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This is a fascinating thread. Anything new with this research?
I grew up in Henry County, with relatives from Patrick Co (PCVA), Stokes, Rockingham, Surry, etc. Some of my relatives lived near Goins families, and married them. The Peters Creek area is in both states. Realizing that has helped me to find some of my bouncing relatives on census.
Interestingly (to us Collins peeps), on the Carolina side of Peters Creek is a Collinstown. Across the border, one of the towns where I lived in Henry County was Collinsville.
I must say, as I look through marriage, census, and land records, I sure do see a lot of the same familiar names that you guys are hunting.
Hi Beeleaf,
I’ve been away from the computer for a while. Although I haven’t been working on this stuff for a few months, (eats up too much time) I have found out some new information (at least new to me) that I haven’t posted.
There’s a connection between some of the Indian families in Patrick County and the Redbones of South Carolina. I want to organize what I’ve found and post it soon.
Surry County was settled by Quakers and they spread out nearby to Galax and Ararat, Virginia and other areas. I have a great-great-gr… uncle, William Hiatt, a Quaker from Surry County, who was a missionary to the Shawnee and Delaware Indians. Some of the Quaker Hiatts married into the Riddles (Indian family) of Stokes County and then moved to Kentucky and Ohio if I remember correctly. I also know that several Quakers from the area also moved to Indiana and Ohio (states that I know some of the Indians from this area moved to). I suspect there could be a connection between the Quakers and Indians in the area (the Quakers would have been more tolerant and treated the Indians more fairly). Anyway, I hope to research this. The Quaker records may be a good place to look for the little information that exist on Indian families in the area.
infquirer wrote: Surry County was settled by Quakers and they spread out nearby to Galax and Ararat, Virginia and other areas. I have a great-great-gr… uncle, William Hiatt, a Quaker from Surry County, who was a missionary to the Shawnee and Delaware Indians. Some of the Quaker Hiatts married into the Riddles (Indian family) of Stokes County and then moved to Kentucky and Ohio if I remember correctly. I also know that several Quakers from the area also moved to Indiana and Ohio (states that I know some of the Indians from this area moved to). I suspect there could be a connection between the Quakers and Indians in the area (the Quakers would have been more tolerant and treated the Indians more fairly). Anyway, I hope to research this. The Quaker records may be a good place to look for the little information that exist on Indian families in the area.
infquirer,
You have my attention, being a Riddle descendant.
The story told in Ridlon’s book on the Riddle’s (published in the 1880’s) is that William “Tory” Riddle was the son of a Riddle from Surry County. This conflicts with the common thought that William was the son of Moses Riddle of Granville Co, NC. The person who gave this information is of my group that came to MO in the 1830’s (Isaac Riddle, son of John Riddle and Sarah Johnson).
I’d love to see any more information on the Riddle’s that you might have in this area.
May not be from the correct line, but there’s a Thomas Riddle on the 1767 Pittsylvania Co. VA tax list.
beeleaf wrote: May not be from the correct line, but there’s a Thomas Riddle on the 1767 Pittsylvania Co. VA tax list.
Yeah, I have seen him, along with Moses and William on that same tax list.
I think most of us here think that they are William “Tory” Riddle and his dad, Moses.
The problem is that doesn’t match up with Isaac’s account. Isaac was a lot closer to them than anyone alive today… I wish I knew the truth.
Rockhound,
Surry was formed in 1770 from Rowan County. Stokes was formed from Surry in 1789. If William Riddle was born in 1740 then I’d think Ridlon’s book was in error.
I got the information for the Riddles and Hiatts from
http://users.owt.com/flesher/gen/chron.htm. Quoting from that website,
“The Riddle’s and Hyatt’s (Hiatt, Hiett) were in Pennsylvania, Virginia and North Carolina before settling in Estill and Madison Counties, Kentucky, and eventually parts further North and West. The Hiatt’s were Quakers, and moved about between Pennsylvania, Virginia and North Carolina. Robert and Mary Hyatt were married in Stokes County, North Carolina in 1799. The story is told that Robert (not a Quaker) desired the hand of Mary. Her parents objected, and so packed up and left the area of their residence. Robert sold all his possessions and overtook them. The marriage may have been consented to at that point since a John Hiatt signed at the marriage with Robert (Ridle) Riddle. Mary’s father’s name was John Hiatt…”
The Mary Hiatt mentioned here is the sister of Josiah Hiatt who is the father of Ephraim Hiatt who is the father of William Franklin Hiatt, my great grandfather who married Virginia Caroline Willis, the Indian I talked about on the first post of the thread. My relatives say that Josiah quit the Quaker faith and became a Moravian
Some of the Riddles and Bowmans are interrelated, and I do have a direct Bowman ancestor that I don’t know the parents for. I could have some Riddle blood for all I know.
From http://www.jimcal.com/v04is01.htm
“In 1774 William Riddle (Riddell) was a member of Capt. William Herbert’s militia company, and apparently fought in Lord Dunmore’s War at Point Pleasant on the Ohio together with Neal Roberts, William Roberts, James Wallen, Joseph Wallen, Thomas Wallen, James Wallin, William Ingram, John Cox, George Sizemore, Micajer Bunch, Doswell Rogers, Nathaniel Wilshire, Clement Lee, George Keith, David Cox, Elisha Collins, Lewis Collins, John Collins, John Collins Jr., John Cox, David Cox, Daniel Blevins, James Blevins and William Blevins.11 “
It’s interesting to note that several of these names are Indian names not just Riddle and Bunch, but Sizemore and Blevins also. Several Sizemores and Blevins from Stokes and Surry Counties are on the Guion-Miller Roll. DNA tests for the Sizemores show that they’re descended from a male Indian.
Beeleaf, I wonder if one of these Collins mentioned isn’t in your line?
infquirer wrote: Rockhound,
Surry was formed in 1770 from Rowan County. Stokes was formed from Surry in 1789. If William Riddle was born in 1740 then I’d think Ridlon’s book was in error.
I got the information for the Riddles and Hiatts from
http://users.owt.com/flesher/gen/chron.htm. Quoting from that website,
“The Riddle’s and Hyatt’s (Hiatt, Hiett) were in Pennsylvania, Virginia and North Carolina before settling in Estill and Madison Counties, Kentucky, and eventually parts further North and West. The Hiatt’s were Quakers, and moved about between Pennsylvania, Virginia and North Carolina. Robert and Mary Hyatt were married in Stokes County, North Carolina in 1799. The story is told that Robert (not a Quaker) desired the hand of Mary. Her parents objected, and so packed up and left the area of their residence. Robert sold all his possessions and overtook them. The marriage may have been consented to at that point since a John Hiatt signed at the marriage with Robert (Ridle) Riddle. Mary’s father’s name was John Hiatt…”
The Mary Hiatt mentioned here is the sister of Josiah Hiatt who is the father of Ephraim Hiatt who is the father of William Franklin Hiatt, my great grandfather who married Virginia Caroline Willis, the Indian I talked about on the first post of the thread. My relatives say that Josiah quit the Quaker faith and became a Moravian
Some of the Riddles and Bowmans are interrelated, and I do have a direct Bowman ancestor that I don’t know the parents for. I could have some Riddle blood for all I know.
From http://www.jimcal.com/v04is01.htm
“In 1774 William Riddle (Riddell) was a member of Capt. William Herbert’s militia company, and apparently fought in Lord Dunmore’s War at Point Pleasant on the Ohio together with Neal Roberts, William Roberts, James Wallen, Joseph Wallen, Thomas Wallen, James Wallin, William Ingram, John Cox, George Sizemore, Micajer Bunch, Doswell Rogers, Nathaniel Wilshire, Clement Lee, George Keith, David Cox, Elisha Collins, Lewis Collins, John Collins, John Collins Jr., John Cox, David Cox, Daniel Blevins, James Blevins and William Blevins.11 “
It’s interesting to note that several of these names are Indian names not just Riddle and Bunch, but Sizemore and Blevins also. Several Sizemores and Blevins from Stokes and Surry Counties are on the Guion-Miller Roll. DNA tests for the Sizemores show that they’re descended from a male Indian.
Beeleaf, I wonder if one of these Collins mentioned isn’t in your line?
Thanks for posting this information.
Here is more on the Riddle connection to Surry County. Mary Hill (who is extremely knowledgeable about the Riddles) makes mention of the Draper Manuscript where William Thomas Riddle is named as the son of Colonel James Riddle of Surry County, NC. She goes on to say that this Col. James Riddle might actually be William Thomas Riddle’s father-in-law.
Beeleaf, I wonder if one of these Collins mentioned isn’t in your line?
I wonder that, too. I have seen some work by other researchers that have gone backward to Albermarle and Orange County, VA. However, their sources aren’t mentioned (the word “probably” is used) and the info is conflicting. It’s usually in reference to Elisha, but there were so many different Elishas, it can be confusing.
Rockhound, I was just looking at the 1810 Shenandoah, VA census. There is an Isaac and a George Riddle on there, with Benjamin, John, and Stephen Bowman near them. Just another tidbit.
Bowman is one of the old German names in the Shenandoah Valley, including that county (where the longtime editor of the local paper in New Market was a former Confederate officer named Bowman). It was originally Baumann, there, and is still spelled several ways. Some branches of this family are Mennonites; they are into genealogy, and have good records, among other places at the Menno Simons Historical Collection at Eastern Mennonite College, on the outskirts of Harrisonburg, VA. Last time I was there (several years ago), the archivist was a Mrs. Bowman.
I don’t know anything about their Indian connections, assuming they have any. I’d guess the Bowmans came to the Valley of Virginia from PA, in the 1730s or a little later. (Most everybody else did.)
hello
the picture of the woman in the left photo looks like my grand aunt and my cousin’s daughter resemble her as well ?
Do you know or are you related to any Cheeks they were from Norlina NC. and they were part indian as well.?
Bowman is one of the old German names in the Shenandoah Valley…
PappyDick, thanks.
There, again, is what can make research so difficult. I go around in many circles wondering if ancestors with common names are totally European, mixed, or have borrowed a neighbor’s name.
Bowman is also the surname of some Cherokee families currently living on the Qualla boundary.
PappyDick,
Some of the Bowmans claim Indian blood and I know some of it’s from marrying Goings and Riddles. I have no idea if its more than that.
My Bowman ancestor comes from my great-great-great grandmother Gilah Bowman, who married Josepth Brim on Nov 23, 1809. Deeds show Joseph Brim lived on Squirrel Creek which empties into the Dan River as early as 1825. Patrick Co deeds indicate John Bowman owned land or lived on Squirrel Creek in 1788 and Gilbert Bowman in 1816.
If anyone knows anything about Gilah Bowman or Josepth Brim I’d like to know.
Their daughter, Catherine “Katy” Brim married Robert Murray Marshall. There is another set of Marshalls in the area who had a Puckett marry into the family (think of the Pucket cabin on the Blue Ridge Parkway). The father of the child was an Indian with the name of Grand Sir.
See http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dwmsr42/dat408.htm#11
Tianicwanga,
The parents of the woman in the picture came from the Goinstown community of Indians in northwest Rockingham County. I haven’t proved that she is Indian but she said she was and Goings and Thomas Indians were witnesses for her wedding. She’s not related to any Cheeks that I know of. A best guess for the ancestry of the Goinstown Indians would be that they’re Eastern Siouan with Saponi and maybe some Cheraw and Catawba thrown in. Do you know which Indian group your grand aunt and my cousin’s daughter would have come from? Off the top of my head I’d guess the Haliwa Saponi would be the closest to Norlina.
Beeleaf,
I’m really going to be away from the computer for a while since I’m going to the NC Wildfood Festival this weekend. It’s not too far from your neck of the woods in Reidsville, not far from Goinstown. We forage in the woods and fields for everything we eat for Saturday’s supper except for the meat. Usually we have venison, bear meat, goose and quail. A couple of years we have had rattlesnake which was grilled and one year alligator.
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