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Hey Tech thanx for all the posts.
I see that there are 2 names on that short list that may be related to people on this list.
I’d like to know who John Montour really was, the image shows an almost Chiefly figure., Iroquoian and Delaware, be nice to see a family chart on this fellow.
Who is Queen Catherine?
Thanx again.
Gideon Langston and brother John
JSTOR: The Old Brick Churches of MarylandTwo of the In- dians educated at William and Mary College in 1753 were John Langston and Gideon Langston. Now the mother of the subject of this memoir, …
links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0043-5597(189504)1%3A3%3A4%3C282%3ATOBCOM%3E2.0.CO%3B2-I – Similar pages
The Old Brick Churches of Maryland by Helen West Ridgeley
The William and Mary Quarterly, Vol. 3, No. 4 (Apr., 1895), pp. 282-283
doi:10.2307/1915301
check this out aswell,
Judy Sweat married Gideon Langston at the Pamunkey Reservation.
http://sciway3.net/clark/freemoors/CherawIndiansofFL.htm
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0043-5597(189504)1%3A3%3A4%3C282%3ATOBCOM%3E2.0.CO%3B2-I
Indian Education and Missions in Colonial Virginia
W. Stitt Robinson, Jr.
JSTOR: Indian Education and Missions in Colonial Virginiaf The money was invested in the English manor “Brafferton,” located in the North Riding of … includ- ing William Cooke, Gideon Langston, John Langston
The Journal of Southern History, Vol. 18, No. 2 (May, 1952), pp. 152-168
Tom:
Check this out : http://www.rootsweb.com/~srgp/families/montour.htm. It explains the Montours. Son Andrew (who, if the generations are correct, was John’s father) was an interpreter who knew George Croghan and worked in and around Fort Pitt.
If my memory is correct, Catherine was an interpreter for Pitt. Her sister Esther is believed to have killed a group of Rangers in PA, because her son was killed by soldiers. i followed this line because somewhere, I read that sometimes Hudson is written as Huston and my Huston line is fron somewhere near there. The husband of Catherine, Telenemut, was also known as Thomas Hudson.
The family lived near and interacted with Shikelemey (misspelled), Chief Logan’s father.
Techteach
Found another document for a discussion we have had elsewhere on saponitown. This link talks about a Methodist missionary to the Wyandot at Upper Sandusky where the Mingos ended up : http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohcnewma/finley.html. This missionary was born on Mecklenberg County, NC and lived in Kentucky while growing up. I have been trying to tie him into the Finley family that married into a line that I have been trying to see if they were connected to my Sinkeys. Certainly the Butt that is mentioned in this article was likely some kind of relation to me, given the location.
Techteach
Referring back to post #52 above (by Sue Janz), I’d like to paste in what I think is a new reference on Jack Goins’ web site. He’s based in Hawkins Co. TN and is concerned primarily with Melungeon research; but as many of us have discovered, that often (if not “usually”) turns out to coincide with the movements and kinship networks of Saponi and related people.
The reference below is to a South Carolina petition of 1794 wherein a number of free persons of color request exempion from a newly instituted poll tax. I find a couple of members of my family, along with others who had moved to SC from the putative upper Tar River “Saponi enclave” that I have proposed elsewhere (in a “share genealogy research” thread, also begun by Sue Janz, titled “simon jeffreys and tar river neighbors”). That enclave is in the SW corner of present Franklin Co. NC. I’ll paste in the list of petitioners so this reference will show up on the Search function — but be aware, there is more information on the site, including the signatures of many neighbors who supported the petitioners.
http://www.jgoins.com/sc_petition.htm
Isaac Linager
Isaac Mitchell
Jonathon Price
Nathan Price
Richard Evins
Nathaniel Cumboe
George Collins
William Turner [his mark]
Thomas Hulin
Spencer Bolton [his mark]
William Swett [his mark]
Solomon Bolton [his mark]
James Shewmake [his mark]
John Turner Jr [his mark]
Solomon Shewmake [his mark]
Sampson Shewmake [his mark]
Thomas Shewmake Jun [his mark]
Thomas Shewmake Sen [his mark]
John Shewmake [his mark]
James Shewmake [his mark]
David Collins
Thomas Collins
John Turner Sen [his mark]
Mildred Turner [her mark]
Jenelayer {?} Turner [her mark]
Catherine Turner [her mark]
Elias Hulin
Cudworth Oxendine
Archmack Ocendine
Jeter Colder [his mark]
Moses Colder [his mark]
Delley Gibson
Drusilla Gibson
George McCloud
I thought I’d seen something about this SC petition elsewhere on Saponitown; but I believe the one I had in mind was the 1771 Granville Co. North Carolina one, cited by Sue a couple of years ago. As they involve pretty much the same issue, and include many of the same families (if not necessarily the same individuals; they are after all 23 years apart, and in different states), I thought the two references should perhaps be linked. See the 1771 list at
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1173&highlight=1771+petition
I guess I didn’t ask my question clear enough.
When the large number of Saponi headed north to Shamokin Dam, PA, did the remaining 14 men and 14 women that remained around Hillsboro live in what we might consider an “Indian Village”, or do you think they lived more as the Europeans around them. Do you think they lived in a centralized area or were they spread out on their own farms?
The tax list doesn’t seem to say anything out of the ordinary concerning their homes, so maybe they lived more as we would think pioneers did, and not as Indians, per se.
What are everyone’s thoughts on this?
This may be old news to the Forum, but I only just discovered that the full text of James Mooney’s “Siouan Tribes of the East” is available in .pdf at Google Books:
Michael Dunn
No, I didn’t know about that, and it’s great news. This is one of the best original sources there is, and hard to come by. Don’t let me forget to put a link on the index page of our site.
Sara, Saura, Cheraw etc. (some of our fellow eastern Siouans) are well referenced on this web site, which I hadn’t seen before:
http://www.freestateofpatrick.com/nah.htm
The author (Thomas D. Perry) is a local historian based in Ararat, VA. That is the home of J.E.B. Stuart, and the emphasis on his website is on Civil War history. But when he talks about the local Indians, he knows who they were — and (much more uncharacteristically) that their descendants are still around. I’m also pleased to see a link to this forum, on his referenced web page.
Responding to rockhound in #68 above:
When the large number of Saponi headed north to Shamokin Dam, PA, did the remaining 14 men and 14 women that remained around Hillsboro live in what we might consider an “Indian Village”, or do you think they lived more as the Europeans around them.
I think the ones who moved north would have lived in log houses, by that time and in that area. One of the earliest pictures of a native American settlement built that way is on the medal struck in 1757 to commemorate its destruction. It was at Kittanning, elsewhere on the Pennsylvania colonial frontier — not all that close to Shamokin, but not so far away either. I’ll put in a link to a state historical marker site; scroll down to the little picture of the medal, and click on the plus sign to enlarge it.
http://www.explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=155
A year or so ago we also had a thread about Saponi Cabins, started by Dan Akin, I think. I don’t believe we resolved the question of how they lived in the south. There is a nice French drawing of an Indian settlement in E. Tennessee that dates from the 1770s, I believe; and as I recall they still had the traditional construction, more of an elongated dome. (I forget whether it was Tellico, Chota, or some other town around there. Much more likely Cherokee than not.) Anyway, in the earlier decades of the 18th century, I don’t believe the native population in the south had very widely adopted northern European log construction.
The village in the picture I just mentioned was Tonoko. I got this reference from a friend in TN who is a state employed archaeologist:
Travels in America, by Louis Philippe (Delacorte Press, 1977), p. 87. The caption is “View of the Cherokee Indian village of Tokono, on the banks of the Tennessee River, which the princes visited 1 and 2 May 1997. Lithography from a painting by Storelli (1819) inspired by a painting by Montpensier (1804), both lost. Photo, Service Photographique Des Archives Nationales.” The image shows three log cabin-like buildings and a conical structure in a clearing surrounding by forest, on the edge of a river, with Indians in a canoe and doing various kinds of things on land.
I had the date wrong, these Frenchmen visited Tokono in 1791, not the 1770s as I had recalled. Also, some of the structures were in the European style, some were traditional. I once owned an original copy of this print, but sold it to the TN State Museum about 25 years ago. So I haven’t seen it lately.
Louis Philippe became King of France, but had toured Appalachia a good many years before his coronation.
This is a pretty interesting site, referenced by Linda about five years ago in the context of a photo tour following part of Byrd’s dividing line of 1728.
The site, based in Pittsylvania County VA, also has a grouping of artifacts found locally that may include some Saponi material. Much of it, of course, is much older. One thing I hadn’t seen before is a photo of Nikonha, the last Tutelo speaker, taken in 1870. Also if you click on “The Rock That Turned the Tide,” there’s a mortar that somebody plowed up, and was using for a birdbath. There are a lot of internal links to click on. I’ll post one on a “Material Culture” thread, also.
http://www.victorianvilla.com/sims-mitchell/local/native/index.htm
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