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If it is proven that the Blackfoot ID existed before the final diaspora c. 1800 (if this is correct) then I see the problem now as “were all East Coast surviving Indians simply called “Blackfoot” or was this a term used only by Saponi/Tutelo?
By comparing known surnames of each Va/NC/Md/Pa/WVa/ and other tribe possible of making the claim of bein the Eastern Blackfoot with those of your research of the surnames you’ve collected of people who have a historic family story of a claim of Blackfoot ancestry, you could make a stronger claim that these Blackfoot people were Saponi, and not from some other nation or nations. If about 50 percent of the folks have Saponi surnames, you might find the other 50 percent are Pamunkey, Tuscarora, Catawba, Delaware, ec cetera — or maybe not. But maybe it was a mixed group of refugees.
Maybe you’ve already done this tho. If so, please forgive me — sometimes I’m slow to catch things . . . 🙂
vance hawkins
Linda’s overall point is correct on Blackfoot Town in Delaware. However, the exact location is off by many miles. Blackfoot Town/Dagsboro is locate about 100 miles directly east and slightly south from the point she mentioned in western Maryland. Blackfoot Town sits on the headwaters of “Indian River”. This river and the area around it is located in what was formerly Somerset and Worcester counties, MD, but with changes in the state boundaries about 1763, it is located in what is today Sussex County, Delaware. One needs to get a map of Delaware and focus on the southeast coast along the Atlantic Ocean. Indian River dominates the geography of Sussex county. Its headwaters are inland about 20 miles in the swampy marshes near the MD border, and it flows from west to east and empties into the Atlantic Ocean. Dagsboro sets on a creek flowing into Indian River. It is a very remote area, even today, and the largest town near Dagsboro/Blackfoot Town is Georgetown.
Saponi/ Tutelos were indeed located near Dagsboro/ Blackfoot Town prior to 1747. The writings of J. Thomas Scharf, the noted Historian of Delaware,(1.) places the Saponi/Tutelo amongst other tribes inhabiting the southern part of Delaware (most likely Sussex county) in the 1700s. Here is what Scarf says in 1880:
“The …Scackamaxons, Tutelos, Nanticokes and many others occupied the lower country toward the coast, upon the Delaware and its affuents.”(2.) We don’t know exactly how this group of Saponi/Tutelo ended up in this area, but the solution of that problem can be taken up at another time. The main point is that the Tutelo according to Scharf were in lower Delaware at an early date.
Another citation places Saponi/Tutelo in the vicinity of the South Delaware in 1742. Tutelos (recorded as Totra) residing at Conoy town, Lancaster county, PA, along with Seneca, Shawnee, and Nanticoke, were a part of a famous plot for an Indian uprising in lower Delaware, at the portage of the Indian River area and the Pokomoke river on the MD/DE border. The name of the place was Winnasoccum Apparently, groups of Indians at Conoy town, including the Tutelo, did travel to the MD/DE border. Here they met some of the local Nanticokes and “Indian River Indians” to put the plan into action. Details on this plot are recorded in the Maryland Colonial records. Here is what is said about these events in testimony on June 30, 1742:
“Letter No. 78:
Maryland ss | Dochester Co. | The Examination of Jacob Pattasahook, one of Nanticoke Indians taken before me one of his Lordships Justices of the peace for the County aforesaid saith about a month ago this Examinant was at Coney Town on Susquehana River and was told by the Indians of said Town that the Senaca and Totra Indians in Conjunction and by the advice of the french had agreed to Cut of the English Inhabitants in Pensylvania Maryland and other adjacent parts of this Continent and the Indians in Somersett and Dorsett County and to that End the Senaca Indians were soon to go to Philadelphia to Dispose of some part of the Lands for Arms and Ammunition and haveing so done the Senaca, Totra, and other Indians were in roasten Ear and Apple time to fall upon the Back Inhabitants and at the Same time the french who was to come by Sea, were to Land on the Sea bond side of Somersett County in order to meet the said Indians, and further this Examinat Saith not, his June the 30th 1742 Jacob [c Pattasahook Certified by Henry Trippe marke”
This reference can be found at this address online:http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/megafile/msa/speccol/sc2900/sc2908/000001/000042/ html/am42–654.html
After the plot was foiled most likely some of the Tutelo stayed on in the area.
So by solid historical accounts, around 1742, Saponi/ Tutelo Indians were near the region of what later became known as Blackfoot Town. The multi tribal population of this area decreased over time but a remnant survives to today. It is established as the Indian River Hundred Nanticoke organization and has an office and museum in the town of Millsboro, which is a few miles form Dagsboro
In the 1930s and 1940s, several government ethnologists visited the Indian River Nanticoke population living near Blackfoot Town. C.A. Weslager, the noted researcher on the Lenni- Lenape and Nanticoke Indians interviewed a Joshua Hitchens on Oct. 25, 1941. When asked about his genealogy, Hitchens said his father’s family “were members of the Blackfoot Tribe.”(3.) Weslager did not endorse this statement of tribal affiliation nor did he try to openly attack it. Instead, he tried to claim that the Blackfoot tribe identification, in question, resulted from Blackfoot Town being a place name. Of course it is ludicrous to claim that the Blackfoot tribe spoken of by Hitchens has nothing to do with Indians, given that Blackfoot Town sat on Indian River. Indian River has been known by this name since 1640 in court records of Worcester County, Maryland, and later in Sussex County, Delaware. “Indian River Indians” who in fact were an amalgamation of the Nantcoke, Assateague, Saponi/Tutelo and others, appear in county documents and Maryland colonial records as early as 1700. Pulling this all together, what makes sense is to recognize that
1. The Saponi/Tutelo Indians who lived about Indian River were responsible for name “Blackfoot Indians” mentioned by Hitchens.
2. Because they lived there, the “Blackfoot Indians” gave their name to an Indian town located along Pepper creek, a tributary of Indian River, which later became known as Blackfoot Town. Blackfoot Town is the result of contact with the Blackfoot Indians not vice verse.
Linda, despite the error in location, your main point on timing is absolutely correct. The Blackfoot Indians living at Blackfoot Town/Dagsboro, DE, in 1747 predate, come before, the fictional diffusion of the so-called Western Blackfoot “ID” (“idea”?) into the Southeast during the 1880s. Also, this group of Saponi Blackfoot Indians (1747) predate the first appearance of Sihasapa Lakota Blackfoot in European and American records, which did not occur until about 1851. Prior to that, the precursors of the Sihasapa are known to us only by the names of leading families which at that time are living within other groups, i.e., with the Yanctonies..
The Blackfoot represented by the Saponi and the Sissipahaw appear in records way before the western Blackfoot, the Sisksika and the Sihassapa Lakota. Your observation that the Eastern Blackfoot is older than those in the west is supported by facts. All this points to the reality that the Eastern Blackfoot identity developed on a local basis in the Southeast and was not imported. True there were some cases of actual migrations of Sihassapa individuals and families into the Southeast during the 19th century. But they can be fairly recognized through genealogy research and are extremely small in number. Their presence cannot account for the wide spread existence of the Blackfoot ID in the Southeast.
Bess Veney
1. J. Thomas Scharf History of Delaware 1609-1888, L.J. Richards & Co. (1888) vol. 2, 1888, p.20
2. Ibid Scharf:20
3. Weslager,, C. A., The Nanticoke Indians— Past and Present, University of Delaware Press, Newark, p.198.
I hope this link works for the Maryland archives:
Bless you, Bess, I had heard there was more documentation about this, and here you are with it!
Perhaps this trouble brewing that’s mentioned in the records has something to do with the trouble in the family histories. I’ll need to track down the black lady’s emails, but I remember a sense that there had been trouble people were huddling from.
I’ll see more later. I’ve been stranded for a day and a half without internet and just got it running at 1 AM. Got to get to bed. Glad I looked at this thread.
Bess, your information is always an inspiration. You said —
“Indian River Indians” who in fact were an amalgamation of the Nantcoke, Assateague, Saponi/Tutelo and others, appear in county documents and Maryland colonial records as early as 1700.
I have a couple of questions.
1. So are the “Blackfoot” then a group of tribes that were lumped together and not the Saponi/Tutalo alone?
2. Did this word “Blackfoot” originate as English translation of “Saponi” or was it as a result of something else. I did see a reference where someone said it was because of a method of farming.
3. How do you know “Totra” means “Tutelo”?
Also I have a couple of observations about my “Richey” genealogy searches. I found Southern Richeys and Northern Richeys and still don’t know which ones we came from. I first find a record of my ancestors on 1840 census records in Gibson County, Indiana that say a John Richey gave Virginia as his birthplace in 1797. But the northern “Richeys” I’ve found on census records were from Md & Pa & I never checked Delaware, it bein a little state with just 2 or 4 counties it just didn’t occur to me. I also saw some further North but I didn’t think they migt be mine — but I have wondered if the Pa & Md Richeys camer to Va. Southern Richeys were in NC and Sc originally.
Second observation — I ran across other Richey surnamed folks who did say they heard their ancestors were “Tuckahoe” indians and others have said theirs were “Blackfoot” Indians. I found about 4 or 5 families of Richeys claimin each category online. These people had Richey ancestors in Kentucky, Pa & Va neighboring places, and not Indiana where mine went. I still don’ knnow which group of Richeys we came from, but I am thinkin now of checkin’ out Delaware and that maybe mine were the northern group.
I still feel like an outsider doin a research seekin my ancestry and still can’t claim my ancestors were “blackfoot” or Saponi. But it is curiouser and curiouser, and I feel “a little” more like an “insider since that reference to that Indiana Blackfoot Church reference in a county neighboring Gibson.
God bless yall I am learnin a lot here. A lot more than I expected.
vance hawkins
Linda I used to be able to edit my posts before changinig formats, but since that time I can’t, so you get all the misspelled words and blunders. Hope it is still comprehensible . . . 🙂
With utmost respect to the state of Delaware and admitting that the best gifts always come in small packages, but Delaware is a little state and anywhere in it can’t be very far from Indian River can it? So even if Blackfoot Town was on the other side of the state from Indian River it would still not be far away would it?
vance
Vance,
1. The term Indian River Indians described a multi tribal group, of mainly Algonkian speaking peoples, who lived along Indian River from 1700 onward. The grouping consisted mainly of Assateago, Delaware, Nanticoke and others. Also in the area were the Tutelo. According to oral history of descendants in this area, later on, some Cherokee and Choctaw came among the Indian River Indians. As a group I do not consider the Indian River Indians as the Blackfoot, only the Tutelo who were among them represent the Blackfoot.
2. Here is an abstract of my views on the terms you asked about. I will give a more developed explanation at a later date.
Saponi and Sissipahaw are siouan native American names. When their meanings are translated into English, they both express the word, Blackfoot. Saponi is an extreme abbreviation of that name, but has the same content as Sissapahaw. The Saponi Nation came into being as a confederation of Eastern Siouan speaking tribes at Ft Christanna, VA in early 1700s. The member units of the confederation were the Saponi tribe, Tutelo, Meioponsky , Occaneechi, Stegaraki, Monacan, It is also possible that the Sissipahaw was among them. Therefore, at this point in time, I look upon the Sissipahaw tribe as a subordinate branch of the Saponi nation.
In the records of Europeans outside of Va in the 17,18 an 19 century the word Tutelo was used as an equivalent for the Saponi in two ways: in a specific tribal identification, or generally pertaining to Siouan peoples of the South East living between at the foot of the mountains, between the Roanoke and the Potomic rivers. Sometime they included the Catawba under the term Tutelo.
3. Totra is recognized by researchers as a variation of the word Tutelo. See Claude E. Schaeffer’s, Introduction to: Frank G. Speck, The Tutelo Spirit Adoption Ceremony.., Pennsylvania Historical Commission, Harrisburg, (1942) page xii, Here is what is said:
“An interesting reference to the Tutelo of this period has been called to my attention by William B. Marye (Maryland Archives, XLII, 654-55). From the examination of a Nanticoke Indian in 1742, it was learned that the natives of Conoy town on the lower Susquehanna were cognizant of a plot among the Seneca and the “Totra” Indians to attack, with French support, the frontier settlements in Pennsylvania and Maryland…”. This is not only so you will have to get a paper copy for review.
4. You are definitely a part of the family! You should drop the speculation—Cousin!
I can’t suggest any new strategy for researching your Richeys. I only have a few small points. I would try to deepen the research in Gibson county, IN, since certain basic facts are known there about your ancestor. I would try to build on and expand those facts. That means, I would try to locate precisely where he lived in Gibson by getting a copy of deeds or other land records that can tell you who his neighbor were and the names of possible relatives. As well, I would search the estate records. If you are successful with these basis record groups, then the results may give you a key to which state to look into prior to Indiana–??VA, PA, MD, KY etc. You are in a favorable situation in Gibson, because several different trails of “Blackfoot” are in that area in the 19 century: documents show that
1. There were Tutelos at Prophet’s town in 1809, about 100 miles upriver on the Wabash
2. That some VA/NC mixed Saponi peoples come into Gibson after 1830. Some of these people merged with others from Tenn. to establish a mixed settlement called “Lyles Station” (1860s) Which was about 5 mile west of Princeton. Here you have the surname Chavis etc. Today several people from Gibson and Pike claim Blackfoot ancestry in their families.
3. That a church named Blackfoot is close by
Also, I just recently found a reference that suggest that Western Dakotas were on the upper Wabash after the 1812 war.
So, it is theoretically possible your ancestor may have had contact (accidental or by design) with one of these lines. Only a more thorough examination of the records and oral history can tell for sure.
Now, I have a few questions. What were the various spellings of your ggfather, given name – Hoten Richey? Was it ever written Powhatan? Or Hottan.or Hoton, etc?. Is Hoten a common name in your family. How have you ancestors explained the name Hoten? What region or county did the Richeys come from in Kentucky? Was the Census your referred to above for 1840 or 1850? I notice a lot of Richeys living just across the Wabash river in Wabash and Richland counties, Illinois. Have you looked there?
Bess Veney
wow.
Alot of info to digest and make sense of.
Maybe ill looka this again soon, to make more sense of it all.
a few notes on the ton of data above:
forgive me if i just cut and paste:
Geographical origin from the south is the key to the blackfoot (ID = identification), which is devoid of alot of tribal representation of the historic groups who occupied the vast area. in virginia for instance, there were about 32 groups under powhatan, now there are 7 recognized as being extant (however there are several indian descent families who are not organized and therefore not recognized as being a tribal representation). Additionally, The mass area west of the piedmont into W. virginia is often referred to as “poorly known”. Obviously people lived here, but records of their organization are scant. the same goes for most of NC – small vestiges of many tribal entities.
I agree, there is some material with blackfoot docs that predate the late 1800s, however there is not a designation for the “blackfoot” as a larger group (ie: the Powhatan, the Saponi, the Monancan etc). If the Blackfoot in MD are Tutelo in origin – this is a wonderful addition to our search. However, we once again need to tread carefully. The “mass” recognition of Blackfoot ancestory may only have be a very small root at this locale.
Indeed. I would also argue that neither can one remote town in MD.
As stated before, the western indian presence here is nill and not the root of this material. I would also add that the popularity of western icons is not the root either, but an additive.
We have Sappony in the same location as a blackfoot town.
the references cited make many note to Conoys, Tutero, Seneca etc in the time of mid 1700’s. When does the Blackfoot Town appear first as a place name?
<>
This is a very good point, that has come up before. I think this town in DE / MD is one of the best sources to come to light yet. Especially the reference by the elderly gentlman recorded by the ethnographer in the 1940’s. However, how do we get Blackfoot? We all know the “sapa / black” business. It is interesting that none(?) of the Tutelos descendants at Six nations or Tuscarora have an oral history of this term – or records of this designation for the Tutelo. Additionally, it is interesting that the Sappony in person co. and saponi in Halifax do not have this reference or oral history. Only the people who are dispersed from their tribal homelands. What does that mean?
How do the E. Blackfoot come to be a tribal identity? Usually it works the other way. Lots of historic references (because of interaction) to eastern indian groups who are small now and not much heard of through the late 1800s on. How do we end up with more queries now and oral history now and such a huge migration to present day locations of all these people who ID themselves as blackfoot. Why arent they Conoys or Massawomacks?
Im still havin a hard time with the translation on Sissapaha and all to present day memory of blackfoot. If we were to believe Specks investigations through the eastern seaboard, they’d be the only indians who knew who they were at the turn of century. (of course some new vaguely, but most deferred to his identification, along with others like Mooney.) If this is the case, The indians in NC would all be named for their counties, and the Upper Mattaponi would be still the Adamstown indians. If the translation biz was on the go, i wished someone would have shown more interest and recorded the rest of the language (like the bible).
<<1. The Saponi/Tutelo Indians who lived about Indian River were responsible for name "Blackfoot Indians" mentioned by Hitchens.
2. Because they lived there, the “Blackfoot Indians” gave their name to an Indian town located along Pepper creek, a tributary of Indian River, which later became known as Blackfoot Town. Blackfoot Town is the result of contact with the Blackfoot Indians not vice verse.>>
Im just gonna be the devils advocate. I always think we need more indians.
Why were just the Tutelo responsible for the name? what about the seneca (a previous tribal reference to blackfeet on this board) or the Nanticokes living there? what about the other indians represented? Hitchens mentions the report of the informant. does the informant trace his descendancy to the town and/or later documentation of a tribe? (like these folks here are Powhatan, but actually they are Wiccomomicos, to be exact – per the dept. of ethnology) Did the indians name their town, or did the Europeans? that may be important to uncover – since there are no references to the “tribe” of the blackfeet in the historical documents prior to (???) when the town recieves its name. We know the tutelos are there. we know the senecas, the indian river groups, the nanticokes etc, are there. when do we know the “blackfeet” are there. Or do the blackfeet never arrive as a identity group – only the town of blackfoot. once again, how does and when does it get its name? it sure would be convienent if we had more blackfeet names in VA and NC.
As a parting shot, let me just say that i am throughly impressed by all of the hard work that goes into this board. you all are some super people. Also, I d like to make sure that everyone knows im not trying to disprove anyones claim to ancestory – i believe “blackfoot” to be an underesearched cultural marker for southeastern indian descendancy. I just like to challenge broad concepts with a historical and cultural background. Hey just for fun, anyone ever hear of any references to “Rockahoc”?
Bess,
thanks. as for the name “Hoten” Richey — it was the name given to my great grandpa as a middle name — Jeffrey Hoten Richey (1852-1926) and also his youngest son, Hoten Richey (b. 1890s? in IT Chickasaw Nation – d. 1960s? near Carnegie, Ok exact years not memorized, but I remember the decades). So it was a family name for 2 generations. So no, I’ve never seen it spelled or pronounced any other way. Wish I could say “yes” to that but I can’t.
A man born in 1819 whose wife’s maiden name was Wayland (Waylands were iin Arkansas very early, and came there from NC/SC to Va to Ar) about 1800 — Jeffs mother was born in Arkansas. Maybe the Waylands had something to dowith that name choice.
According to grandma’s (Loney Richey Hawkins, 1883-1963) birth certificate, it states her father Jeffrey H. Richey was born in Powhattan (sp?), Arkansas. According to census records, Jeffrey’s father (Joseph E. Richey 1819-1852) was born in Gibson County, Indiana. Joseph’s father was John Richey, according to census records was b. 1797 moved to Indiana before 1817 when he is recorded as marrying Mary (Polly) Wood in Indiana in “Early Indiana Marriages”. You are right — he was probably a child when he moved to Indiana so I need to find his parents on census records of 1810 as he’s not livin with them in 1820.
They left Indiana — we know the year — in 1846. As I said they arrived there sometime between 1797 and 1817. My best evidence we are Indian are photographs of our family. Look at us and you know, but records are sparse.
vance
Vance – you havin problem editting too?
anyway, sorry for the space – but for whatever reason my previous post lost its context of quotes. i’m trying again because i cant edit!(?)
itconani said:
wow.
Alot of info to digest and make sense of.
Maybe ill looka this again soon, to make more sense of it all.
a few notes on the ton of data above:
forgive me if i just cut and paste:
zzzzzz”a1) What did you mean by “The geographical origin is the key, an area devoid of some important tribal representation.” zzzzzzz
Geographical origin from the south is the key to the blackfoot (ID = identification), which is devoid of alot of tribal representation of the historic groups who occupied the vast area. in virginia for instance, there were about 32 groups under powhatan, now there are 7 recognized as being extant (however there are several indian descent families who are not organized and therefore not recognized as being a tribal representation). Additionally, The mass area west of the piedmont into W. virginia is often referred to as “poorly known”. Obviously people lived here, but records of their organization are scant. the same goes for most of NC – small vestiges of many tribal entities.
zzzzb1) I think there is some evidence that the name predates the dispersal.zzz
I agree, there is some material with blackfoot docs that predate the late 1800s, however there is not a designation for the “blackfoot” as a larger group (ie: the Powhatan, the Saponi, the Monancan etc). If the Blackfoot in MD are Tutelo in origin – this is a wonderful addition to our search. However, we once again need to tread carefully. The “mass” recognition of Blackfoot ancestory may only have be a very small root at this locale.
zzzzzzzz”Their presence cannot account for the wide spread existence of the Blackfoot ID in the Southeast”zzzzzzzzzz
Indeed. I would also argue that neither can one remote town in MD.
As stated before, the western indian presence here is nill and not the root of this material. I would also add that the popularity of western icons is not the root either, but an additive.
We have Sappony in the same location as a blackfoot town.
the references cited make many note to Conoys, Tutero, Seneca etc in the time of mid 1700’s. When does the Blackfoot Town appear first as a place name?
zzzzzzzzzz”2. Did this word “Blackfoot” originate as English translation of “Saponi” or was it as a result of something else. I did see a reference where someone said it was because of a method of farming.”zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
This is a very good point, that has come up before. I think this town in DE / MD is one of the best sources to come to light yet. Especially the reference by the elderly gentlman recorded by the ethnographer in the 1940’s. However, how do we get Blackfoot? We all know the “sapa / black” business. It is interesting that none(?) of the Tutelos descendants at Six nations or Tuscarora have an oral history of this term – or records of this designation for the Tutelo. Additionally, it is interesting that the Sappony in person co. and saponi in Halifax do not have this reference or oral history. Only the people who are dispersed from their tribal homelands. What does that mean?
How do the E. Blackfoot come to be a tribal identity? Usually it works the other way. Lots of historic references (because of interaction) to eastern indian groups who are small now and not much heard of through the late 1800s on. How do we end up with more queries now and oral history now and such a huge migration to present day locations of all these people who ID themselves as blackfoot. Why arent they Conoys or Massawomacks?
Im still havin a hard time with the translation on Sissapaha and all to present day memory of blackfoot. If we were to believe Specks investigations through the eastern seaboard, they’d be the only indians who knew who they were at the turn of century. (of course some new vaguely, but most deferred to his identification, along with others like Mooney.) If this is the case, The indians in NC would all be named for their counties, and the Upper Mattaponi would be still the Adamstown indians. If the translation biz was on the go, i wished someone would have shown more interest and recorded the rest of the language (like the bible).
zzzzzzzzzzzz”1. The Saponi/Tutelo Indians who lived about Indian River were responsible for name “Blackfoot Indians” mentioned by Hitchens.
2. Because they lived there, the “Blackfoot Indians” gave their name to an Indian town located along Pepper creek, a tributary of Indian River, which later became known as Blackfoot Town. Blackfoot Town is the result of contact with the Blackfoot Indians not vice verse.”zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Im just gonna be the devils advocate. I always think we need more indians.
Why were just the Tutelo responsible for the name? what about the seneca (a previous tribal reference to blackfeet on this board) or the Nanticokes living there? what about the other indians represented? Hitchens mentions the report of the informant. does the informant trace his descendancy to the town and/or later documentation of a tribe? (like these folks here are Powhatan, but actually they are Wiccomomicos, to be exact – per the dept. of ethnology) Did the indians name their town, or did the Europeans? that may be important to uncover – since there are no references to the “tribe” of the blackfeet in the historical documents prior to (???) when the town recieves its name. We know the tutelos are there. we know the senecas, the indian river groups, the nanticokes etc, are there. when do we know the “blackfeet” are there. Or do the blackfeet never arrive as a identity group – only the town of blackfoot. once again, how does and when does it get its name? it sure would be convienent if we had more blackfeet names in VA and NC.
As a parting shot, let me just say that i am throughly impressed by all of the hard work that goes into this board. you all are some super people. Also, I d like to make sure that everyone knows im not trying to disprove anyones claim to ancestory – i believe “blackfoot” to be an underesearched cultural marker for southeastern indian descendancy. I just like to challenge broad concepts with a historical and cultural background. Hey just for fun, anyone ever hear of any references to “Rockahoc”?
You bring up a lot of good points which I want to take time with later, but I do want to jump in quick regarding your statement about their being no Person County or Haliwa people with the Blackfoot ID, signifying there are only people who migrated out with this ID.
My husband has Brunwick county cousins, with the same lines known to be NDN, who have carried this ID for generations (so he’s a Blackfoot, too!) There are three visible people I know of in, or associated with the OBSN, who have this ID in their families, whether they give it any credence or not. I’ve come across MANY people who have always lived in NC/VA who carry this ID. They fit into the naming patterns the same as the rest. I’m also thinking of another individual who I believe derives near the Lumbee area, who has this ID.
I heard of some vociferous ridicule of the Blackfoot ID from someone I was told was Haliwa, which makes me highly suspicious that it IS something that HAS been carried there.
Linda,
I was looking over some material for my Vineys/Veneys in Lancaster county, Pa and recalled some thing I saw earlier on line about the Ulms. So I checked the Ulms and found that the Ulms were in Lancaster County very early, in fact at the same time that the Tutelo/Totras lived there in the early part of the 1700s. The online search showed that Mathias Ulm, apparently the father of your John Ulm, was born in Earl Twp, Lancaster county, Pa in 1747. This is about the same time that the Tutelo/Totras, Senecas, Shawnee and others plotted their uprising in the Indian river MD/DE border area. Could there be a connection?
It turns out that a possible collateral line of my Vineys were living in Lancaster County somewhat later. A John Viney, described as a “free Negro”, resided there in 1810. In another record his birth is listed as 1775. In 1820 he was living in Lancaster City Boro about equal distant from Earl Twp., where the Ulms resided, and Conoy town on the Susquehanna River. Im not sure if Canoy town had been abandoned at that time. I have no oral history on this line, but I know there are two lines of Veney/Vineys (resident of Kentucky and Va) that say they are of Blackfoot Indian ancestry. Would you keep and eye open for anything on the Vineys in that area. Do you know anything about the Ulms when they lived in Lancaster? Thanks.
Bess.
The Ulms are very well documented, from Mathias on. He married Mary Magdelena Booshar. I’ve always considered a name like that to be pretty conclusively European, but I must say, I heard from a lady last week with Blackfoot ID’d family from VA, WV and TN with the names Byrd, Jeffers and Borshaer! I know there are some Borshaer’s who landed in VA, so perhaps there’s no (American) connection with my Booshar’s, but it still raises a question.
The Booshar’s are interesting. They landed here in 1713, the year the NC Tuscarora were defeated and driven from their lands, coincidentally opening it’s pine forests for exploitation as British naval supplies. The Palatinates, which my Booshar’s were part of, were brought over to make turpentine from pine tree on the west bank fo the Hudson. Wrong kind of pines. The project was a failure, so they were left to starve. They would have if not for the local Indians who fed them through their second winter.
The Palatinates had another problem with the British seizing their children and bounding them out as indentured servants. They pushed into PA in the 1740’s. The southeastern Indians were also experiencing the same problem with their children being bound out. So these two groups would have been meeting up in PA with several things in common.
Mathias moved to Berkeley, WV and married a lady named Naomi. His family is noticeably under-documented compared to the rest of the Ulms in that time and place. His son John moved to Ross, Ohio, where he married Elizabeth Smith. They moved to Wabash County, IL.
Didn’t you say you had family near there?
I think the interesting section here might be that the individuals discussed may currently have ties to the OBSN. Part of the challenge, as has been discussed, is the documentation struggles for the above mention group. Doubt does not exist for me to the indianess of those from VA/NC claiming heritage of blackfoot. However, the members of the Hollister and Flat River bunch do not claim this lineage with a Blackfoot ID. While some fringe members may have this ID within their family, those who are enrolled have always gone into other listings as their documents (other tribes, like pohick nansemond, saponny, etc). Part of the divide has been based around terms that use anything “black”(foot, feet, feather,)” in description associated with indianess in NC. The reason of course is quite unfortunate, but none the less, exists.
Once again, many feel that this designation was created to associate a marriage of two cultures, both of which suffered in the area of civil rights, and one of which carried a worse stigma than the other. As liberties were achieved or offered there was a definate break as far as how “organized” indians were going to be represented to the white majority.
This format of course bears little reasoning for “white” blackfeet. It has been my impression over the years, that there simply are more “white” cherokees than “white” blackfeet in areas where there were no Cherokees or Blackfeet. While Cherokee heritage may be vogue, I feel the Blackfoot ID is a definate cultural marker in areas with huge amounts of “extinct” tribes (undocumented as extant descendancy into this century) , regardless of current racial appearance. But, just like “dominickers” “red bones” and other terms used in the past to desrcibe groups of triracial / biracial orgin with long historic ties to geographical areas, Blackfoot descendancy does not, has not, and has ever equalled a group designated as such, self identified as such, and organized into a historically documented group of Saponis or anyone else. While “blackfeet” or “red bones” may be indian descended, they do not represent a tribe by that name. If they did, then the documents of history would be littered with references and researchers could easily link historic names to current “isolate” communites of “blackfeet”. Appearances of Blackfoot descendants known as such in the historic periods are further examples of marginilization, detribalization, and refusal to give up an indian identity. The fact that so much research has been done for area groups should speak for itself. Researching back to geographical areas, migration roots, family lines that connect, muttled listings like FPC, etc can lead many of the “blackfoot” people together, but will not lead them to the blackfeet.
I think this marker needs to be seen for what it is, regardless of blackfoot churches in missouri, blackfoot town in DE, Blackfoot / cherokee oral histories. by spending so much time looking for the marker, the designation that created the marker may be missed.
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