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Linda;37083 wrote: “john is the son of Stanford Barnes and Frances corn.”
Are you aware that Corn is one of only half a dozen surnames documented as belonging to Saponi individuals?
No, I did not… I happened upon this site by chance as I was searching for more information about my genealogy. This is actually the only time I have found anyone else trying to figure out the who/what/when/where regarding John Barnes. It’s long been a part of our family history that there was Cherokee blood (although the quotes I’ve read from others stating that most native Americans in the area were called Cherokee makes me wonder if that’s why). There have been a few holes in the family tree that I can’t figure out, and I’ve wondered if maybe that’s where the ancestry falls.
The first info I came across regarding my ancestry was a cassette tape recorded by my great-uncle Clyde. He was the son of Everett Barnes and Lissie Mitchell (children were Emory Gene, dorlas, Doug, clarabell, gaynell, Clyde, Edward, Arthur, Gladys, garnet, & frank). He did not have any information recorded about his fathers side except his fathers name. I only found the name John Barnes years later on Everett’s death certificate. Lissie’s siblings were listed as bob, Walt, Jim, Margaret, and Bert. Their parents were salley Ella beavers and William Harvey Mitchell. He stated that Sally Ella was “full-blooded Cherokee” and that her husband was the son of (unnamed) Irish immigrants. However, he said salley Ella’s parents were David Karl beavers and Rhoda Pruitt, her siblings were will and Tom, and her grandmother was Sarah Pruitt, the daughter of farmers.
it appears some information came from records I have also found, but I’m guessing the ancestry claims and Sarah’s parents being farmers is part of information passed down. Research on these names show no native heritage. I’m including some photos of these family members as well. The young soldier is Emory gene Barnes, late 1940’s. The other photo of a man is Everett Bert Barnes, around the early 30s. The older woman is Lissie Mitchell Barnes, and the picture of the two women is Lissie and her mother salley Ella. I see where the “full-blooded Cherokee” is coming from, but I can’t figure out why the lineage doesn’t seem to add up. Granted, I have no idea where my great-uncle got what information, but I’d really love to figure out some of this. As for me, I don’t really know my biological fathers family (I’m part Filipino and thought I was Hawaiian for awhile, it kind of sucks not to be able to say, hey, this is who/what I am/where I come from).
I’d encourage you to find as much as you can about this Corn connection. There are very few descendants known, and like I said, it’s one of very few names documented. If you search this board you’ll find more mentions of Corns, including the source quote, somewhere I believe. Your family do look like mixed-bloods. To have so many people with that, there are likely more than one line involved. Mixed bloods married mixed bloods, giving rise to ‘throwbacks’ who tended to have different lives from those who looked white. (Of course, that’s assuming the mix was between white and Indian, if it were a Black/Indian mix I imagine that dynamic would be a bit different.)
I’m thinking that the few Corns known were people from what became affluent white families, so if we’re finding a vein of more mixed-blooded people living on the frontier, it could turn out to be very interesting.
Come to think of it, there’s a feature on this board that will allow us to create categorization, a hierarchy, so all this could be read like a reference book. If you’d be willing I could give you permissions, and you could mark those posts you find on here with tags like ‘Corn surname’ or whatever. I need to start getting everyone who’s researching here to do that so we can make all this more useful and enduring.
If you want to know the story of what happened on your father’s side, there’s a story here that’s tragic and grand.
Linda;37085 wrote:
Come to think of it, there’s a feature on this board that will allow us to create categorization, a hierarchy, so all this could be read like a reference book. If you’d be willing I could give you permissions, and you could mark those posts you find on here with tags like ‘Corn surname’ or whatever. I need to start getting everyone who’s researching here to do that so we can make all this more useful and enduring.
I would be willing to help with this for names in my family. Indiana Jones/Smith and other names discussed here like Coppock and Bailey.
Speaking of reference books, just ordered the Haithcock Ohio book.
Hi Ashley,
I’m sorry for the belated response. There’s just not enough hours in a day right now.
You are definitely my cousin, and I am Garnet “John Bull’s” grandson. Your mother, Aunt, and I spent much time playing together many moons ago. I have run into your posts on other sites, but I evidently had no luck contacting you from the links posted on those sites.
On your questions regarding John Barnes-
John Arthur Barnes’ parents are documented on his and Malissa Creed’s marriage certificate-
[TABLE=width: 72]
[TR][TD]Groom’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]John A. Barns[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Birth Date:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1858[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Birthplace:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Patrick Co., Va[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Age:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Malissa Creed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Birth Date:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1868[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Birthplace:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Russell Co., Va[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Age:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Marriage Date:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]13 Oct 1886[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Marriage Place:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Tazewell, Virginia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Father’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Sanford Barns[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Mother’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Francis Barns[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Father’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Shadrac L. Creed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Mother’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Margt. Creed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Race:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]White[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Marital Status:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Widowed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Previous Wife’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]NA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Race:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]White[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Marital Status:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Divorced[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Previous Husband’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]NA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Indexing Project (Batch) Number:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]M01695-4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]System Origin:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Virginia-EASy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Source Film Number:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]34214[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Reference Number:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Page 75 line 109[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Collection:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Virginia Marriages, 1785-1940[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD](http://www.familyseach.org)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Note that John is listed as Widowed, supporting your information about his first marriage to Virginia Linton.
On the question of the Mitchell, Beavers, and Pruitt lines, most of our Great Aunts and Uncles knew they were Native American, but our heritage was hid from them by their ancestors out of fear of being placed into slavery, or worse. When I used to speak with them years ago, they were thinking they were either Cherokee or Creek, and trying to answer that question is where I began with this quest years ago. I’ve not spent much time in the Pruitt line yet, but I’ve heard rumors from others about some Cherokee ties. I’ve not found any solid documentation indicating our families as Cherokee, and none of our ancestors appear on the Dawes Roll.
I can tell you that you connect to the Occaneechi-Saponi Tribe as Linda indicated via our Corn Line. Just go to page 8 of this thread, and look at my post on 12-20-2009, 09:22 PM to see my notes on the line. Our Beavers Line goes back into the Christian Family, the Bailey Family, and on back to Elinipsico Cornstalk and his father, Chief Keightughqua Cornstalk of the Shawnee Tribe, who were both murdered at Fort Randolph, Point Pleasant, West Virginia. The Mitchell line runs back to the Tuscarora Tribe of Bertie County, NC, and the Barnes line goes back to the Tuscarora Toisneot Village in Wilson, NC and the Cheroenhaka (Nottoway) Tribe.
What makes this all very difficult to fully document is that Native Americans were not counted on census forms, avoiding contact with any Government Officials who could document them, and on the move quite a bit. I’ve found a few morsels on Sanford Barnes, who was listed on the 1850 Census as “Anson Barnes”, and on his death certificate as “Samson Barnes”. The Barnes name has been listed as Barns, Burns, Barron, Burr, Baron, etc., and I’ve had to really search “outside the box”.
Unfortunately, I’m running out of time to write tonight, and there’s so much more to our story. Please feel free to pick a smaller topic from one of our Oracles and I’ll see if I can fill in some more of the details as time permits.
Best Regards,
Four Cats
Four Cats;37096 wrote: Hi Ashley,
I’m sorry for the belated response. There’s just not enough hours in a day right now.
You are definitely my cousin, and I am Garnet “John Bull’s” grandson. Your mother, Aunt, and I spent much time playing together many moons ago. I have run into your posts on other sites, but I evidently had no luck contacting you from the links posted on those sites.
On your questions regarding John Barnes-
John Arthur Barnes’ parents are documented on his and Malissa Creed’s marriage certificate-
[TABLE=width: 72]
[TR][TD]Groom’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]John A. Barns[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Birth Date:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1858[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Birthplace:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Patrick Co., Va[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Age:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Malissa Creed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Birth Date:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1868[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Birthplace:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Russell Co., Va[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Age:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Marriage Date:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]13 Oct 1886[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Marriage Place:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Tazewell, Virginia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Father’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Sanford Barns[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Mother’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Francis Barns[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Father’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Shadrac L. Creed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Mother’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Margt. Creed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Race:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]White[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Marital Status:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Widowed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Groom’s Previous Wife’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]NA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Race:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]White[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Marital Status:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Divorced[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bride’s Previous Husband’s Name:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]NA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Indexing Project (Batch) Number:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]M01695-4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]System Origin:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Virginia-EASy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Source Film Number:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]34214[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Reference Number:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Page 75 line 109[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Collection:[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Virginia Marriages, 1785-1940[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD](http://www.familyseach.org)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Note that John is listed as Widowed, supporting your information about his first marriage to Virginia Linton.
On the question of the Mitchell, Beavers, and Pruitt lines, most of our Great Aunts and Uncles knew they were Native American, but our heritage was hid from them by their ancestors out of fear of being placed into slavery, or worse. When I used to speak with them years ago, they were thinking they were either Cherokee or Creek, and trying to answer that question is where I began with this quest years ago. I’ve not spent much time in the Pruitt line yet, but I’ve heard rumors from others about some Cherokee ties. I’ve not found any solid documentation indicating our families as Cherokee, and none of our ancestors appear on the Dawes Roll.
I can tell you that you connect to the Occaneechi-Saponi Tribe as Linda indicated via our Corn Line. Just go to page 8 of this thread, and look at my post on 12-20-2009, 09:22 PM to see my notes on the line. Our Beavers Line goes back into the Christian Family, the Bailey Family, and on back to Elinipsico Cornstalk and his father, Chief Keightughqua Cornstalk of the Shawnee Tribe, who were both murdered at Fort Randolph, Point Pleasant, West Virginia. The Mitchell line runs back to the Tuscarora Tribe of Bertie County, NC, and the Barnes line goes back to the Tuscarora Toisneot Village in Wilson, NC and the Cheroenhaka (Nottoway) Tribe.
What makes this all very difficult to fully document is that Native Americans were not counted on census forms, avoiding contact with any Government Officials who could document them, and on the move quite a bit. I’ve found a few morsels on Sanford Barnes, who was listed on the 1850 Census as “Anson Barnes”, and on his death certificate as “Samson Barnes”. The Barnes name has been listed as Barns, Burns, Barron, Burr, Baron, etc., and I’ve had to really search “outside the box”.
Unfortunately, I’m running out of time to write tonight, and there’s so much more to our story. Please feel free to pick a smaller topic from one of our Oracles and I’ll see if I can fill in some more of the details as time permits.
Best Regards,
Four Cats
Im sorry… What is an oracle? I have so many questions I’ll probably annoy you silly, but I want put them in the right posts so that others can find them. Also, to Linda… I’m happy to help any way I can, just tell me what to do!
Ashleyrae625;37097 wrote: Im sorry… What is an oracle? I have so many questions I’ll probably annoy you silly, but I want put them in the right posts so that others can find them. Also, to Linda… I’m happy to help any way I can, just tell me what to do!
Hi Ashley,
There are no bad questions here. Most of us who post here are more than willing to help you, and those who frequent this forum have been very gracious to me with their thoughts and guidance in the past.
An Oracle is a family or tribal story handed down over the generations. As many Native American Tribes did not have a written language, the verbal Tribal Oracles were how the stories were handed down by the elders to the next generation. Uncle Clyde’s stories left to you on tape are some of your Oracles.
I will caution that you will occasionally encounter those who will insist on written documentation of some kind, and may challenge your family stories. I will tell you that it is OK to walk away from those people and remain strong with the oral stories of your ancestors as you heard them.
Please feel free to question away, we’re here to help and learn from one another. Please pass my regards to your mother and family from me and my family.
Best Regards,
Four Cats
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