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Hi Yosi,
You may want to follow up with someone who belongs to the Haliwa-Saponi Tribe in relation to Haliwa-Saponi lineages.
I believe Fannie Richardson b.1880 may be a Richardson/Bass descendant of John Richardson b.1770 and Sarah Bass b.1777.
Some forum topics related to that line:
peace
-MarcThat’s a good question. The lines with family history of Native ancestry that marry in to my Harrell include Linthicum, Irwin, and Tucker. Harrell is definitely a surname on Rick Haithcock’s Saponi list.
The European lines that marry in come to the colonies in the early 1600s, so they are certainly there early enough to marry into Nations closer to the coast than the Piedmont Saponi/Siouan. The Mayo that came over on the Mayflower, and the Dyer line of Quaker martyr Mary Barrett Dyer are two in my tree.
Irwin is definitely a surname on Saponi lists. But that name came into my tree via a second marriage, not by blood. There are a lot of multiple marriages and half-siblings in this group. Tucker is listed in Saponi/Siouan surname lists but as Nansemond. This is the same Tucker line that former VP Dan Quayle’s wife descends from I believe. Linthicum I have just encountered descendants here on SaponiTown who say it married into Native lines, but not specific to which Nation.
Mary Harrell/Harrold in my line is in early Bardstown KY. Some trees show her born in Bertie NC, some say born in Bardstown. There are no records, but it is pretty unlikely she was born there, it’s too early. I think that was just someone’s guess. She married Henry Cotton there in 1787. A good portion of that 1780s Bardstown group have Saponi/Siouan surnames.
In my tree, Mary Harrell’s granddaughter marries into a Marshel/Marshall line that I believe is fully European. This one goes way back too, also descending from the Van Etten’s who were farmer in Manhattan in the early 1600s. That is not the usual pattern. Saponi/Siouan lines typically marry for many successive generations up to present day.
Her great-granddaughters line definitely marries into a Saponi/Siouan line. A line that I share with Linda Carter and marries into the Dillon’s – probably the same as Brenda Collins Dillon. But before that it is hard to say.
I am a Harrell and Jones descendant and have connected to others on those lines through SaponiTown.
My Jones line married into the Smith line from Southwestern VA / Southern WV.
They went through Clinton County OH to Grant County IN.The Harrell/Harrold line was one that was in the early Bardstown KY area with several other Saponi surnames in the 1780s.
They were later in Johnson County IN.These lines (in my tree and all the other connected trees) are hard to trace before the late 1700s. My Harrell line may have been in Bertie County NC. The lines they marry into come from further North – Stafford/Loudon County VA area for Harrell (before Loudon County was formed).
In the case of Jones, they were said to be at Fort Germanna – Culpepper County.
I don’t recognize the other surnames from VA, but I have not looked in detail at the extended families there because of how difficult they are to trace.
On the 1810 Bardstown census (when my Harrell descendent is still there – married to Cotton) there is a Saunders, a Melton and a Lane.
https://kykinfolk.com/nelson/census/1810SKIndex.html
BBPress is the software that runs the forum. There is a time limit on how long a post can be edited for. Posting a new message is the easiest way to put new information.
I encountered this line recently in an Ancestry.com family tree. The tree (and others) has Erasmus West Jones marrying Rachel Penn (Penn is a surname on Rick Haithcock’s list of Saponi/Tutelo/Catawba names), and their daughter Angeline Jones (1832-1916) marrying Eliphalet Augustus Trowbridge (1832-1899).
There is a picture for Angeline Jones Trowbridge posted by ShirleyTurner1998
I am not familiar with this particular Jones line, there is not much to go on. I am familiar with the Trowbridge line from Morris NJ she marries into though. I have cousins who descend from this line that marry into my Jones line in Indiana:
Barton W S Trowbridge (1881-1947) who marries Sarah Margaret Riley (1887-1973). Sarah Riley is the daughter of Nancy Brower (1847-1923). I descend from Nancy’s sister Barbara Brower (1855-1915) who married Joseph Oscar Smith (1850-1930). Joseph O. Smith is the grandson of Massa Jones (my 5g-grandmother) who is a Siouan descendant.
Hi horcgal,
Do you see the edit button on your posts when you are logged in? We have been working on the editing functions for the site.
I’m not familiar with your specific lines, but I have seen the Taliaferro surname in several posts on SaponiTown. Have you tried searching that? It is a common naming pattern in our group to give surnames as first or middle name to children to keep the name alive. Certainly there are Native ancestors from our group whose descendants have a present-day identity of both black and white passing.
I know what you mean by the “strange middle name”. My gg-grandfather has a similarly structured name, Dora MCS Smith. He mostly went by Dora M Smith, his full name was Dora Moses Cornelius Skinner Smith. The GB as George Burkett reminds of the CS as Cornelius Skinner in his name. I would think it is referring to someone by that name, but I have not yet been able to verify that to my satisfaction.
Not sure if any of that helps?
-Marc
Hi tl842,
Welcome to SaponiTown. Are you familiar with the Cherokee Vann line? As in the Vann Cherokee Cabin. As in Chief James Vann (1762-1809). I am not of Cherokee descent, but am connected to the associated Hughes line by marriage through my Waters ancestors. This is a thread about this that mentions Langston’s as well: https://saponitown.com/topic/waters-newberry-sc-vann-cherokee-cabin/
Have you looked for a connection of your Nancy Anne Vann Langston to this line?
Not sure if she is the same “Anne Vann Langston” mentioned in this thread? https://saponitown.com/topic/i-am-descended-amonsoquath-tribe/
I see have seen the Langston surname mentioned in Pamunkey threads:
If you search the forum for “Langston” you can find all the threads. If you search “Vann” you will get lots of results but they include words with ‘vann’ in them like Fluvanna County VA. So you have to dig a bit more.
Hope that helps.
-MarcOther surnames (surnames known to be used by Siouan descendants in bold):
Abbott
Anderson
Austin
Aydelott
Bass
Baumgart
Beatty
Beauchamp
Beck
Blaine
Burdette
Burnett
Chancellor
Chew
Collins
Cooper
Copeland
Craig
Crofts
Cross
Curry
Daugherty
Davis
Deffendoll
Deter
Dimmett
Doughty
Elkins
Fithian
Frost
Gatwood
Godbey
Goodwin
Gray
Griffith
Grose
Gryder
Guernsey
Harger
Harris
Henson
Hess
Hicks
Hoffman
Hoover
Hopkins
Houchins
Hull
Hunley
Hurt
Hutchin
Jones
Kellems
Kelsey
Kolley
Lance
Lane
Lange
Long
Martin
Matheus
Matthews
McClellan
McGillem
McMurtry
Metcalf
Moore
Murphy
Papadopolous
Parke
Parker
Peters
Pope
Posey
Potter
Powers
Price
Raibourn
Redman
Rhea
Rice
Ringer
Ringo
Ritchey
Roy
Ruckman
Ruppel
Sandusky
Saulmon
Schmitt
Schofield
Selby
Sertel
Singer
Sizemore
Small
Smith
Spang
Stinson
Strickland
Sutton
Teavault
Thorne
Tincher
Underhill
Veit
Walker
Walton
Whitehouse
Wiggins
Wilhite
WilkersonTechTeach has made several posts here about the Blackfoot Cemetery in Pike County IN. Given my family’s history in Indiana, I’ve looked at in detail at that cemetery and who rests there. Although none of my direct ancestors are in Pike or Gibson Counties, almost all of mine started in Randolph and Wayne counties and moved West and North.
TechTeach has posted about tracing Marvel and Prettyman lines from Blackfoot Town DE to the Blackfoot Cemetery in Indiana.
One user posted about their English line buried there
This thread is about the Ricketts line
This is a thread about the cemetery
She has also posted about the surnames in the Blackfoot Cemetery https://saponitown.com/topic/traylortraillour-lines/
The Skinner surname is one that caught my attention because it was one of three middle names of my grandmother’s grandfather, who passed our Blackfoot oral history. It seems history is sometimes passed through these lines by preserving surnames as middle names or sometimes first names. Years ago I started an analysis of the surnames in the Blackfoot Cemetery. Your reply motivated me to finish it this morning. These are about 900 interments in the Blackfoot Cemetery and over 200 surnames if you include maiden names. These are the top 100 surnames (3 or more ancestors):
Name Total
Mason 121
Thompson 39
Skinner 31
Allman/Allmon/Almon 29
Cash 26
Wade 26
Beatty 25
Fleener 22
Julian 22
Coleman 21
Yager/Yeager 20
O’Neal 19
Dyer 16
LeMasters 14
Jordan 14
Couts 13
Ricketts 13
Riddle 13
Minnis 13
Owens 13
Simpson 13
Thiering 12
Green\Greene 11
Allen 10
Cato 10
Webster 9
Wilder 9
Roger\Rogers 9
Johnson 9
Coe 8
Manning 8
Bolin 8
English 8
McConnell 8
Williams 8
Grubb 8
Oliver 8
Dersch 7
Ferguson 7
Gieselman 7
Thurman 7
Riester 7
Spencer 7
Claridge 7
France 6
McCrary 6
Nixon 6
Rowland 6
Stocker 6
Harbin\Hardin 6
McGregor 6
Taylor 6
Faries 6
Kinder 6
Miller 6
Wilson 6
Bryant 5
Chansler 5
Denton 5
McCormack/McCormick 5
Burnett 5
Fella 5
McQueary 5
Perry 5
Reed 5
Steele 5
Carter 5
Mabrey 4
Polk 4
Pollock 4
Roach 4
Roeder 4
Runyan\Runyon 4
Alley 4
Doerner\Dorner 4
Richardson 4
Riley 4
Gentry 4
Blackford 3
Duncan 3
Edrington 3
Hamilton 3
McKnight 3
Montgomery 3
Pancake 3
Pipes 3
Quick 3
Ragle 3
Reister 3
Russell 3
Shelton 3
Shoultz 3
Stuckey 3
Watkins 3
Whitney 3
Baize 3
Burch 3
Corn 3
Crooks 3
Martin 3
Nossett 3
Black 3Sapony Church AKA Sappony Church AKA Sappony Episcopal Church in McKenney, Dinwiddie County VA
from https://www.archinform.net/projekte/49356.htm Sappony Branch arises about a mile east of the present town of McKenney on Highway Number 1, south of the town of Dinwiddie. Near this point was built in 1727 Old Sappony Church, where Protestant Episcopal services still are held. About a mile south of the old church, on a slight elevation on the east side of the road, stands a two story residence formerly occupied by Gardner Ledbetter (1786-1866), a great grandson of the original Richard and wife Hanna. https://www.seekingmyroots.com/members/files/G004304.pdf
Sappony Meeting House AKA Sappony Baptist Church AKA Sappony Primitive Baptist Church in Suusex County on Concord Sappony Rd near Sappony Creek
from https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=18852from Distant Voices As Heard From The Water’s Edge
https://duplin.lostsoulsgenealogy.com/family/bone.pdfThe formal establishment of the church had followed the founding of a fellowship, because on Dec. 12, 1801, Edward Ballard had given the Elder’s use of the land “where the Sappona meeting House now stands” – for as long as they “shall keep or cause to be kept up on said land a house for the worship of God*”
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John and Sarah “Sally” Winstead Poland (Polland) were members of the Falls of Tar River Baptist Church, and after August 17, 1804 members of the Sappony Primitive Baptist as was Elizabeth Winstead Bone, wife of John.
Williamson Poland’s wife, Mary was a member of Sappony as was Elizabeth Poland Joyner and her husband John. Attendance at this church proved to be a real family affair.
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Sappony. six miles south of Nashville, was established in 1804 by 26 members dismissed by letter from The Falls of The Tar River Baptist Church The church was constituted on August 17, 1804 by the following twenty-six members:
Elder Jordan Sherrod
Edward Ballard – (John Bone’s close friend. Nelson Bone’s father-in-law)
Mary Polland – (John Bone’s daughter)
Jane Sherrod
John Vick – (Elizabeth Winstead Bone’s brother-in-law)
Susie Vick – (Joseph Winstead’s daughter)
(Elizabeth Winstead Bone’s sister)
Elizabeth Bone – (John’s wife. Nelson’s mother)
Nathan Joyner
Nancy Joyner
John Polland – (Elizabeth Winstead Bone’s brother-in-law)
Sally Polland – (Elizabeth Winstead Bone’s sister)
John Joyner – (John Polland’s son-in-law)
Elizabeth Joyner – (John Poland daughter)
Lucy Bottoms
Sarah Bofer
Samuel Hunt
Rhoda Hunt
Lewis Joyner
Josiah Melton
Martha Melton
Henry Atkinson
Grace Edwards
Annie Hambleton
Christian Knight
William Dawes
Joiner Venos
Listing provided by J. B. Williams. Pastor.——-
On October 3, 1832. Nelson Bone, son-in-law of the late Edward Ballard conveyed to Granbeny Vick and Jethro Harrell in behalf of the United Baptist Church at Sappony Meeting House, a parcel of three acres on the road leading from Atkinson’s bridge to the bridge across Sappony Creek near Jacob Barnes’ at the Meeting House…
——-
Nelson Served as Justice of Peace in 1837, 1851-1855. and 1857. Nelson’s wife died in the 1820s, he married a second time, to Niccy Batchelor who died in 1865. There was no issue of the second marriage. Nelson died in July of 1866
Photographed By Bernard Fisher, May 9, 2009One strategy I also use is researching the least common surnames/variants first. It is less work to trace a name like Canada (a Kennedy variant) than Smith or Jones.
For example I had a discussion with Rick Haithcock years ago and he told me a series of names that were together at Fort Christanna, and after it closed, together in NC. But Canada was the only surname in that group that was less common.
Later I was able to trace a specific Canada ancestor to the same time, place and Monthly Meeting in Indiana as my family. Looking on the census from that County in Indiana I saw the other surnames that were associated in NC. But if I had been trying to search just that list of surnames it would have been very hard to link the group in NC to the one in IN. It was much easier to trace that one ancestor with a relatively uncommon name.
The Eastern Siouan diaspora is an endogamous community. It can be hard to identify specific lines more than seeing all the connections to the larger community.
In terms of DNA matches, you could create groups by family surname to help cull them down. I have groups created by surnames on my mother’s mother’s side and my mother’s father’s side. I also use the notes section to reference matches with a specific ancestor in their tree. Often I can use those to see that all or most of my matches to descendants of a specific ancestor are on a certain line of my tree.
For example I have ‘Old Ned’ in notes for descendants of Old Ned Sizemore here, and of the matches I do have in a surname group – they are all on the ‘Indiana Jones Smith” side of my tree:
So this suggests to me the side of my tree that my relation to Old Ned Sizemore is on is my mother’s mother’s mother Inez Louise Smith. I was able to build a reliable DNA matching group for her because we have multiple samples on multiple lines of her descendants. Me, my sister, my mother, my uncle, my 2nd cousin 1x removed, two second cousins 2x removed. Even when I see different surname groups, there always seems to be one that has way more matches than the others.