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thanks Pappydick
I am not sure which tribe my great grandmother and my grandfather and my grand aunt have came from I was told that my great grandmother was eather a full blood indian or indian and part black (told that he was a slave but no confirmation on wheather he was a black or indian slave). I am also not sure of the Cheeks connection to the family myself since there is no last name of my great grandmother Mary on my grandfather’s birth certificate and no father’s name mention ( his father was white ) .
He had a brother and a sister( my great aunt I was refering to ) but i am not sure if they had the same father as my grandfather .
Thanks, Tia. I get a bit lost sometimes. ;~)
Inf., I just re-read that first post. I recognize the name Hiatt as being a neighbor of my family in Patrick County. I also went to school with a Workman family in Ridgeway, VA (Henry County, just across the state line from Eden, NC). They looked like Indians to me. Dark skin, long black hair, big ole cheekbones. Maybe that is helpful. I can dig out the old yearbooks for pictures if you like.
My Bowman ancestor comes from my great-great-great grandmother Gilah Bowman, who married Josepth Brim on Nov 23, 1809. Deeds show Joseph Brim lived on Squirrel Creek which empties into the Dan River as early as 1825. Patrick Co deeds indicate John Bowman owned land or lived on Squirrel Creek in 1788 and Gilbert Bowman in 1816.
If anyone knows anything about Gilah Bowman or Josepth Brim I’d like to know.
Their daughter, Catherine “Katy” Brim married Robert Murray Marshall. There is another set of Marshalls in the area who had a Puckett marry into the family (think of the Pucket cabin on the Blue Ridge Parkway). The father of the child was an Indian with the name of Grand Sir.
Oh, now I may as well just go ahead and call ya “Cousin”. Coincidentally, I just came across a batch of PCVA Bowman deeds yesterday. Looks like your Gilbert Bowman lived next to my Elisha Collins (My Edward Collins’ brother, near as I can tell). They’re near William Burge, John King, William Lawson, Thomas Beasley, etc. Familiar names.
I will dig through my stuff & see if I have any info on Gilah and Joseph. I know the Bowmans and Brims were very fond of marrying each other. The Bowmans, Packs, and Goins seemed to be a close group, also. My Branch family married into all three.
Continuing to shrink the world, I lived next door to a Puckett family in Collinsville, VA (Henry County). The Puckett cabin and Mabry Mill are old favorite day trips.
That Wildfood festival sounds like a blast. Have fun!
Bee
Hi Beeleaf
I’ve been indisposed. Caught a stomach bug from a fast food restaurant coming back from the wildfoods festival (it was the fast food and not the wild).
Most unusal meat this year was bar-b-qued groundhog. Meet two Hiatt (maiden name) ladies at the festival from Martinsville who appeared to have a lot of Indian blood and in fact they said they did. They said their Hiatt ancestors were buried on Willow Hill in Patrick Co. Willow Hill is about a half mile from the Blue Ridge Parkway and my great grandfather William Franklin Hiatt’s siblings and cousins are buried there. William Franklin is buried close by at one of the little rock churches on the Parkway. The Hiatt ladies at the festival said that an Indian tribe was going over their background for consideration in membership into the tribe. I didn’t think to ask which one. It might be the Ani-Stohini/Unami or it could be the Sauras. The only time I’ve seen mention of the Saura as a modern tribe is from a Aug. 15, 2000 Patrick Co Rootsweb listserv message which in part stated “I saw in the Marinsville Bulletin that the Patrick County Genealogical Society was going to meet tonite and the speaker was going to be the Principal Chief of the Saura Tribe of Virginia and North Carolina…” Was wondering if you knew anything about them?
On the 1850 Patrick Co. census, Bowman is a very common name and I doubt that most of them have Indian blood. But there is a reason why some of the Bowmans kept marrying the Goins, Riddles and Harris families, known Indian families as well as Tarcarion’s Hawkins Bowman who had Catawba Indian listed as a note under his name on a census. It could be that someone like Grand Sir borrowed the Bowman last name which would cause a lot headaches in tracing the lineage.
I’d appreciate anything you have on Gilah Bowman and Joseph Brim. I’d be interested in knowing if these Bowmans tie into the ones who married into the Goins and Packs. Right now I don’t have time to research, but hopefully I will in a few weeks.
Thompson is considered to be an Indian name in some communities in Patrick County. When I saw this membership list for an Indian Church in Privateer, South Carolina http://www.jgoins.com/bethesta_baptist_church.htm with the names Goins, Pack and Thompson on it, I knew there had to be a connection with Patrick County. It looks like the Packs from Patrick County and South Carolina came from three brothers, Samual, George and Joseph from Augusta County, VA.. Joseph went to South Carolina and the town of Paxville (about 7 miles southeast of Privateer) was named for him. Some sources say that the Packs were large slaveholders so you wonder how the Indian Packs came to be.
Hey Inf,
Hope you are feeling better!
I reckon groundhog sounds better than my Daddy’s description of fried possum. ;~)
The Hiatt ladies at the festival said that an Indian tribe was going over their background for consideration in membership into the tribe. I didn’t think to ask which one. It might be the Ani-Stohini/Unami or it could be the Sauras. The only time I’ve seen mention of the Saura as a modern tribe is from a Aug. 15, 2000 Patrick Co Rootsweb listserv message which in part stated “I saw in the Marinsville Bulletin that the Patrick County Genealogical Society was going to meet tonite and the speaker was going to be the Principal Chief of the Saura Tribe of Virginia and North Carolina…” Was wondering if you knew anything about them?
I have not heard of a modern Saura tribe, either. However, the “Wolf Creek Cherokee” have moved to the area & set up an office in Patrick County. I think they might be going by “Blue Ridge Cherokee” now. You pay a fee and they research your stuff, then let you know if you qualify for enrollment. I won’t get into my ponderings about that, but for 25 bucks, I may let them have a go at my genealogy. Anyway, they seem to be a heck of a lot easier to contact than the Ani-Stohini Unami, so that would be my best guess.
I know those little rock churches on the parkway. One of my relatives may have been the preacher at one of them, long ago. Of course, I can’t remember which relative, but it was likely from the Turner or Shough line.
I can’t help but scratch my head and say “Hmm” when I wander through those old censuses. I have much more digging to do. More than one person in my Branch line married a Goins (at least one of them appears to be the “white” daughter of a FPC). Same line lived near and married Bowman, Pack, Vaughan, etc. That is, when they actually married. I suppose I could start a whole other thread on unmarried grandmothers.
Ok, enough rambling. I know I found something on the Brim-Bowman connection the other day. I will dig it out and report back in a fresh post.
Oh, did you see my other post, with a picture of Fred Quesenberry and Cynthia Pack?
Well, this is going to take some sifting and sorting.
PCVA Marriage transcriptions by both Lela C. Adams & William Harrold have
Gillah Bowman marrying Benjamin Brim 23 March, 1809. Min. Thomas Whitlock.
?? I did find Joseph & Gilly on census, and in transcribed death records, although not a lot of detail is given:
1870 Census:
414. ———
Joseph Brim 80 w/m $400 VA
Gilly 82 w/f
Eliza 57
Keziah 53
Nancy 45
Nancy Smith 15 b/f Servant
There was also a Joseph Brim, Jr., listed as white, and a Joe Brim, listed as Black (wife Jane)
PCVA DEATHS:
BRIM, GILLY RACE & SEX W/F AGE 83 DATE 20 FEB 1871
LOCATION CAUSE WOUND IN HEAD
PARENTS OCCUPATION
BIRTHPLACE CONSORT
INFORMANT FAMILY PHYSICIAN RELATIONSHIP
BRIM, JOSEPH RACE & SEX W/M AGE 82 DATE 14 FEB 1871
LOCATION CAUSE WOUND
PARENTS UNKNOWN OCCUPATION
BIRTHPLACE CONSORT GILLY BOWMAN(?)
INFORMANT FAMILY RELATIONSHIP
BRIM, KEZIAH RACE & SEX W/F AGE 78 DATE 26 DEC 1892
LOCATION CAUSE UNKNOWN
PARENTS JOSEPH & GILLY BRIM OCCUPATION
BIRTHPLACE CONSORT SINGLE
INFORMANT NANCY BRIM RELATIONSHIP HD FAMILY
BRIM, ELIZA RACE & SEX W/F AGE 56 DATE 2 JUL 1871
LOCATION CAUSE UNKNOWN
PARENTS JOSEPH & GILLY BRIM OCCUPATION
BIRTHPLACE CONSORT SINGLE
INFORMANT FAMILY RELATIONSHIP
There are quite a few Brim/Bowman marriages.
Gilbert Bowman md. Lucy Brimon (Brim?) 23 Oct 1805. Surety, David Roark
TBC
Please forgive my failing memory, as I repeat myself repeatedly. ;~)
I just noticed your previous mention of the surname “Wallen”. Do you suppose that could be a different way to spell “Whaling”? Whaling is another of my family names.
Another little tidbit:
GOING, MARTHA RACE & SEX W/F AGE 72 DATE 21 MAY 1891
LOCATION CAUSE PARALYSIS
PARENTS — BEASLEY OCCUPATION
BIRTHPLACE CONSORT MARRIED
INFORMANT SUSAN WILLIAMS RELATIONSHIP FRIEND
Hi Bee,
Inf., I just re-read that first post. I recognize the name Hiatt as being a neighbor of my family in Patrick County. I also went to school with a Workman family in Ridgeway, VA (Henry County, just across the state line from Eden, NC). They looked like Indians to me. Dark skin, long black hair, big ole cheekbones. Maybe that is helpful. I can dig out the old yearbooks for pictures if you like.
I thought Workman might be the real last name for Lucy, James Hendricks’ wife when I saw a few Workman applications on the Guion-Miller roll, but they were from West Virginia. Your location fits very well. That’s the best lead I’ve seen. If I could just figure out how to get the geneaology.
BRIM, GILLY RACE & SEX W/F AGE 83 DATE 20 FEB 1871
LOCATION CAUS WOUND IN HEAD
BRIM, JOSEPH RACE & SEX W/M AGE 82 DATE 14 FEB 1871
LOCATION CAUSE WOUND
I thought someone had robbed and murdered Gilly and Josepth Brim thinking since they were old they would be easy to rob, but then I saw that the murders happened 6 days apart. I’m not sure what that’s about.
I thought someone had robbed and murdered Gilly and Josepth Brim thinking since they were old they would be easy to rob, but then I saw that the murders happened 6 days apart. I’m not sure what that’s about.
Perhaps Gilly lived a few days longer after being wounded?
I will keep an eye out in my stuff for Workman families. Meanwhile, here’s a site with some photos, etc. of some of the West Virginia Workmans, as well as links to other sources of info:
http://www.familyoldphotos.com/5c/2m/mary_bess_hunt_and_samuel_workma.htm
This one goes way back & mentions 3 Workmans who settled in Virginia:
http://www.houseofnames.com/coatofarms_details.asp?sId=&s=workman
Beeleaf,
I saw this and figured it’s one of your Packs, and thought I’d might have found a connection to Indians. From http://www.kinyon.com/westvirginia/midnewriver/appendixc8.htm
The Packs
The progenitors of this family now in this section of the country were on the New River, about the mouth of Indian Creek, as early as 1763. Pack, Swope and Pittman, hunters, discovering Indian signs, started, one for the Jackson’s River, and the other for the Catawba settlements, to warn the people, but the Indians had traveled faster than the hunters and the warning did not reach them. The given name of this hunter, Pack, is not obtainable; it is probable that he was the ancestor of the Samuel who was born in Augusta, in 1760, as members of this family, soon after 1764, are found along the New River between the mouth of the Greenbrier and Indian Creek.
It’s puzzled me as to what the Catawba settlements were. Just reading it you would think they were white settlements on the Catawba River in North Carolina. I didn’t think it meant the Catawbas on the North/South Carolina line, although I have read that Virginian government officials did warn the Catawba Indians of approaching Iroquois war parties. Trying to figure it out I googled to see if there was a settlement called Catawba and came up with this similar story. From http://www.kinyon.com/westvirginia/midnewriver/chapter2a.htm
In the Fall of the year 1763, about fifty Indian warriors ascended the Great Sandy, and passed over the present territory of Mercer County on to New River, where they separated, forming two parties, one going towards the Jackson River, and the other towards the Roanoke and Catawba settlements.
Pitman, Pack and Swope, trappers on New River, discovered the trail of these Indians and the route they had taken, suspecting that they were preparing to attack the settlements just mentioned, they set out, Pitman for Jackson’s River and Pack and Swope for Roanoke, but the Indians reached both places ahead of them. After killing some people in the Jackson’s River settlement and taking some prisoners, the Indians began a hasty retreat towards the Ohio, pursued by Captain Audley Paul with a company of twenty men from Fort Dinwiddie, and who followed the Indians up Dunlap’s Creek over on to Indian Creek and New River, to the mouth of Piney Creek without discovering them, and Captain Paul started on his return.
The party that had crossed over on to the Roanoke and Catawba committed some depredations and murders, and captured three prisoners,
I did find a community called Catawba in Halifax County, VA about 5 miles from the Roanoke River. From http://www.oldhalifax.com/county/Nathalie.htm “Established in 1773 by Samuel Harris, the first Catawba Baptist Church was a log building just across the road from the present church….(Editor’s note) The name for the Catawba Baptist Church and Catawba Creek, and in fact the whole area that is now called Nathalie was originally called Catawba.” The Indians of Person County NC (I think they’ve changed their name to Sappony) spill over into Halifax County, Virginia.
However, I went back to http://www.kinyon.com/westvirginia/midnewriver/chapter2a.htm.
This source talks about “Captain Hogg on the Roanoke at Vass’s Fort”
The online version of the book, Annals of Augusta County, Virginia, from 1726 to 1871
shows the place of Fort Vause, Vass, Voss or Vaux at the head of the Roanoke River in the present county of Montgomery about ten miles from Christiansburg. This book also gives a better description of what took place. (The fifty warriors were Mingos and Delawares). It says the Catawba is a small stream in Botetourt County. On the map, Catawba Creek is about 12 miles north of Roanoke, and Catawba Mountain is about 8 miles northwest of Roanoke, behind Fort Lewis and Brushy Mountains.
From http://www.co-opliving.com/coopliving/issues/2001/October/downhome.htm
Catawba is thought to be the oldest settled area of Roanoke County. A cabin-fort was built in 1722, and property owners are listed as early as 1740. No one knows how the name originated, but Indian artifacts are found all over the valley.
“Legend has it Catawba Indians camped along Catawba Creek,” Wingate says.
So I couldn’t find an Indian connection from these sources although this Pack certainly sounds like someone who would have taken an Indian wife.
http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/cgi-bin/GetDW.pl?dir=0328/P0051&card=2 Record Page Image has Samuel Pack listed under Capt. James Robertson Company for Lord Dunmore’s War.
Infquirer,
Some BOWMANs are ID’d on census records as Indian on those records in the 1860s & 70s in Ky and the same families are tracable back thru SW Va, and NW NC counties to Lincoln Co., NC (Catawba country – but they weren’t the only ones there). Try using the ‘search’ button on the banner at the top of the page for various surnames.
Several other surnames in time periods and locations you’ve mentioned may have substance you don’t recognize but you provided no details for them, so you can expect no response. Specific family information must be posted if you are interested in finding specific family information.
Bill
Hey Inf,
Thanks for that info.
Since this thread is related to Goinstown, here is a little circle I just went around. ;~)
I was re-reading a Patrick Co. Genealogy Society page that mentions their Native American programming in Patrick County (which began in 1999).
http://www.pcgsva.org/About%20PCGS.htm
It stated that Myrtle Driver came and spoke in 2000 about the Cherokee Indians in PCVA. Punched Myrtle’s name in Google, hoping to find a transcript or something. Happened upon her bio at Qualla, got caught up in reading about familiar folks there, and then noticed that some of the current members of the tribe are named Goings.
http://www.cherokeeheritagetrails.org/nextgenart/nextgencontent.html
More food for thought?
I have read many times that there “ain’t no Cherokee in Virginia”, and have been puzzled. Well, I guess I still am.
My Grandmother on my fathers side is Cordelia Workman
Born 1914 Greenbrier Co. WV
Her Mother Her Father
Mahalia Baldwin James Workman
Born 1895 Born 1861
Both from Greenbrier Co. WV
Mahalia’s father Joseph Baldwin b: 1853 Tazwell Co. VA
Joseph’s parents:
Abijah Baldwin b: 1805 Ashe Co. NC
Mahalia Sizemore b: 1811
Listed for Mahalia Sizemore’s parents
Ed Sizemore b:1788 and Annie Baldwin b:1786
Ed’s parents George Edward Sizemore b:1750 and Ann Hart b:1750
James Workman’s parents:
Charles Workman b:1819 Monroe Co WV
Phoebe Baily b:1822
Charles Workman’s parents:
Joseph Workman b: 1790 PA
Elizabeth Reed b:1793
other surnames of my family from the Greenbrier Co. WV area: Yates, Anderson, Shaver, Cox, Rineholt
I hope this may be of some help
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