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Our people took to the mountains because they knew there they would have shelter, food, and be free. The mountain was a beautiful place with running water and all the food they would need. Today many places in the mountains remain untouched and beautiful.
As for the bow and arrow. In my History of the Spencer Family it tells of James Spencer born 1784 along the Greenbrier River. At age 12 his father and a group of men went on a hunt. James was left in the camp to look after things. When the men returned to camp empty handed they found young James skinning a fine deer that he had killed earlier that day with his “bow and arrow”. That would make it 1796.
Brenda
Vance,
Thank you. The way you were just talking about being assimilated and going back and forth between the two, not really fitting in, sounds like me! And I know we’ll have a heck of a time pulling out the old image and shining it up to look like it did way back when, will be pretty close to impossible, so I’m, thinking if we can have bits of what we were and weave them into the threads of a new….”quilt” that represents everything our ancestors went through, who THEY were and who WE are then perhaps if there’s another realm of being in the afterlife then they can finally sigh and smile and say, “O.k, not what it was, but look how hard they’re trying.” And so if it’s goofy, or smarmy, or polly anna,:) Well that’s me!:) But I do understand what you’re saying I think and I appreciate where you’re coming from.;) I want to make sure you know I really mean that and I have never pushed aside any of your thoughts or feelings on any matter. You’re a very intelligent and prominant piece of our community and your input means the world to me for that reason and just because I really like you a lot!:) 🙂 AND DON’T YOU FORGET IT!!:D
Bill is awsome for his work and you are awsome for yours, as is Tom and Techteach and Linda and Brenda and everyone who comes here with even a hint of input. I look up to you Vance!
🙂 I guess I’m mushied out, now I have ta’ go to a silly little Christmas Party down at the cafe’. The kids are relying on me to bring their shrimp cocktail! And they’re going to have a parade of lights! They’ve dressed their cars up with Christmas lights charged off the batteries of their cars and boy, how long is the main street of Bailey……800 yards? They’re so excited! I know, P.O.S, or what ever it is, P.S.T? S.O.T? Love & Light, Lynella.:D
Brenda,
Thank you, that’s awsome. I can just see the little guy sitting there proud as proud can be that the grown guys are just as proud of him because they’re half starved! That’s a good story. I like it. Love & Light, Lynella.:)
When we first talked of this, I imagined something like the symbol on the dollar bill, with the clenched arrows. Doesn’t that come from the Six Nations?
For our purpose, something similar would represent the unity of the three ethnicities that participate on this forum.
Techteach
Techteach — I wasn’t here when this topic was first brought up, so I was hesitant to speak up until Tom asked me to. I’m sure it’ll be great however it turns out.
Brenda — I read American State Papers, Indian Affairs part 1 (covering from about 1785 to 1800, more or less) from beginning to end, in all over 800 pages. I’ve started on vol. 2, covering from about 1800 to 1820 or so (I forget the exact years). From about 1774 or thereabout Dragging Canoe, McGilvray (Creek Chief) and others called “Northwards Indians” in htose papers the most of whom were Shawnee, but others were included in these “Northwards” also. Many of these Indians lived in the Chickamauga towns on the Tennessee River near present day Chattanooga, Tn. Most of the “Northwards” were in Ohio, tho, it seems. But before the Chickamauga went to war they always went down to Pensacola, Fla for ammunition. Their wars lasted until they ran out of ammunition, then they’d get whipped and sign a treaty for peace, always losing land with each treaty. These Cherokee wars lasted until 1794. That same year the Shawnee and their allies (Miami, Kickapoo, Lenape, Winebago, Sac & Fox, Wea and others) signed the Greenville Treaty that same year, ending hostilities. There was a small fraction of the Creek (Red Sticks) that had an uprising 20 years later.
But in all these wars ending in 1794, these Indians native to the region between the Appalachians and Mississippi River used rifles, often as advanced as those the Europeans used.
Thanks Brenda, for that story — I liked it very much. It shows that some people had not forgotten the earlier technology by that late a timeframe.
Lynella, thanks for yor comments — they are greatly appreciated.
vance
Vance:
I hope you did not think I was criticizing your suggestion. In fact, I have wondered, that since some have been told that the term “Blackfoot” arose from wearing black beaver moccasins, if that ought not be included. I have tended to think that this might not be true about the moccasins, since another tribe, (Pottawatamie??? – memory faulty) was named for their type of moccasin. This would give a nod to your idea, since those going west would have adopted some of the frontier habits.
Techteach
Techteach,
🙂 I think that’s a good idea! And boy, I love my moccasins, all 6 pairs! Love & Light, Lynella.
Oops, I said that wrong, I think. I believe that the story about moccasins might be true, since this is the case with another tribe.
Techteach
Techteach —
Don’t worry about that.
What have you heard about black beaver moccasins? That sounds like an interesting idea.
vance
Below is interesting trivia —
speaking of “Black Beaver” moccasins —
The link below mentions a Delaware Indian named ‘Black Beaver” — some of the locations it describes I know well — the Washita River, the Arbuckles, North Fork o’ the Red (just 10 or 15 miles from where I live) et cetera. They aren’t too far away and are in the Old Chickasaw Nation not far from where my great grandparents lived in the late 1880s. Lynella, you mentioned somehting about Mountain Men — this “Black Beaver” might pass as an Indian Mountain Man from what it says about him. From the photo of him, he sure reminds me of what dad looked like.
http://www.chickasawhistory.com/FTA1.htm
The winter of 1850 was spent in Camp Arbuckle, located as above stated, and about a mile south of the river. The soldiers (Company D of the Fifth Infantry) lived in their tents until December, but were meanwhile engaged in erecting rude cabin barracks, with puncheon floors, and chimneys of the same material, but daubed with clay. The main barracks was a long house two hundred feet by twenty-five, with bunks built in. Four separate huts were built for the officers. One of these cabins was occupied by Captain Marcy and his wife. Among the officers was Lieutenant Joseph Updegraff, who afterwards rose to the rank of major, and who is referred to in one of General Marcy’s delightful “Border Reminiscences” as “General Up-to-Snuff.” Nearly all the work of construction was done by the soldiers with the aid of a few carpenters.
The winter passed without many incidents of note. Once they were visited by a band of wild Indians. One of the chiefs was very much pleased with Mrs. Marcy, and made a proposition to the Captain for an exchange of wives, to his great amusement. There was an abundance of game in the country at this time, and the soldiers were kept well supplied by Captain Marcy and Dr. Glisan. The bill of fare for Christmas dinner, 1850, would sound tempting to any epicure of today. It included such items as bear meat, buffalo tongue, venison, prairie hen, wild turkey, goose, duck, quail and pigeon. A winter sport in time of idleness was horse racing, using as steeds the half-wild ponies so plentiful on the plains.
A band of Delaware Indians under the leadership of the famous guide, Black Beaver, lived in the vicinity. These Indians took possession of the old camp buildings when the troops left for the permanent fort the following spring. Black Beaver had trapped and hunted on all the important streams in the West, even to the headwaters of the Columbia, and his services as a guide were much in demand. He had accompanied Captain Marcy on the trip to California, and the latter had always found the Delaware to be “brave, reliable and competent.” Like many Indians – and some white men – Black Beaver was rather proud of his travels and his superior knowledge. On one occasion, in conversation with a Comanche from the plains, Black Beaver was telling some of the remarkable things he had seen and heard. Captain Marcy, who happened to be present, suggested that he tell the Comanche about the recently invented telegraph–how a man in New York could stand at one end of a wire, tap it a few times, and ask his friend in New Orleans what he had eaten for breakfast; and that in a few minutes back would come the answer, “Ham and eggs.” This was too much for the credulity of Black Beaver, who said to Marcy, “I ‘spect you try to fool me now, Captain; maybe so you lie.”
The move to the new location was made in April 1851. Already almost every officer and man in the company had been ill with malarial fever, which gave an added reason for the change. Previous to evacuating Camp Arbuckle, Lieutenant Updegraff and Dr. Glisan went down and made a careful report on the topography of the proposed site, especially from the standpoint of sanitation and health. The location was carefully chosen on the slopes of the Arbuckle Mountains (these were so named from the fort), at an elevation of five hundred feet above the Washita River, and four miles from that stream, near Wild Horse Creek. A never failing water supply was furnished by a limpid spring that gushed from the mountain side with power enough to run a mill, Dr. Glisan said. This spring still flows from the mountains, but like so many others, has lost much of its volume since the forests have been cut away and the fields reduced to cultivation. The fort received its name from the veteran General Matthew Arbuckle, who had recently died of the cholera at Fort Smith.
here’s his picture —
http://www.chickasawhistory.com/Beaver.htm
Vance,
😎 That is way awsome! He looks familiar! What a cool story that is! You sure are good at finding this stuff!:D He really does look familiar though??????? Thank you so much, Vance. Love & Light, Lynella.
V & L
He looks familiar to me too. He looks like he could be my relative.
Techteach
PS: Lynella – check out the Ricketts again posting. I posted stuff for you and Kerry.
There a couple of observations I’d like to mention.
First, I remember in one old story dad told about his ancestors when they lived in the Chickasaw Nation and he mentioned the phrase “Wild Indians”. I once sent a copy of dad’s family story to a Chickasaw historian and asked about that phrase “Wild Indians” — and I got the reply that it was a common term and was used to distinguish the “Civilized Indians” — meaning more westernized or progressive — from those living as they always had. This article used the term “Wild Indians”.
The second observation, and I think I mentioned it before, is that there is a federally recognized Delaware tribe called “Delaware Tribe of Western Oklahoma” and its headquarters is in Adadarko, Oklahoma. I think I mentioned once I had no idea how Deleware ended up in Western Oklahoma, a woodlands people living in the Plains. Well this “Black Beaver” fellow was with a band of Delaware in Western Oklahoma in about 1850. So I bet his descendants were some of those who make up that Delaware Tribe up in Anadarko, Caddo County, Oklahoma.
So those people wondered and migrated from the East Coast all the way to the Southern Plains and all that time, they managed to survive and maintained their tribal structure, language, and culture. I think that is a tribute to their desire to survive and maintain their identity as a race of men.
vance
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