what is happening here.
I had my twelve year old son, who looks relatively white, scurried out of the dance arena while his younger brother, who looks much more Indian, danced away. I found the twelve year old sobbing in the family van. He’s never danced again. As I said, it’s a very insecure atmosphere, an emotion which readily devolves into hostilty.
There there are the pow wow circuits, there’s the A-list of pow wows of state-recognized tribes, who won’t have anything to do with the B-list pow wows of non-state recognized tribes and groups. The emcee in question was prominent on the B-list, so I’d guess the strictures about being in regalia are a response to wanting to look ‘respectable’ and serious. Being blasted so much as ‘wannabes’ there’d be the impulse to look legitimate.
Nonetheless, I do believe in the Seven Generations. I think that there are so many of us starting to dance in the arena because there are those seven generations behind us inviting us, and getting something of a well-deserved hoot out of seeing us fight over them the way we are. They have it coming.
As for the Cayuga connection, we’ve been a bit curious about what might be remembered about the Tutelo adoptees that were taken in, and with the thread you found from a few years back, curiosity if any of our folks made there way out west to where you are.
Hi Elkriver, I appreciate your comments. I’ve powwowed in the northwest on and off since I was little, and my first impression of east coast powwows were similar to what I’m hearing from you, especially about dancing without regalia. But I have since learned that different tribes have adopted the plains powwow tradition to their own ways.
East coast powwows would definitely raise some eyebrows in the northwest, but the opposite would also be true. Powwows also aren’t traditional to the northwest, but they have been here long enough to get worked into tradition. And it looks like east coast tribes are also forming their own unique powwow traditions as well.
For instance, I was caught off guard that east coast people dance clockwise, at home I dance counter clockwise. Turns out as far as I can tell in the entire nation, only Oregon and a few spots of Washington and Idaho dance counter clockwise. A few years ago some guests from Oklahoma came to a local rez powwow. Some traditional folks were appalled that the guests danced the “wrong” way (clockwise), and didn’t know how to Owl dance properly. And some local folks had no idea what Southern style was. Also, coastal tribes here will powwow in their traditional regalia, which includes barefeet. And its not rare to see women, even elders, sitting at the drum.
The list of differences can go one, but my point is, each area has their own protocols. The evolving nature of the powwow just shows us that these cultures are all still alive and thriving.
The evolving nature of the powwow just shows us that these cultures are all still alive and thriving.
Exactly right. If everything were calcified and uniform it would be evidence of a dead culture.
I’m thoroughly enjoying this thread. I’ve so often wondered on this topic of accepted pow-wow behavior pertaining to the southeast as compared to the rest of the country.
Elkriver, it is good you are here. Could you ask around your people if anyone has any recollection of stories related to the Tutelo or other southeast people joining them and if they know of any traditions or language relating to the same?
Linda, I’m so sorry to hear of your son’s experience, and thank you for your honest assessment of the scene in the area.
I keep wondering why going for federal recognition is justification for excluding blood relatives who live in different areas of the country. I understand a group had to keep living together and practicing some self-identity as Indian as separate from the general population and that this core base would be the recognized nation. But my understanding of recognized tribes is each has the freedom to decide who they will allow to be members and what and which benefits such as voting rights, medical care, college tuition help, and a share of profits from tribal corporations etc. There are different classifications of members. Members can be allowed to join from off the reservations (some have no reservations), but even as members off the rez can be denied any of the mentioned benefits. It is absurd for any group of Indian descendants to try to say none of their blood relatives have moved away, thinking this will get them federal recognition, or to deny tribal identity to those who have moved away. Just the fact the core group exists should be enough shouldn’t it? It seems the more people related to the core group, who have kept contact, who have maintained their Indian idenity and intermarried regardless of where they live now would help with recognition. I understand that any Indian nation wants to preserve their “culture”, mannerisms, attitudes, and manners, as in what is polite and socially acceptable and what is not. I can’t see where having a classification of membership for those living out of the area would jeopardize their recognition or how allowing them to dance would.
That said, with the Omaha, not everyone and anyone of their own nation can enter the circle for special dances. The individual wishing to take part in the dancing must acquire that right by being sponsored by a member of the tribe and honored at a ceremony and dinner where many valuable items are given to the guests by the family or sponsor to those who come to honor the individual and only after that are they allowed to participate. These items add to the group wealth of the nation and can be redistributed as gifts at other dances and get togethers such as handgames. The right to dance must be earned in this manner. By the way, the Omaha have been able to retain much of their culture because, while losing much land, they still live on their original land.
The Omaha and Ponca were once together and their languages are all but identical. The Omaha say they had the first Hethuska, pow-wow. Given that they say they were once in the east by at a large body of water and they are of the siouan language group, I think it might be adventitious to consider their cultural values.
There are people who come to what are termed intertribal pow-wows (though few tribes are represented) here in Nebraska in regalia, families with all members who are light skinned with blond or red hair and other families who are obviously heavily of African-American decent who dance many dances. They are not members of local tribes and I’m not aware they belong to other tribes. It has been said by some Omaha that these people shouldn’t enter the circle without the proper sponsorship and ceremony. Doing this is against the social norms and good manners of local Indian culture, very shocking and rude. Again, like mentioned by others here, they should only be dancing a few dances when the public is specially invited. When attending an Indian event, Indian cultural values should be respected just as when attending say a high school graduation ceremony or church, you don’t get up and dance or sing or speak out of the normal procedure of expected ceremony. Doing so there could get you arrested for disturbing the peace. I consider it a great honor that they open their events to the public. I would hate to lose this opportunity should they need to close the events to preserve their culture.
That’s the conservative view, based on local miswest standards. If you consider yourself to be of a particular people should you be able to dance special dances? If doing so brings you the disrespect of the local people that needs to be weighed against any benefit. I think the rules of the sponsoring people need to be followed and sponsor your own pow-wow where you set the rules and can dance as you please.
beeleaf post#25 While I think there would probably be a few folks who’d LOVE for us to show up in what our ancestors wore on a typical pre-contact summer day, we would most likely be arrested.
Kinda teasing and kinda not 😉 :p 🙂 ; Does all of this mean we females can’t have traditional dance regalia consisting of a flesh-colored upper body stocking, large white beaded necklaces, a very modest woven fringed skirt, and bare feet anywhere across the country? I’ve seen this dress discussed on the forum before. Mmm, would I appear locally in the Midwest dressed like this? I might in hot weather if I added a loose fitting mantle. I stand to be corrected, but I don’t recall ever seeing a male with a bare chest at a pow-wow here which I see in photos from the southeast, I think.
I realize bringing this up could incite vast differences of extreme opinions all of which are welcome; but no personal attacks or condemnation please.
This has turned into a very interesting thread. Thanks to Linda and Spilleddi for the additional insight and pow-wow experience.
Linda, I’m sorry to hear about your son’s experience. It reflects one of my biggest fears, even though I have seen fairer skin in the arena. It’s too bad that ignorance is sometimes in charge. I hope your son can heal from that experience. I would be honored to dance with him.
I don’t know about the Seven Generations, but what you describe is familiar.
Wachinika, thanks for your comments and ideas. Can you clarify what you mean by “special dances”?
The Omaha way sounds beautiful. If those were our traditions, I’m sure we would be glad to follow them. I expected to need to do something like that, and was willing, but it was not required. That’s why it gets confusing to read about traditions that are not part of the SE way of doing things.
beeleaf,
By special I meant any other than the one’s invited by the MC for the public to join, such as the Jingle Dress, Women’s and Men’s Traditional, Grass Dance, Men’s Fancy Dance etc. I guess I don’t know the qualifications to register for these events as card or no card. I just thought it might be interesting for people at this site to know that with the Omaha there is this special process to follow before any of them can dance the specialized dances.
I have only been to 4 pow-wows and the last being 3 years ago so I’m far from all knowing. But another difference I observe is I’ve never been to one where an admission or gate fee was charged. I’m thinking perhaps because there is a special pow-wow arena at the Indian Center that is supported by tax dollars and others have been on University property. Also so much poverty abounds here admission fees would exclude many. I think perhaps there might be entry fees for the different events or dances. There are cash prize awards to the winners of dance events. There is always a Blanket Dance, which the public is invited to enter, where you place money on the blanket to help with the travel expenses of the MC, the Drum Group, special entertainment or a special benefit noted.
Also, on at least one day of the pow-wow the sponsoring group offers a public dinner at no charge for all in attendance including the public. This is a corn soup made with beef or buffalo and canned hominy, fry bread, and a dessert, one time by the Lakota a plum sauce. Another matter of etiquette involves food…for starters; the traditional societies are “holistic”, being no separation of religion, government, social position, life’s work, etc. Everything is sacred…everything…especially food. So when you are offered food you must take it even if you can’t eat it you take it and take it home with you. To refuse food offered to you is the utmost insult and taboo. Yes, arguments could be made about that but it’s not up for a vote…it’s tradition. The Omaha have clans and each clan historically had a duty to perform, a responsibility to the tribe to serve and a taboo, something they couldn’t do. In modern times here off the reservation, the specific clans now perform modern adapted duties. I think of this here on the forum every time Mousini serves up her birthday cakes because one of the clans now has the duty of cutting the cake at dinners at the Indian Center.
Population is much sparser out this way and the number of tribes. It seems there are less pow-wows in a year as in a month out your way.
As people brought up in a dominant American society I can see people who post to this site are judging Indian cultural rules by American standards. There was and to varying degrees still are Indian Values that are separate and distinct and have nothing to do with our constitutional rights, civil rights legislation, or parliamentary procedure, but with deep, deep-seated tradition that existed before American government and the Bill of Rights were a gleam in the founding father’s eyes. Rather than personal rights, there are a lot of personal duties, obligations and protocol.
From afar it looks like there are varying degrees of surviving traditional tribal values at play out that way. I imagine the peoples newer to establishing get-togethers are modeling them on those of neighboring tribes who’ve been at it all along or the national pow-wow circuit. While these “rules” can be hard to deal with, if a person looks deeper, it may be those rules that are the culture that you are seeking. There were very few personal freedoms in traditional culture.
Placing these traditional values against current eastern practices, I can in no way understand why the color of your hair or skin is a factor. While I described families that appear white and black dancing here, they have not been asked to leave. And I question their exclusionary practices having anything to do with them gaining Federal Recognition. If there are tangible examples of this logic I’d like to hear it.
I am also thoroughly enjoying and laughing at the thread on the forum on “cards”. I definitely think many in the tribes have bought into the governments game way too far and are helping in their own extinction by so doing.
I just want to mention that any reference to a body stocking was a question I raised regarding re-enactments, not pow wows. I was interested in re-enactments about four or five years ago and thought it challenging that no one had explored the issue of how to dress as an historic Virginia Indian woman. I got a lot of ducking and dodging from reenactors promoting the “Pocohontas” one shoulder dress as a solution to the problem. I thought it might be more informative to wear the apron over a body stocking, but was told that lycra would never go over in a purist re-enactment environment. Still, I thought it would make a better point in educating the public as to how things were. Since then I’ve seen the forensic reconstruction of the Saratown woman and have no doubts that during the cooler months of the year, our ladies were certainly covered head to toe in leather.
I knew some reenactors who were doing demonstrations in the winter bare-legged. They didn’t dare put on more clothes because there’s no documentation of more clothing. That’s always bothered me. How officious, to suggest that people don’t have enough sense to get dressed in cold weather and promote that slur to the public, all in the name of faithfullness to documentation.
I just returned from DC with a book on women’s dress from an exhibit at the museum which I did not have time to visit (I picked this up at a different museum.). Unfortunately, while featuring beautiful dress, it is mostly western.
Techteach
I try to find online photos from pow-wows around your area. I think I saw a woman with an above the knee leather fringed skirt slightly higher on the sides very much resembling the traditional apron shape with a waist length, open-sleeved, loose-fitting top. If she wasn’t barefoot, there definately were no leggings. I’m one of those that has a hard time keeping even sandals on in the summer. I need a mother figure to keep telling me to put my shoes on.🙂
teachtech, that book might not be that far off with what Linda just brought up about Saratown Woman. I need to get a camera to share with you all the nice dresses that hang in our historical society. It sounds like your trip to Pine Ridge was once again very rewarding. I’m happy for you.
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